Healing Problem at Spoils HC 10 Man - Disc Priest

[XyroN]

no its not, its easy enough to keep ppl alive but the dps from a disc pushing 200k plus with the buff is more helpful than being holy,

Holy does much more damage because of 50% more dmg on Mind Sear and Halo, while keeping everybody alive through the almost non-existant raid dmg with lightwell = without doing anything.

[Dracodraco]

Holy does much more damage because of 50% more dmg on Mind Sear and Halo, while keeping everybody alive through the almost non-existant raid dmg with lightwell = without doing anything.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings...iest&spec=Holy <-- holy dps ranks on 10 man spoils.
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings...pec=Discipline <-- disc dps ranks on 10 man spoils.

It paints quite a clear picture. There's one outlier at 187K dmg, and then a bunch at 150K or below. The lowest disc priest in the top 200 is doing about 5%? or so more dps than the second highest holy priest.
The data avilable does not support your hypothesis, XyroN. Inb4 "of course, people are just going disc because it's the easiest, no one plays holy cos they think it sucks!" - if you were correct, and holy was the better option for spoils, we'd see many more people actually be holy because it would be clearly stronger. It's not. Back in your holy-loving hole.

[Splerks]

It is easy but if damage dealers are bad and don't kill the adds fast enough, it can become hard.

We didn't open any other boxes with mogu boss - I assume others dont either?

[Deleted]

We didn't open any other boxes with mogu boss - I assume others dont either?

We take two small normally if I am remembering correctly.

[kenn9530]

Holy does much more damage because of 50% more dmg on Mind Sear and Halo, while keeping everybody alive through the almost non-existant raid dmg with lightwell = without doing anything.

on 10 man mind sear is pretty irrelevant as your only going to mostly have 2 mobs up at a time, the best discs priests are at 230k effective dps where as the best holy priests are at 193k effective dps, so thats a substantial gain being disc over holy.

[Bazylov]

Generally, towards the end of the big Mantid adds, I am finding that people dip quite low if I take two Set to Blow in a row. Is there anyway I can better prepare for this?

I also had problems with this. I dont know if it's good, but when i'm getting bombs I just keep healing and drop bombs when its like 3-4 sec remaining to explosion. Even if I get next set of bombs right after this, I have another few sec of normal healing. And of course im trying to heal while running (penance and PW:S ). Also usually I'm just not running too far away where I'm standing. My team never had problems with space so I can place bombs where I want to.

I'm always using SS after boss pull, but I dont know if its ok or not When i tried to save it for later in 80% of tries i had to stop casting to throw my bombs away so my SS was useless then.

[Deja Thoris]

2 other things I don't think have been mentioned:
1) Archangel uptime is a bit meh. At least with the big adds you can have it timed to co-incide with damage being taken.
2) Get the shammy on the same side as the priest and have him use HTT / AG at the appropriate times.

We have someone who re-rolled to their disc priest and it was a bit of a struggle, we found that well timed off healing really alleviates the stress.

Also, are these logs even right? 3 smites and 4 solaces in 4 min?

[Deleted]

2 other things I don't think have been mentioned:
1) Archangel uptime is a bit meh. At least with the big adds you can have it timed to co-incide with damage being taken.
2) Get the shammy on the same side as the priest and have him use HTT / AG at the appropriate times.

We have someone who re-rolled to their disc priest and it was a bit of a struggle, we found that well timed off healing really alleviates the stress.

