1. #12221
    I know I’m probably reaching, but the line about Ronin’s activities during the auction about the “head of organized crime”…

  2. #12222
    I really liked the first 2 episodes of Hawkeye. It's for sure not a cosmic adventure, but I hadn't expected one, which is why I wasn't sure if I'd like it so much.
    What I liked is the almost subdued tone of the story while following Clint, like it was pointing out that he doesn't like making a fuzz, not about himself, not about anything, while being a bit funnier, louder while following Kate. It's also very christmas without being obnoxious about it (to me "obnoxious" would mean a 'Home alone' style of Christmas vibe ^^). I also thought a few times that I thought they'd crack a joke to lighten the mood in some situations, but there was no joke. A bit of lightheartedness and consolation for Clint at times with his kids, but no situations where the mood got a bit darker and someone has to yell something funny for distraction.
    The funniest bit are the tracksuit guys so far, but even they are shown as dangerous on some level. I also liked that the story meandered a bit and showed a lot more of the day to day life of non-superhero people. And dogs!
    The musical is hilarious.

    I'm not sure if they'll actually show all of the New York underworld in this, because I'm under the impression they already introduced so many characters that it might get a little crowded if they have even more.
    Although I wouldn't be averse to King Pin appearing maybe once, to show there's still a bigger fish and other players that haven't been showing their hand just yet.

  3. #12223
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Hawkeye maybe not the most exciting superhero, but Steinfeld do spice things up so it matches well. Laughed quite a few times during the two first episodes, fun stuff.

    And the Tracksuit mafia, whats not to love.
    They were super clear from the outset that their main inspiration was Matt Fraction's run on Hawkeye in the comics, which was easily one of the best runs I've read in Marvel from the last 20 years; don't know where I'd put it in my top 5, but it's in there.

    It's an amazing run, visually and narratively, and the low stakes are a major selling point for it. They're obviously having to change things up (Kate was already established before Fraction's run), but the run-down Clint Barton just trying to get through another day dealing with low-rent gangster types is hilarious and I love it. I really think the complaints all come from people who haven't read that series and have no idea what the show is going for.

    I want to emphasize that this panel from early in the run (I think) is entirely unaltered; that censoring is exactly how it was printed;



    The whole run is like this. It's Clint being run down and beaten around.



  4. #12224
    Something just occured to me while watching a video about Hawkeye.
    In the musical Antman is in the battle of New York and as we all know, he wasn't... at least not originally in 2012. But he was actually there if you count Endgame and he may have been seen and recorded. Hawkeye might not know this or at least not count their 'timeheist'.
    I know that this could also just be a nod to the comics where Antman was part of the og line-up if I got that right, but... we have also seen some very accurate statements being made by some people concerning the exact actions and whereabouts of Avengers in the middle of a battle and Valentina even had a picture of Hawkeye in the Ronin suit, apparently right at the moment when he turned around to see Natasha, "Taskmaster" had all kinds of footage to learn from and so on. So maybe the musical is simply being accurate, because Antman was there. ^^

  5. #12225
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    They were super clear from the outset that their main inspiration was Matt Fraction's run on Hawkeye in the comics, which was easily one of the best runs I've read in Marvel from the last 20 years; don't know where I'd put it in my top 5, but it's in there.

    It's an amazing run, visually and narratively, and the low stakes are a major selling point for it. They're obviously having to change things up (Kate was already established before Fraction's run), but the run-down Clint Barton just trying to get through another day dealing with low-rent gangster types is hilarious and I love it. I really think the complaints all come from people who haven't read that series and have no idea what the show is going for.

    I want to emphasize that this panel from early in the run (I think) is entirely unaltered; that censoring is exactly how it was printed;



    The whole run is like this. It's Clint being run down and beaten around.

    Yeah, I've never read those comics, but I find the interaction between snoozing(read, I like it) Barton dealing with "everyday life" with Kate who is super eager to be a superhero to be a nice match up. I can see their "dad and daughter" relationship blossoming :P

    It was fun, I enjoyed it. I really dig how Marvel Studios is making these shows, giving some depth to this superhero universe. Or just to everyday family man, Barton aka Hawkeye

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by formerShandalay View Post
    (to me "obnoxious" would mean a 'Home alone' style of Christmas vibe ^^)
    I got that good christmas feeling because some of the music had a clear relation to the Home Alone theme :P
    - Everything that lives is designed to end. We are perpetually trapped in a never ending spiral of life and death. Is this a curse? Or some kind of punishment? I often think about the god who blessed us with this cryptic puzzle… and wonder if we’ll ever get the chance to kill him.

