1. #13481
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Again, comic Earth-616 =|= MCU Earth-616. Different mediums. Different multiverses. How many times do we have to repeat it 'till you get it?!
    Repetition doesn't make untrue statements true.

    The universe numbers have always covered all​ marvel properties; comics, cartoons, games, live-action films. The MCU is canonically Earth-199999.


  2. #13482
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    The last thing I watched was Loki, I did one episode of What If? and haven't done any Marvel since then. No Shang Chi, no Black Widow, no NWH or MoM, I'm just exhausted of the whole universe.
    do you think that's because there's just too much of it or is it coming down off the Endgame highpoint which, let's face it, they could've stopped the MCU right then and there. or is it because at the moment they seem to lack direction a bit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Repetition doesn't make untrue statements true.

    The universe numbers have always covered all​ marvel properties; comics, cartoons, games, live-action films. The MCU is canonically Earth-199999.
    when was the MCU earth referred to as Earth-19999 in the comics? or the games? it is perfectly fine for there to be two Earth-616's - one in the comic universe, which has absolutely no bearing on anything in the cinematic universe, and one in the cinematic universe, which has absolutely no bearing on anything in the comic universe. Just because some intern wrote that it was Earth-19999 in some book that was published before they even conceived of doing the Multiverse doesn't make it so. it was definitively stated in the MoM movie that it was Earth-616

  3. #13483
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    when was the MCU earth referred to as Earth-19999 in the comics? or the games?
    https://www.marvel.com/comics/series..._z_update_2010

    Y'know, the canonical listing of all the universe identifiers.

    it is perfectly fine for there to be two Earth-616's - one in the comic universe, which has absolutely no bearing on anything in the cinematic universe, and one in the cinematic universe, which has absolutely no bearing on anything in the comic universe. Just because some intern wrote that it was Earth-19999 in some book that was published before they even conceived of doing the Multiverse doesn't make it so. it was definitively stated in the MoM movie that it was Earth-616
    They're separate multiverses, but multiverses and universes still follow their place in the same shared numbering system.

    I cannot grasp why people are so desperate to argue that there's two universe that are entirely distinct but also the same universe but not, when the far simpler answer is just that nobody in MoM has any reason to actually know the canonical numbers in the first place and the MCU has had an official numerical designation (Earth-199999) for more than a decade already. 616 has been tossed around in the MCU a few times before, but by people who had no way of knowing anything about the Multiverse proper and were just making stuff up for themselves; whatever numbering system they were using was not the canonical one, and thus using "616" is nothing but an easter egg, not a statement that they're somehow the same universe as the prime comics 'verse.
    Last edited by Endus; 2022-06-11 at 03:51 PM.


  4. #13484
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    https://www.marvel.com/comics/series..._z_update_2010

    Y'know, the canonical listing of all the universe identifiers.



    They're separate multiverses, but multiverses and universes still follow their place in the same shared numbering system.

    I cannot grasp why people are so desperate to argue that there's two universe that are entirely distinct but also the same universe but not, when the far simpler answer is just that nobody in MoM has any reason to actually know the canonical numbers in the first place and the MCU has had an official numerical designation (Earth-199999) for more than a decade already.
    thank you for proving my exact point. that book was written in 2010. by then 3 movies had come out, possibly 2 depending on when it came out. Now I know that they probably had plans for the Infinity Stones and Thanos to be the big bad but beyond that? they probably weren't thinking about the multiverse, definitely not at that stage anyway. which is why that book is outdated. that book is the ONLY Earth-199999 reference. even the MoM movie referred to it as Earth-616. so yeah if I have to choose between a book which was written about the MCU before they knew they would do the Multiverse or the direct quote from a movie as well as the direct quote from Kevin Feige then I am going to go with the direct quotes.

  5. #13485
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Just to start that whole argument off again lol

    MS. MARVEL STAR IMAN VELLANI DOESN’T BELIEVE THE MCU IS EARTH-616
    god dammit lol
    "People fear, not death, but having life taken from them. Many waste the life given to them, occupying themselves with things that do not matter. When the end comes, they say they did not have time enough to spend with loved ones, to fulfill dreams, to go on adventures they only talked about... But why should you fear death if you are happy with the life you have led, if you can look back on everything and say, 'Yes, I am content. It is enough.'" - Wynne ( Dragon Age: Origins.)

  6. #13486
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    DC is reportedly looking to again try to replicate the MCU formula though after the Discovery merger.
    I can't wait for 3 more Batman movies where we finally see the origin story of the Batman. We've never seen that before and it really has me excited. Plus the recasting of 3 new Batman actors, of course.

  7. #13487
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Multiverse of Madness hits D+ on the 22nd.
    My first reaction when reading this was: well it wasn't great but that's too low grade for it.