Also, are these logs even right? 3 smites and 4 solaces in 4 min?

it alleviates the stress but doesn´t teach the disc priest how to play.

the way i do it is pop spirit shell as soon as the big guy is out and start stacking
1 aoe)
no incoming dmg because of spirit shell
afterwards i preshield everyone and pop mindbender+usual smiting
2 aoe)
no incoming dmg because of pws
for the third aoe you could try to prestack divine aegis through inner focus+a few poh casts but you can just poh the group to full if they get the full dmg. After the big guy goes down he should be at ~100% mana with about 25-30secs on mindbender

-if he has the healing buff he should try facing the small adds+sparks so he can almost oneshot them with the proc
-smart usage of halo makes one of the aoe dmg pulses trivial
-if he has issues on the mogu side then good luck with the mantid one

these were just a few thoughts that came into my mind, none of them is really necessary since you can atonement through the entire mogu phase or if he hasn´t enough gear i think even 100% poh spam would work. trying to prevent those big damage spikes makes the first half of the fight pretty chill though

[XyroN]

It paints quite a clear picture. Back in your holy-loving hole.

I replied to you before but deleted it since I cba'd to get permabanned because of the random cunt that you are (and the blatant sociopath that I am). So I'll try to exercise some restraint here.

You have logs to back up your shitthrowing, I don't have logs to back up my "hypothesis". Therefore, I'll reluctantly have to explain myself. I looked at the dmg breakdown for the top holy priests in that link and none of them were using Mind Sear, which is what my "hypothesis" was all about. When I was progressing on spoils10 I was holy (we had a disc priest already as a 3rd healer so I went holy for t16, after carefully evaluating that it was the better choice over 2x discs) since our disc priest didnt handle the fight well and we benched him for me. It was of course just because he's bad, disc can handle that fight with ease just like any other spec can. I felt straight away, however, that holy was very strong for this fight because I could keep everybody up with just a couple gcd's here and there while fully dpsing throughout the fight, while helping with the steep dps requirements. I most likely would've been disc for spoils if it had been my main spec at the time, because I wouldn't have seen/experienced holy in action without actually trying it over disc.

Always starting on Mogu side, I pre-renewed the raid, potted, pulled, 2-3x binding heal cleaves to refresh, put lightwell down with all procs, went into dps chakra and stayed in it until Mantid side. the renews from the beginning kept everybody at 100% through pandabuff whirlwinds etc. Then the 1st big guy came and Lightwell solo healed the fractures. 1st big guy died and we popped the 2nd one out, popped hero and killed him right as lightwell used its last charges to solo heal the 2nd guy's fractures. I never cast a single healing spell while dealing with both mogu side bosses other than pom / the odd 1,2 sec 2x fdcl PoH
After that we just opened loads of boxes and AoE's everything to bits while finishing mogu side with 65-70 sec left. (with me mind searing full time while cleaving with halo and doing sparks with buff).

On mantid side (disc's weaker side of the two), rolling renews outhealed the mantid boss's groupwide dmg ticks so I could just dps fulltime while using a couple globals here and there to refresh renews. After 1-2 kills I dropped the renews and went straight dps chakra fulltime on mantid side also, healing with fdcl PoH's, coh, etc.

All in all, I find holy to be more fun, more rewarding and plain better on both mogu and mantid side. Disc deals with mogu side very well, and is a bit clunky (but deals with ok ofc) on mantid side. Holy deals excellently with mantid side and is total utter blatant op faceroll on mogu side.

When I said "just go holy, it's much better and deals more dmg" I wasnt saying it cuz I know it's true, I was saying it cuz I felt it was. Hadn't checked any logs or even thought about it, and looking over these logs you've provided it makes me even more certain that holy is straight up better than disc for Spoils. I am not, as you being the obnoxious, condescending cunt you are so blatantly put, a "holy-lover". I like high numbers and outperforming my peers, much like you probably do. I get my satisfaction from being better than everyone else at what I do best. That is the main reason I was more than delighted to go back to disc when our current disc priest retired a couple months ago. Holy is much more rewarding and fun to play in my opinion, but can't hold a candle to disc in current raidsettings for a number of reasons you, as well as me, are fully aware of.

Why I spent more than a couple seconds of my time on the likes of you, I don't know and it sickens me to even think about it. But now you have my retort and can examine and scrutinize it for weak spots to poke fun at. Inb4 the 6-month banhammer.

