[Movie/TV/Comic] Marvel Cinematic Universe: A place to talk all things Marvel

[Crillam]

It's literally the exact same character. Not an alternate universe version.

If it is the same Kingpin as the netflix series he is acting a bit weird. He would have split Eleanor head in half in his office once she threatend him, not let her go. Also I understand that the outfit he wore is from a comics issue. However in the NF series he was always wearing the finest suits etc. So until Feige says otherwise we just don't know if it is the same Kingpin or a new one.

[Egomaniac]

Again, i literally, never said he is a mutant, a super enhanced being, someone with super serum, or any other shenanigans.

I merely saying he is not just a normal human, no normal human can do what he do, and not every human can train and be like him, period. For something to be "normal" should be on the grasp of every normal human.

Big issue is how everyone is treating things in duality, he is either super or magically empowered or is average joe.

Again, you're the only person who thinks "Peak Human" means "Average Joe". Kingpin is not an Average Joe...he's Peak Human. That's the highest a human being can go before crossing the line into Superhuman.

[Kelimbror]

I'm going to step in as an outside observer and say you all look pretty silly with whatever 'intellectual arguments' you have regarding comic book character interpretation, power, and portrayal.

Semanticircle-jerk. If the term didn't exist before today, I'm coining it now. And like...who cares my dudes? Hawkeye was a solid show, Kingpin and Daredevil are back with stellar casting, and we get more of the Marvel success we've enjoyed over the last decade. As a great man, Michael Scott , once said....it's a "win, win, win".

[Orby]

also when did people start hating on 90's Marvel.... man is this one of those social media trends of 'it was never good' realisations people have. It was always good.

Except the late 90's late 90's Marvel was horrible. But I loved Early 90's Marvel, one of my favourite period with Spider-Man and X-Men.

[Egomaniac]

I'm going to step in as an outside observer and say you all look pretty silly with whatever 'intellectual arguments' you have regarding comic book character interpretation, power, and portrayal.

Semanticircle-jerk. If the term didn't exist before today, I'm coining it now. And like...who cares my dudes? Hawkeye was a solid show, Kingpin and Daredevil are back with stellar casting, and we get more of the Marvel success we've enjoyed over the last decade. As a great man, Michael Scott , once said....it's a "win, win, win".

Why do you care what we choose to debate? People debate "silly stuff" all the time. If it doesn't matter to you, just keep scrolling.

[Kelimbror]

Why do you care what we choose to debate? People debate "silly stuff" all the time. If it doesn't matter to you, just keep scrolling.

Hrm. Should I applaud your efforts to embody your name or simply dismiss your raging ignorance as a waste of time. Idk. If you want to argue semantics, which by definition isn't what you are trying to do, you should crack out some ancient etymology tomes and really dig in to what in the world they meant when they 'called him' KING PIN?!?

Otherwise, you're just dancing around a rotting piece of word-fruit like gnats that came back early due to global warming. I've provided the cider-vinegar for you if you want to see yourself to greener pastures and actual knowledge from the vine.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

also when did people start hating on 90's Marvel.... man is this one of those social media trends of 'it was never good' realisations people have. It was always good.

Except the late 90's late 90's Marvel was horrible. But I loved Early 90's Marvel, one of my favourite period with Spider-Man and X-Men.

people started hating on 90's marvel in the 90's when they went bankrupt (1996) because people hated alot of what they were putting out leading to them selling movie right's and then the ultimate's experiment in the 2000's.

[SavoirFaire]

Hrm. Should I applaud your efforts to embody your name or simply dismiss your raging ignorance as a waste of time. Idk. If you want to argue semantics, which by definition isn't what you are trying to do, you should crack out some ancient etymology tomes and really dig in to what in the world they meant when they 'called him' KING PIN?!?

Otherwise, you're just dancing around a rotting piece of word-fruit like gnats that came back early due to global warming. I've provided the cider-vinegar for you if you want to see yourself to greener pastures and actual knowledge from the vine.

It’s the imperfect balance on the style of message boards. On Reddit you could simply collapse the nonsense tangents and move on. Here you have to wade through the detritus until it clears.

The flip side is that this board style allows critical back and forth on a subject. It’s really hard to go into, say, a Reddit marvel thread and be critical of a show without being down voted into oblivion.

So until the perfect medium is created we have to scroll past the usual suspects on their usual tangents, and eventually they either get tired, declare victory, or new “news” enters the thread. Such is the life of the MMO-C forums.

[Egomaniac]

Hrm. Should I applaud your efforts to embody your name or simply dismiss your raging ignorance as a waste of time. Idk. If you want to argue semantics, which by definition isn't what you are trying to do, you should crack out some ancient etymology tomes and really dig in to what in the world they meant when they 'called him' KING PIN?!?

Otherwise, you're just dancing around a rotting piece of word-fruit like gnats that came back early due to global warming. I've provided the cider-vinegar for you if you want to see yourself to greener pastures and actual knowledge from the vine.