  6. #12226
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Yeah, I've never read those comics, but I find the interaction between snoozing(read, I like it) Barton dealing with "everyday life" with Kate who is super eager to be a superhero to be a nice match up. I can see their "dad and daughter" relationship blossoming :P

    It was fun, I enjoyed it. I really dig how Marvel Studios is making these shows, giving some depth to this superhero universe. Or just to everyday family man, Barton aka Hawkeye

    - - - Updated - - -


    I got that good christmas feeling because some of the music had a clear relation to the Home Alone theme :P
    Well yea, it did have a christmas feeling and of course it was everywhere, including in the music. Decorations, Clint saying merry christmas at the pharmacy, family stuff... even the 'charity event' was probably because of christmas, so it is everywhere, but... maybe I felt that way because there was no actual christmas hysteria? Like... people running around shouting, almost getting a nervous breakdown because they are too stressed out, I mean they even hint at a child getting lost in New York (Clint's younger son ) and still no one actually freaks out and starts screaming. If there's stress, it's not about christmas. I guess that's why I liked the christmas vibe in this case^^

  7. #12227
    Quote Originally Posted by formerShandalay View Post
    Well yea, it did have a christmas feeling and of course it was everywhere, including in the music. Decorations, Clint saying merry christmas at the pharmacy, family stuff... even the 'charity event' was probably because of christmas, so it is everywhere, but... maybe I felt that way because there was no actual christmas hysteria? Like... people running around shouting, almost getting a nervous breakdown because they are too stressed out, I mean they even hint at a child getting lost in New York (Clint's younger son ) and still no one actually freaks out and starts screaming. If there's stress, it's not about christmas. I guess that's why I liked the christmas vibe in this case^^
    Going into christmas time, I find the overall christmas theme nice for sure. To me the clear signs of christmas isn't the big shopping centres, big trees with decorations etc, but tunes from Home Alone, or watching Die Hard at 1st day of christmas. Small things that wakes up memories or emotions is the true christmas spirit for me, and listening to the music during that one scene gave me some of that

    And maybe this show will give me an extra sparkle this year. Marvel and christmas, what's not to love.
    - Everything that lives is designed to end. We are perpetually trapped in a never ending spiral of life and death. Is this a curse? Or some kind of punishment? I often think about the god who blessed us with this cryptic puzzle… and wonder if we’ll ever get the chance to kill him.

  8. #12228
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Going into christmas time, I find the overall christmas theme nice for sure. To me the clear signs of christmas isn't the big shopping centres, big trees with decorations etc, but tunes from Home Alone, or watching Die Hard at 1st day of christmas. Small things that wakes up memories or emotions is the true christmas spirit for me, and listening to the music during that one scene gave me some of that

    And maybe this show will give me an extra sparkle this year. Marvel and christmas, what's not to love.
    I love Die Hard for christmas too
    And yea, if this show continues with the christmas vibe as it did in the first two episodes, it's going to feature in my personal list of favourite christmas movies and shows in the future.

  9. #12229
    Quote Originally Posted by formerShandalay View Post
    So maybe the musical is simply being accurate, because Antman was there. ^^
    Antman wasn't there in this timeline.

  10. #12230
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    Antman wasn't there in this timeline.
    Him and the others being there was in Kang's script, so yea, they could simply always have been there, there just wasn't a camera on them in the og movie.

  11. #12231
    Quote Originally Posted by formerShandalay View Post
    Him and the others being there was in Kang's script, so yea, they could simply always have been there, there just wasn't a camera on them in the og movie.
    This is the timeline where he wasn't there, that was another timeline.

  12. #12232
    Quote Originally Posted by formerShandalay View Post
    Him and the others being there was in Kang's script, so yea, they could simply always have been there, there just wasn't a camera on them in the og movie.
    Just like there was no camera on Kate, yet she was there. Hell, they basically tell us they were always there in Loki when he whines about their time travel.