[Deleted]

When I said "just go holy, it's much better and deals more dmg" I wasnt saying it cuz I know it's true, I was saying it cuz I felt it was. Hadn't checked any logs or even thought about it, and looking over these logs you've provided it makes me even more certain that holy is straight up better than disc for Spoils.

Ignoring the animosity, can you explain your reasoning behind thinking holy outperforms discipline? Following a change of plans for my day, I am sitting staring at my collected gear and bindings, wondering if it is worth giving holy another shot for spoils. However, looking over those logs, I see discipline outperforming in both HPS and DPS.

By the sounds of things, your raid has a lot more DPS than the group I am part of. We typically have around 20 seconds left on the timer, and that is with copious amounts of chain pulling.

[Deleted]

Keep the amount of statues low. You never want more than 2-3 up at the same time, and preferably not even that many. Your tank should be helping with the statues with aoe and cleave abilities while tanking the boss. You don't even have any melee on your disc priest side, so your tank can move and spin the boss as he wishes to get in range of all statues.

I'd recommend doing the minibosses alone, and not doing any additional boxes if your healers are struggling. Doing the small boxes with the medium ones is just as fast as doing small ones with big ones. The main difference is that the minibosses will be much easier to heal, but you'll have more sparks to deal with during the medium boxes.

[Dracodraco]

Snipping giant wall of text

The entire point is that if you WERE correct, and holy WAS that much better than disc, we'd have atleast one log providing us with that information. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, but feel free to provide a log where you push out +250K dps next reset in order to perform better than the disc priest. Untill then, every single assumption you're making is just that - an assumption. It doesn't change that no one has been able to replicate what you seem to think can be done (and someone *would* have by now - for some reason, lot's of priests find holy more entertaining, so they go holy during farm), and that for now, disc provides far better results. You also have to remember that even if your lightwell can solo heal 2x of the "big bosses" and you barely have to cast any heals, that may be entirely dependant on your specific raid setup. Did you have any kind of offhealer on your side? Did you have a blood DK (which can for all intents and purposes keep himself alive through everything on spoils if he plays correct)?
There's also the fact (as Kenn9530 pointed out) that you're extremely unlikely to have more than 2-3 mobs up at a time if you're progressing this fight. It's all well and good if you can do break-neck pulling of +4-5 crates at a time on farm, but I'm willing to wager that you didn't on your first kill. So Mind Sear will be largely useless, considering it needs a fair few targets to be "effective".


As for the constant personal bile-filled shots - why do you feel they're neccessary? Just because I have logs to back my statement up and get to call you out on it doesn't make me a "obnoxious condescending cunt" - I go off of data available to us. Not rainbows and unicorn farts that has been thought up in a mind experiment. Remember, the OP is asking for advice - I have logs to show what works for people. You have assumptions that if they manage to do what you say, it'll work.

[Adinora]

on 10 man mind sear is pretty irrelevant as your only going to mostly have 2 mobs up at a time, the best discs priests are at 230k effective dps where as the best holy priests are at 193k effective dps, so thats a substantial gain being disc over holy.

Just because the hps is lower doesn't mean that the group will fail because of this, necessarily. Despite how bad holy is right now, I highly doubt they would make it completely unhealable as holy or any healing spec for that matter.

[Dracodraco]

Just because the hps is lower doesn't mean that the group will fail because of this, necessarily. Despite how bad holy is right now, I highly doubt they would make it completely unhealable as holy or any healing spec for that matter.

I have yet to see a fight this tier that every healing combo couldn't theoretically heal. Nothing is "impossible". But some fights sure as hell will be easier with disc rather than holy.

[Adinora]

I have yet to see a fight this tier that every healing combo couldn't theoretically heal. Nothing is "impossible". But some fights sure as hell will be easier with disc rather than holy.

This is unfortunately true. I've recently switched to holy just for kicks and it's been pretty fun and far more challenging. There will be a couple of fights on heroic that I will pretty much be forced to go disc however - something that in my opinion is very broken and hopefully changes a bit in WoD.