    Then I realized that you meant Disney+ (it could mean Discovery+ but MCU is on Disney+) and not the grade, silly me ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    I can't wait for 3 more Batman movies where we finally see the origin story of the Batman. We've never seen that before and it really has me excited. Plus the recasting of 3 new Batman actors, of course.
    Well, MCU managed to do 3 new Spiderman actors doing the Spiderman origin 3 times as I recall, and weirdly tie it all together

    I hope that DC doesn't try to fully replicate that

  8. #13488
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Well, MCU managed to do 3 new Spiderman actors doing the Spiderman origin 3 times as I recall
    Not quite. The MCU has 1 Spiderman. The other ones are Sony movies, and are only KINDA SORTA MAYBE part of the MCU through the Multiverse retroactively

  9. #13489
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Not quite. The MCU has 1 Spiderman. The other ones are Sony movies, and are only KINDA SORTA MAYBE part of the MCU through the Multiverse retroactively
    We could get into the fun of how the Spider-Verse and the Multiverse are . . . not the same thing.


  10. #13490
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    We could get into the fun of how the Spider-Verse and the Multiverse are . . . not the same thing.
    But is it Spiderverse-616 or Spiderverse-199999, that is the REAL question!

  11. #13491
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    I'm finally getting back into comics after a year away due to an accident and last night I finally decided to try Marvel Unlimited ... and it's fantastic! So many of the stories I missed in the aughts and 10s when I had stopped paying much attention that I'll be able to easily read now. Plus, I've already started catching up on the books that I stopped mid-run last year, Like The Mighty Valkyries. I can't believe I resisted this for so long, but these comics-reading apps are an absolute blessing to anyone that wants to read through the history of comics without having to actually buy all the books or omnibus's. I'll absolutely be firing up DC Universe Infinite this weekend, as well.

    I think I'm finally back to being much more interested in the actual books and far less interested in the cinematic versions.

  12. #13492
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    I'm finally getting back into comics after a year away due to an accident and last night I finally decided to try Marvel Unlimited ... and it's fantastic! So many of the stories I missed in the aughts and 10s when I had stopped paying much attention that I'll be able to easily read now. Plus, I've already started catching up on the books that I stopped mid-run last year, Like The Mighty Valkyries. I can't believe I resisted this for so long, but these comics-reading apps are an absolute blessing to anyone that wants to read through the history of comics without having to actually buy all the books or omnibus's. I'll absolutely be firing up DC Universe Infinite this weekend, as well.

    I think I'm finally back to being much more interested in the actual books and far less interested in the cinematic versions.
    I don't have a current sub, but I'll grab a 6-month or 1-year membership every so often. Marvel Unlimited's a fantastic service and I can't recommend it highly enough if you're into comics, especially if you're just getting into them now-ish rather than 30 years ago. The most-recent 6 months or so isn't readily available, but nearly everything else in the Marvel comics oeuvre is.


  13. #13493
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    do you think that's because there's just too much of it or is it coming down off the Endgame highpoint which, let's face it, they could've stopped the MCU right then and there. or is it because at the moment they seem to lack direction a bit?
    I hit the fatigue before Endgame myself, so it probably varies. Infinity War/ Endgame were these big epic things that were just kind of boring to me. A lot of the stuff seems to assume you're invested in it, rather than trying to get you invested in it, if that makes sense. Winter Soldier, Black Panther were probably my favs, but a lot of the movies are pretty mediocre.

    Given that Marvel Mediocre is still better than most other movies (entertainment wise) these days, but geez are they piling stuff on.
    "I only feel two things Gary, nothing, and nothingness."

  14. #13494
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    do you think that's because there's just too much of it or is it coming down off the Endgame highpoint which, let's face it, they could've stopped the MCU right then and there. or is it because at the moment they seem to lack direction a bit?
    I think it's because I view the MCU as about as deep as a puddle. And with the whole multiverse thing, it feels like that puddle is being stretched out even wider until the puddle is so shallow it's more of a dewy morning mist, ready to evaporate as soon as the sun is high enough in the sky. The MCU has a lot of width, but not much depth.

    Like, WandaVision is about the most depth I think we will ever see in the MCU, and that's a one season one-off. I guess I'd come around for a show like that again. But FatWS's naive look at racism and superheroes (it was going reasonably well until the last episode was just Sam Mackie admonishing politicians to "Do Better!"), and Loki's inability to delve deeper into that character beyond.....making other Lokis which were aspects of his personality and easily killable, and a brief hell-loop scenario with Sif, probably the least important major character in the Thor universe, because that's the fan cameo which would make fans go "OMG," doesn't give me much hope for the MCU being any deeper.

    I'm not saying the DCEU is any better, but I think I'm just done with comic book movies for awhile. There's so much good cinema out there that watching these movies seems like being too busy to watch Breaking Bad because your time is filled with 20 seasons of NCIS.

  15. #13495
    Over 9000! Kyphael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    I can't wait for 3 more Batman movies where we finally see the origin story of the Batman. We've never seen that before and it really has me excited. Plus the recasting of 3 new Batman actors, of course.
    Expect one of them to be Adam West re-created by CGI superimposed on a young actor of similar build of his 1966 physique.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    This is what, the third time they're trying now?
    Technically the second after the Snyder-verse flopped, but I don't blame you as we've technically already gotten a Suicide Squad reboot after only one movie.

  16. #13496
    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    Enjoyed the first episode quite a lot, though I felt the CGI with her power towards the end was a bit dodgy.
    To be fair, her powers are a bit non-live action-friendly. I believe one of the creators even had trouble trying to imagine how it would translate to live action and didn't put much faith in the idea.