  13. #12233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Marvel intro with fanfare and I am biased.

    Hawkeye maybe not the most exciting superhero, but Steinfeld do spice things up so it matches well. Laughed quite a few times during the two first episodes, fun stuff.

    And the Tracksuit mafia, whats not to love.
    gotta be comfy when you do crime!

  14. #12234
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    i like when they put non-super humans against other non-super humans, so im digging this, gladly the comedy isn't over the top, but i must say that musical was so stupid, i knot it was on purpose but oh my god they forced to be cringe.

    Hopes high that everything leads to Kingpin with the netflix actor, chances are pretty good

  15. #12235
    Word is in two weeks there will be a (post-)credit scene for Hawkeye with someone… big.

  16. #12236
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Just like there was no camera on Kate, yet she was there. Hell, they basically tell us they were always there in Loki when he whines about their time travel.
    Exactly. No alternate timeline was created by the Avengers being there was kind of the point of that scene in the TVA court.

  17. #12237
    Quote Originally Posted by formerShandalay View Post
    Exactly. No alternate timeline was created by the Avengers being there was kind of the point of that scene in the TVA court.
    They explicitly state that the time travel in Endgame is operating on multiverse theory. Think about how time travel worked in Dragon Ball Z or X-Men the Animated series.

  18. #12238
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    They explicitly state that the time travel in Endgame is operating on multiverse theory. Think about how time travel worked in Dragon Ball Z or X-Men the Animated series.
    The time travel in the Avengers is within a single "universe".

    That time travel had potential to create branches, but returning the Stones after mostly prevented that (and the few exceptions, like the Loki variant we followed in the Loki show, had their branches pruned and thus aren't from any extant universe).

    Travel between universes is a separate thing from time travel in Marvel. You can do both, but time travel doesn't mean you're changing universes, and we know, canonically, that the time travel in Endgame does not cross to any other universe/timeline.

    As a simple explanation; at the "time" that time travel occurred, the TVA still existed and was actively pruning off any timeline branches but the "main Kang" timeline. That's why Loki got pruned. The events bringing about the Multiverse didn't happen until after Endgame's time travel, and we have a TVA agent explicitly tell us that the Endgame time travel didn't violate their "one timeline" rules.
    Last edited by Endus; 2021-11-26 at 09:10 PM.


  19. #12239
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The time travel in the Avengers is within a single "universe".

    That time travel had potential to create branches, but returning the Stones after mostly prevented that (and the few exceptions, like the Loki variant we followed in the Loki show, had their branches pruned and thus aren't from any extant universe).

    Travel between universes is a separate thing from time travel in Marvel. You can do both, but time travel doesn't mean you're changing universes, and we know, canonically, that the time travel in Endgame does not cross to any other universe/timeline.

    As a simple explanation; at the "time" that time travel occurred, the TVA still existed and was actively pruning off any timeline branches but the "main Kang" timeline. That's why Loki got pruned. The events bringing about the Multiverse didn't happen until after Endgame's time travel, and we have a TVA agent explicitly tell us that the Endgame time travel didn't violate their "one timeline" rules.
    That all falls apart because Thanos left his timeline to come to the main MCU Timeline and did not return, yet it did not change the current timeline. Even the only hole in multiverse theory in Endgame, Captain America waiting on the bench was explained by the Russos as him coming back to the main timeline at a different spot and time. If you took away from the TVA scene that the 'TVA agent explicitly tell us that the Endgame time travel didn't violate their "one timeline" rules. ' then you misread the scene entirely.

  20. #12240
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    That all falls apart because Thanos left his timeline to come to the main MCU Timeline and did not return, yet it did not change the current timeline. Even the only hole in multiverse theory in Endgame, Captain America waiting on the bench was explained by the Russos as him coming back to the main timeline at a different spot and time. If you took away from the TVA scene that the 'TVA agent explicitly tell us that the Endgame time travel didn't violate their "one timeline" rules. ' then you misread the scene entirely.
    It’s literally what’s said in the scene. You ignoring the actual dialogue is you misreading the scene. And the fourth snap took care of the branched Thanos. Which always happened in the sacred timeline.
    Last edited by Vegas82; 2021-11-26 at 10:26 PM.

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