[Ninjawhite]

Yesterday We had Our first wipes at Spoils HC 10.

Raid Comp:
1st Group: Monk Tank, Resto Druid, Rogue, Frost Mage, Balance Druid
2nd Group: Prot War, Disc Priest, Destro Lock, Ele Shaman, BM Hunter

We had of course a lot of problems because we have no exp on this encounter.

One of our main problems was the Disc Priest struggling a lot to keep his party alive, especially after AOE damage from Mogu Elders.
On the other hand the Resto druid had no problems at all healing his party. We also tried to switch sides but nothing changed.

Can you please check our logs and give some tips to our disc Priest (567 ilvl)?

worldoflogs.com/reports/ppewp8j3c6mremiz/

Server: EU Nemesis
Guild: Easymøde

My advice would be to switch sides with your rogue and your hunter if it won't negatively effect your dps balance.

Spirit shell the 1st cast, have the rogue smoke bomb the boss (if the boss is standing in the SB his cast will only hit targets in the SB), then use your warriors Rally, then shaman has Healing Tide and AG. Like its been said here, lust on the 1st boss on the mogu side helps alot. Also make sure you are killing the statues they spawn, as the more of them that are up, the more dmg his aoe cast does. Another thing that might help with getting the bosses down faster is to pull them to the center of the room (where the sparks spawn), so that melee and tanks can help cleave the sparks and other caster cleaves will hit the sparks and the boss.

Here's the video of our 1st kill from our disc priests PoV. If you have any other questions please feel free to hit me up in game, if that is even an option, not sure if realid works across US to EU. Ninjawhite#1292

youtube.com/watch?v=BDCnity0wUs (wouldn't actually let me post it as a link, but you can copy and paste it)

Ninjawhite
Mal'ganis - US

*Edit- One other thing that really helped us was splitting up into separate channels in mumble, and use 1 person from each side for any cross communication. You can set up a Push to talk key that is linked to a certain person or channel in mumble.

[kenn9530]

Just because the hps is lower doesn't mean that the group will fail because of this, necessarily. Despite how bad holy is right now, I highly doubt they would make it completely unhealable as holy or any healing spec for that matter.

its doable yes but given that dps is really tight on this fight its much safer and more efficient to be disc , as a healer on this fight if your not disc you should be dpsn as much as possible as many times you may be within 10 secs of wiping If you don't dps at all, disc is much higher dps than holy however and it doesn't sacrifice healing output, the main healing on the fight is primarily during the mini bosses so at these times on 10 man holy won't be able to contribute nearly as much damage as a disc can.

[Deja Thoris]

I replied to you before but deleted it since I cba'd to get permabanned because of the random cunt that you are (and the blatant sociopath that I am). So I'll try to exercise some restraint here.

If you think someone is a random cunt because they prove you wrong with facts instead of a hypothesis pulled out of your arse then you are going to have fun when RL happens to you.

[Adinora]

its doable yes but given that dps is really tight on this fight its much safer and more efficient to be disc , as a healer on this fight if your not disc you should be dpsn as much as possible as many times you may be within 10 secs of wiping If you don't dps at all, disc is much higher dps than holy however and it doesn't sacrifice healing output, the main healing on the fight is primarily during the mini bosses so at these times on 10 man holy won't be able to contribute nearly as much damage as a disc can.

Oh 100% agreed. I know disc is better for the fight - I'm still going to give it a shot as holy I will switch back to disc if necessary for progression as usual. I am just so very bored with disc!

[Tygerlily177]

Just came here to say that he doesn't have a single dispel, while the druid has 6.

There are 3 debuffs on spoils:
- a stun
- a slow (can be freedomed)
- a stackable debuff that jumps to other members when it it dispelled (this one is called Torment I believe)

Torment becomes impossible to heal if you let it stack too high.

Edit: well I went back and looked at the rest of the log. (I thought you only had one attempt to show us.) He did get dispels on the other attempts, but my tip is still valid.