    Edit: Translate to live action without looking goofy. Especially when she does something like go two-dimensional to slip past a door and the like.

    Of course this is a good run to test out how they should handle Reed Richards, so it won't be a total loss even if it does look ridiculous.
    Last edited by Infinity Cubed; 2022-06-12 at 02:59 PM.

  17. #13497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Svifnymr View Post
    I hit the fatigue before Endgame myself, so it probably varies. Infinity War/ Endgame were these big epic things that were just kind of boring to me. A lot of the stuff seems to assume you're invested in it, rather than trying to get you invested in it, if that makes sense. Winter Soldier, Black Panther were probably my favs, but a lot of the movies are pretty mediocre.

    Given that Marvel Mediocre is still better than most other movies (entertainment wise) these days, but geez are they piling stuff on.
    I had this image come across my Facebook feed today, it seemed appropriate to the conversation:


  18. #13498
    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    I had this image come across my Facebook feed today, it seemed appropriate to the conversation:

    It's more like going into New Game+. You start at the beginning again, but you have all this info and experience from previous things. That's all the MCU has done, go back to the Iron Man stage.

    Personally, I thought only the second half of Endgame was any good. First half was just boring (so boring one guy literally just left the cinema).

  19. #13499
    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    I had this image come across my Facebook feed today, it seemed appropriate to the conversation:

    If Marvel didn't lose there best characters to other companies you would have had the same discussion when that story ended.
    In the MCU franchise with Spiderman, X-men, Wolverine and F4 characters like the Guardians wouldn't even be included and Captain America, Iron Man would have been a side character
    Last edited by ati87; 2022-06-13 at 11:56 AM.

  20. #13500
    Some fatigue is perfectly understable given how a corporation like Disney works: the nature of the beast is maximizing profits so if you do X and it works you do X+1 and if that works you do X+2 and it goes ad inifinitum...the "Should we?" is not even a question and ,yeah , this creates a burn out risk but the future is unkown and what you do know is that the superhero fever is happening now , you ignore the trend of the viewer in this decade and the next so maybe you push too hard and burn your treasure but maybe the interest in the genre was gonna banish anyway in the next years and you lost your opportunity window.

    If you have a crystall ball Disney is interested in talking to you but if you don't they will take money NOW over some hypothetical decline TOMORROW.

    So you do an Iron Man movie an it does great in the box office and have a fabolous reception so you say:"Hey,it worked. I have more characters so let's do more movies"

    And they work too (Cpt. America,Thor), it's not spectacular success but they pull their own weight so you say:"Hey , it worked too... let's do a movie with all of them"

    And it works too, or to be precise "The Avengers" is an historic mega hit so you say :"Fuck it!! This is the mother vein.. let's do a movie every year"

    And it works too and movies cursed from the very inception like "Ant-Man" and "Guardians" are success so you say :" Jesus Christ....is there no end to this? Ok. Let's do SEVERAL movies a year".

    And it works too and movies that weren't aiming for that ( Marvel,Panther,No way Home) hit the billion impulsed by the Avengers momentun so you say:" I don't even know what more to do now...oh wait...the streaming".

    And it works too, you do the D+ shows and they work....

    So now we have reached the paroxism: next 8th July in barely 1.5 years Marvel Studios has pumped 6 movies and 7 shows. 6 x 2 + 7 x3 = 33 hours of production in barealy a year and a half. Let that sink for a bit.

    Do you remember the old franchises? Pirates of the Caribbean? Fast and Furious? James Bond? Forget about that this, is something different. This is not an IP in the traditional sense of the term. Disney made Marvel a genre , they are in a process of "genrification" where you have movies/shows of multiples themes but they all happen in that universe (E-616...sorry couldn't resist it lol) instead of ours.

    In this context (33 hours!!!) you need to understand that Disney is perfectly ok with you not seeing everything, there's absolutely no problem if you skip some of the content, there's no drama if you don't consume the 33 hours: Disney's problem is you skipping everying or most of it...that's the real issue.

    Sadly my crystall ball is opaque and can't see shit so how much is exactly too much I can't say but what I can say is: the numbers make a crystalline picture that we are not in the burnout phase yet. The box offices of Black Widow- Shang Chi- Eternals were obviously affected by the pandemic but still the "It's not just covid...on top of covid you have bad movies - Eternals - and people seem to be done with the MCU" argument flew over the room. That argument was ultimately blown away into pieces with the success of Now Way Home and MoM . Make movies of characters people love and they will go to the theatre and for the characters that they don't know ( because you are introducing) you are gonna have to accept this is how it works: absolutely no fucking one came out of the theatre amazed by the "First Avenger" or "Thor" nor there was long lines to see them.

    And yeah, someone mentioned it: you killed the end boss of Darks Souls and was intense and amazing and now you are starting Darks Souls II and it's not that intense. Logical. Maybe DSII will be a worst game than DSI ( maybe it's better) but what you should'nt expect is the final climax have the same tension as the introduction.....so wait for Secret Wars and we will see.

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