[Movie/TV/Comic] Marvel Cinematic Universe: A place to talk all things Marvel

[Immitis]

Regardless, Shang-Chi isn't really generating buzz or moving the mass like the old movies could.

isn't shang chi the first post covid movie not to have a massive drop in its second week?

[Endus]

Something someone pointed out to me - we saw a lot of Hawkeye with his kids in this trailer - but not with his wife.

Is it possible Hawkeye is now divorced, and has the kids for Christmas, and is literally sending them back to the farm once danger arises, so he can have more of a bachelor-esque series in NYC as seen in the Fraction run of Hawkeye?

He did do a lot of super-dark shit during the time his family was Snapped. Between that, and the understanding that grief and anger don't just vanish if the cause of them does; Clint isn't suddenly going to revert back to his old self now that his family's back. He may be keeping them at a distance because he feels unworthy, they may have pulled back because he's scary and/or needs some time to get over it.

Let's recall that he was actively trying to kill himself. First by throwing himself at enemy after enemy, hoping to get into a fight he couldn't handle, as Ronin, and finally, by fighting Nat to see who got to literally kill themselves to get the Soul Stone for the other. I get a strong impression that Nat was doing so because she knew she had the fewest ties; she'd come to terms with her demons and was okay with paying this price. Clint was just trying to make the hurting stop. And Nat knew that, which is why she wouldn't let him.

We'll have to wait and see the exact setup they give us, but I'll be surprised if it's a mentally-healthy Clint. I imagine this whole thing with Kate is going to be about Clint getting his head on straight, much like Fraction's run was.

[Immitis]

He did do a lot of super-dark shit during the time his family was Snapped. Between that, and the understanding that grief and anger don't just vanish if the cause of them does; Clint isn't suddenly going to revert back to his old self now that his family's back. He may be keeping them at a distance because he feels unworthy, they may have pulled back because he's scary and/or needs some time to get over it.

Let's recall that he was actively trying to kill himself. First by throwing himself at enemy after enemy, hoping to get into a fight he couldn't handle, as Ronin, and finally, by fighting Nat to see who got to literally kill themselves to get the Soul Stone for the other. I get a strong impression that Nat was doing so because she knew she had the fewest ties; she'd come to terms with her demons and was okay with paying this price. Clint was just trying to make the hurting stop. And Nat knew that, which is why she wouldn't let him.

We'll have to wait and see the exact setup they give us, but I'll be surprised if it's a mentally-healthy Clint. I imagine this whole thing with Kate is going to be about Clint getting his head on straight, much like Fraction's run was.

i could see this as a further delving into ptsd similar to bucky in fatws.

a lot of the phase 4 stuff so far has dealt a lot with grief and trauma and how people process that which in the current climate makes sense, even moreso in the mcu where the planet just got over an interplanetary apocalyptic war

[Egomaniac]

Has anyone...tried? Most other franchises have been "here's your trilogy" or "here's your book series."

Well, DC tried...

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Let's recall that he was actively trying to kill himself. First by throwing himself at enemy after enemy, hoping to get into a fight he couldn't handle, as Ronin, and finally, by fighting Nat to see who got to literally kill themselves to get the Soul Stone for the other. I get a strong impression that Nat was doing so because she knew she had the fewest ties; she'd come to terms with her demons and was okay with paying this price. Clint was just trying to make the hurting stop. And Nat knew that, which is why she wouldn't let him.

I think it's a little more than that. I think the pain he was feeling was certaily part of it...but, if the plan worked, he would get his family back.

1) He genuinely did not want Nat to sacrifice herself. She was the last bit of family he had left.

2) Like you said above...he did not feel worthy of his family... he'd rather sacrfice himself to bring them back so they could remember him how he was rather than see him as he is now. Nat, on the other hand, knew that they would rather have a damaged Clint than no Clint at all. Also, with the added context we got from Black Widow, she wasn't going to let Clint abandon his family the way she abandoned hers. Even if he thought he was doing it for the right reasons and that they'd be better off without him.

And, on top of all that, neither one of them would ever just let the other sacrifice themselves for them...regardless of any other circumstances.

[s_bushido]

Well, DC tried...

/shrug I'm not sure handing the reins over to "Michael Bay with a broken slow-mo button" over there counts as "trying." But that does kind of support my point. It's only really been since the success of the MCU that other studios have even bothered attempting something like that.

[Egomaniac]

/shrug I'm not sure handing the reins over to "Michael Bay with a broken slow-mo button" over there counts as "trying." But that does kind of support my point. It's only really been since the success of the MCU that other studios have even bothered attempting something like that.

It was never tried before because it was thought to be impossible.

[Immitis]

I think humour has a lot to do with it as well

some people criticize the way people crack jokes a lot in the mcu but lets be honest, people do that in real life all the time

humour is a comfort, not just for entertainment its often a coping mechanism, a way to disengage from uncomfortable or tense situations

makes us feel safer, makes us feel distracted

spider-man constantly cracks quips because hes scared out of his mind

i cant think of any other attempted cinematic universe that got the humour right while also being able to convey its darker more serious moments and tones, the new suicide squad hits it right but most of dc's stuff went in the total opposite direction of doom and gloom.

people like doom and gloom but when thats all there is they lose their passion. the lack of levity wears them down. its not sustainable longterm without a few laughs

[Ivanstone]

isn't shang chi the first post covid movie not to have a massive drop in its second week?