Again, you can just leave the thread if the current subject of discussion does not appeal to you. No need to add pointless interjections about how you don't care about the subject matter. You'll find a great deal of threads on this site that will be discussing subject matter you do not care about. A person would find himself swamped if he were to go into every one of those threads and call out people for discussing something that has no value to himself.

[Ivanstone]

Except the late 90's late 90's Marvel was horrible. But I loved Early 90's Marvel, one of my favourite period with Spider-Man and X-Men.

Early 90s Marvel drove me away from Superhero comics. I didn't pick up another Marvel comic till Ultimate Spider-man came out.

[PrimiOne]

Early 90s Marvel drove me away from Superhero comics. I didn't pick up another Marvel comic till Ultimate Spider-man came out.

90s drove many ( I woul say ...most) people away from comics. I know so so many readers that abandoned the superhero genre in the decade and although my personal experience can not be extrapolated to any significant data the numbers are there : an abyss that threatened to engulf both Marvel and DC.

There's been many theories about the reasons and we are probably talking multiple factors with one key being the explosion of consoles ( so blame Sega, Sony and Nintendo) and other forms of entertaiment ( that already existed in the 80's but not on this scale) and a change of demographics ( people use to be surprised that current Marvel readers are almost 50/50 male/female) but the truth is 90's is a age of fundamental creative crisis for Marvel, an age where you have already told the same stories over and over ...and over again and told the same way ( yeah please tell the Nth time Vulture show up in the city and Spiderman kick his feathery ass). It is a full decade so, obviously, there's stuff that can be salvaged but as a general critic: a black hole that could have eaten everything.

In my personal situation 90's coincided with my teenhood ( I don't need to tell what a teen is interested in) so came the end of the decade I was kind of done with comics , I have a "That's for kids...I'm a adult now" mindset.

And then at the start of the millenium I was in a party and met a guy who owned a comic book store. We were talking about my past interest and how 3 decades ( 60s-80s) seem to be the maximum period for reciclyng stories and using the same narrative mechanisms. I perfectly remember him (still a close friend) smiling and saying:"I have something for you". The next week he borrowed me 3 volumes:"Planetary","The Authority" and "Transmetropolitan".

The shock was brutal and unexpected.

This got nothing to do with anything I read during my childhood.Nothing. This was new, this was imaginative, adult, exciting.... this was a rollercoaster that ( as opposed to the way stories were told in marvel) made you clueless about the next step. This was brave enough to subvert the very rules of the genre and when needed shit on them ( Ellis always had an anarchist mind). The brutal and merciless dissection of the Fantastic Four made me have one thing clear: there's a creative shockwave that is changing everything.

Lucky for us Marvel was smart ( I don't know if this is the right term...they really had no other option) to understand the shift in mentality and ride on it instead of opposing so we enter the age of the Marvel architects and comics lose the naiveness of past decades. The best example in this transtition is the polemic ( always polemic) Grant Morrison. For some the savior of the X-Men...for others the one that hopelessly ruined them. I belong to the former group: even to this day "New X-Men" is one of my favourites series ever (let's forget the Xorn -Magneto metamorphosis because that was not Morrison) mostly because the "New" was not just a label you put to sell more...no, it was actually new. People like or not: this was not just adequate...it was necessary.

Why this shift happened? Well, death danger usually tend to make people change but this just explains why people want to change ...the real question is how and from my perspective the how has a name:Watchmen.

I had a proffesor that used to tell us art is like a mountain. There's mountains so unfathomably big that you can not see the scale when you are at the base: you just see a big rock but to see the real size , to see the peak , you need to take distance and there's art so revolutionary that work this way , that can not truly be understood until time pass and you can see the influence and how it changed everything.

Watchmen is , in comics , this behemoth.

Obviously the most influential work is the one that created everyting ( so Golden and Silver Age) but in the modern age no other piece can be compared to the repercussion of Moore's work. Watchmen is a dagger stabbed to the heart of the genre, a dagger that creates a wave that takes a decade to reach everyone ( as I was saying: you need to take distance from the base of the mountain) but once it has you can no longer ignore the questions and the paradoxes it raises. Like "Don quixote" , a chivalry book that pretends to end all the chivalry books and in that process creates a new concept ( the novel) Watchmen is for superhero genre the same: a superhero comics that aims to kill every superhero comics and in the process creates something new and different.

Once the shockwave has made the pillars tremble superhero comics can no longer be told with the innocence of the Silver Age ( wich was perfect for that Age...but that has an expiration date) and comics are forced to change: this is a new millenium and on along Moore himself we got the Ellis,Morrison, Johns,Bendis....that become the flagships of the new comic.

[Endus]

Why this shift happened? Well, death danger usually tend to make people change but this just explains why people want to change ...the real question is how and from my perspective the how has a name:Watchmen.