Shang Chi had a 52% drop off which is pretty decent. I'd say its on pace to easily beat either Ant-man domestically. Its lagging in foreign release but it may do well. Black Widow's UK and SK opening week are slightly ahead of Shang Chi's and they were the two biggest markets.

[Triceron]

I don't know. i think something like the mcu was inevitable.

superheroes have permeated pop culture for generations now, even longer if you consider them to just be analogues to mythology.

Even if it was inevitable, the success of the franchises and the genres are relative to their quality and who controls the narrative.

We've had plenty of Marvel movies of various success prior to Disney, but nothing so consistent and cohesive as the MCU.

I mean even fantasy movies are inevitable considering the amount of fantasy material there is out there in all the different books and comics, but not every series is going to be a LOTR or first 6 seasons of GoT when we get down to it. There's also going to be series out there that drop the ball, and that's included the Hobbit movies or the last two seasons of GoT. Inevitability doesn't really equate to success, and the MCU could easily fall to its owns success much in how Star Wars movies haven't really been able to stay consistent with the rest of the material and got caught up in a huge mess when they tried to reorganize without a key visionary behind it all.

The real key behind MCU is having a visionary like Feige be able to guide the franchise around what people want, while keeping everything fresh and connected whenever they want to take risks with an experimental new direction (Guardians of the Galaxy, Thor Ragnarok, the new Disney+ series). The closest 'shared universe' I can think of is Star Wars, and often times all the material feels so disconnected if not for the efforts of Filoni trying to tie it all back together.

[Shadowferal]

Streaming will keep things going when running movies in the cinema doesn't.

[Immitis]

so now that marvel can use adamantium

which do you think will be stronger? adamantium or vibranium

[Berndorf]

so now that marvel can use adamantium

which do you think will be stronger? adamantium or vibranium

In the comics adamantium is stronger but vibranium can absorb energy along with being very hard. So it will probably be the same if its actually addressed in a movie.

[PACOX]

so now that marvel can use adamantium

which do you think will be stronger? adamantium or vibranium

I think we are going to see huge power boost across the board. Sam gets an adamantium shield.

[Egomaniac]

so now that marvel can use adamantium

which do you think will be stronger? adamantium or vibranium

Canonically, Adamantium is, if we're just using physical toughness as a measurement, stronger... but all it does is makes things virtually unbreakable.
Vibranium isn't quite as hard ...but its far more versatile. It's also a lot easier to work with.

We don't really know if or when we'll be seeing adamantium in the MCU though. X-Men are available...but Feige doesn't seem to be in any rush to use them yet and Wolverine may not be in their first outing.

[Ivanstone]

so now that marvel can use adamantium

which do you think will be stronger? adamantium or vibranium

Vibranium has an exotic property. Its not "hard" but it does absorb energy. Adamantium is extremely hard and durable but doesn't absorb energy.

[everydaygamer]

I think we are going to see huge power boost across the board. Sam gets an adamantium shield.

But then he can't bounce it around.

[Shadowferal]

But then he can't bounce it around.

As someone else pointed out to me, since vibranium absorbs energy and kinetic force Cap's shield should never bounce at all. The moment it hits anything it should simply drop to the floor/ground. (After I complained about Rogers using the shield to ricochet bullets...those bullets should stop and drop at his feet)
In the comics however, the shield was created mixing several metals, two of which were mostly vibranium and adamantium.

[eschatological]

Shang Chi had a 52% drop off which is pretty decent. I'd say its on pace to easily beat either Ant-man domestically. Its lagging in foreign release but it may do well. Black Widow's UK and SK opening week are slightly ahead of Shang Chi's and they were the two biggest markets.

It's lagging in foreign markets because China is hemming and hawing about whether they're going to release it because Simu Li (Shang Chi himself) spoke the truth about China's regime.

[Endus]

As someone else pointed out to me, since vibranium absorbs energy and kinetic force Cap's shield should never bounce at all. The moment it hits anything it should simply drop to the floor/ground. (After I complained about Rogers using the shield to ricochet bullets...those bullets should stop and drop at his feet)
In the comics however, the shield was created mixing several metals, two of which were mostly vibranium and adamantium.

The in-universe explanation is that the shield absorbs kinetic energy and then re-emits it due to its construction. In the comics, that's probably the mix of the two metals, in the MCU, it's the construction.

If you really want to get into proper physics on it, it has to emit that energy somehow, since the alternative is that every time it gets hit, it absorbs more energy, and that continues until it explodes like an atomic bomb when it hits a critical point. Conservation of energy and all that.

[Syegfryed]

One the things that made me like the marvel movies and the franchise is the sense of continuity and all the movies that tie then together, in their own universe/timeline, that can "realistic" coexist with the comics universe, they can say is "earth 37917" and everything is fine

This give then freedom to not be trap in the sense of "we have to do things that are exact the same as the HQs", cause people expect they being faithful to the original source, of course, i love when i see something in the movie like i read in the hq, but with MCU being their own universe they can adapt a lot of things and blame the multiverse and variants, and it will be more acceptable than just "fuck it we will change because X reason, or token appearance, yada yada"., this way they can make a movie that everyone can like, comic or super-hero fans or not

I recently watched into the spiderverse(i took me a while cause i usually not into animation movies), but it was awesome, one of my fav things was the Doc Oc variant