I had a proffesor that used to tell us art is like a mountain. There's mountains so unfathomably big that you can not see the scale when you are at the base: you just see a big rock but to see the real size , to see the peak , you need to take distance and there's art so revolutionary that work this way , that can not truly be understood until time pass and you can see the influence and how it changed everything.

Watchmen is , in comics , this behemoth.

Obviously the most influential work is the one that created everyting ( so Golden and Silver Age) but in the modern age no other piece can be compared to the repercussion of Moore's work. Watchmen is a dagger stabbed to the heart of the genre, a dagger that creates a wave that takes a decade to reach everyone ( as I was saying: you need to take distance from the base of the mountain) but once it has you can no longer ignore the questions and the paradoxes it raises. Like "Don quixote" , a chivalry book that pretends to end all the chivalry books and in that process creates a new concept ( the novel) Watchmen is for superhero genre the same: a superhero comics that aims to kill every superhero comics and in the process creates something new and different.

Once the shockwave has made the pillars tremble superhero comics can no longer be told with the innocence of the Silver Age ( wich was perfect for that Age...but that has an expiration date) and comics are forced to change: this is a new millenium and on along Moore himself we got the Ellis,Morrison, Johns,Bendis....that become the flagships of the new comic.

It's unfortunate that Moore is such an insufferable crank.
Watchmen is what you're saying, but I'd disagree that it "took a decade to reach everyone". It came out in '86-'87, but then you've got the 2009 film by Zak Snyder, which somehow went panel-for-shot and still somehow missed the entire fuckin' point. And that's not me bitching at the ending; I think pegging Doctor Manhattan as the scapegoat makes more sense than the alien squid, so sue me.

Like, people who argue over who the "hero" is. "No one". That's the fucking point of it. It's not about figuring out which perspective you find personally engaging; it's about recognizing all of them are self-serving and dysfunctional; that the nature of dysfunction is in their "superiority", itself.

[Syegfryed]

eta Current Marvel has a slew of very excellent books, mostly because they focus on story and the art is in service to that story. Both Thor and Immortal Hulk have been must-reads the last few years.

i wasn't giving much faith, but immortal hulk, venom and thor were indeed amazing.

Immortal hulk i think ended bad, but man, everything before that was excellent, fucking great story with horror elements with the best hulk incarnation i ever seen.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Saw 'No Way Home' 2 days ago and had no place else to really just speak about it so I wanted to post a bit here about it:


I thought it was it great. By no means was it it "amazing" (lul Peter-3) but being that I grew up watching the Maguire films as well as being a huge fan of the TASM film series (yes... even TASM 2) I was satisfied with some of the scenes were Maguire and Garfield got some closures. Maguire catching up with Doc Ock and Garfield saving MJ from falling were particular good for me.

Green Goblin absolutely whooping Tom Holland's ass was fucking great. Probably the highlight of the movie for me.


Now, among the million leaks for 'No Way Home' in the many months leading up to its release... the guy who leaked 'Infinity War' and 'Endgame' got like 90% of them right. So that leads me to believe all of the leaks he made about the MCU's future could also be very close to true.

[JDL49]

Finished Hawkeye. Enjoyed it more than I anticipated!

I was happy to see Vincent D'Onofreio return to play Kingpin, so it kind of saddened me that he was apperantly killed at the end of episode 6. Here's hoping for that being a fake-out.

On another note, why was someone playing Ant-man in the Rogers musical? At first, I thought that was the result of someone messing with reality, but the commemorative plaque doesn't mention him. Creative liberty by the director of the musical?

It was a joke played on Clint Barton by the writers.

[Shadowferal]

Early 90s Marvel drove me away from Superhero comics. I didn't pick up another Marvel comic till Ultimate Spider-man came out.

Had anyone told me "editor-in-chief" was a big deal I would have been skeptical. But the late 70s through the late 80s is called the "Jim Shooter era" and saw most of the best writing. And it showed.
Out of habit I stuck through the 90s but when I saw they were trying to rehab Sabertooth I gave up. The "Ultimates" they had then were embarrassing. And for every one half way decent new character created were several awful new ones. And punctuated by some of the worst artwork...

[Shadowferal]

Ultimate Spider-man was good for awhile, but yeah the rest of them were pretty terrible. That universe was pretty much "What If? All the heroes were assholes?".

Ultimate Luke Cage was among the worst. Worked out of stripper club, occasionally "servicing" the ladies, every third word out of his mouth was an expletive. Normally I'd provide a panel for an example but I just can't do it. It was bad. The "Ultimate" stereotype.

[Orange Joe]

Saw 'No Way Home' 2 days ago and had no place else to really just speak about it so I wanted to post a bit here about it

Were your eyes closed?

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-3-No-Way-Home

[Lanrefni]

Eternals hits D+ tomorrow apparently.

Already on the torrent sites in 10 bit 4k,so it apparently leaked early.

[Shadowferal]

Pirating crap is its own punishment.