1. #1

    Request: GUide 10 - > 25 SoO Heroic

    Hello Folks,

    Next week my guild and other will join together to a new quest, trying to close 25H Content, my guild has 13/14H and working at Phase 3 on Garrosh H, almost killing it, just need a few more tries, maybe 30.

    The other group it's Country #2 ( in Brazil) and killed Garrosh a month ago, one week before the nerf.
    They have around 18 players and 11 of us go to other guild.

    I'd like to request a guide to SoO bosses with positioning and numbers of healers to us, both me, my former Raid Leader and the current Raid Leader of the other guild are studying the fights again, to manage the transioning very well and don't lost much progression, we aim to kill at least 12/14H in the first week and don't take more than 3 weeks to kill Garrosh Heroic.
    In Brazil we have nearly 5 average-good 25m cores, and if we killed Garrosh fast we could get Country 2nd too, and that would be great for marketing purpose and stuff.

    So, my MMO-Champions, do u have some tips, guides, advanced guides and stuff?

    I see a lot of videos, but, something write to follow it's always good :-)


  2. #2
    My guild finished up SoO US 9th for 10m and made the transition a little over a month ago, and these are the takeaways I have as the raid leader of that team.

    General information:
    The number of melee you bring is rather irrelevant at this point, in my humble opinion. I have ran with 10 and I have ran with 5, and personally the only difference I ever noticed was how many people my divine star hit on Fallen Protectors. That being said, I would focus your comp on fitting the required number of healers, the optimal DPS possible, and the team you feel most comfortable with.

    Manage your expectations. Some fights are easier on 25 man. A lot easier. Some are harder. Malkorok, imo, is significantly harder on 25m. More pools to fuck up is all. The point being, you need to be aware of the fact that your once quick farm of the first 13 might take you 3-4 nights now. It might not. You might spend two weeks just getting back to Garrosh, or you might get there by Thursday. Just be prepared, and make sure your raid is too.

    Don't underestimate the number of cooldowns you will now have. You are expected to use these effectively on harder bosses, and the healing comps I suggest below are with effective CD usage in mind. Some raid leaders choose to use an addon to track raid CD's; personally, I hate that shit cluttering my screen, but I have an exceptional memory for things I write down. So I write out every raid CD for each boss. Always. Whatever works for you, just make sure you're ready for a lot more.

    On to the fights. Please note that all of my comp suggestions are suggestions. You can totally drop a healer or add one for every damn fight. You can solo tank some of them. This is just what worked really well for us. My comment about difficulty compared to 10m is a reflection of my own guilds experience on the transition. It is not a concrete fact.

    Immerseus -- 2 tanks, 5 healers, 18 DPS

    This fight was a good deal easier on 25m. The debuffs on Immerseus vanish instantly, and because of this, all the adds spawn at once and the healing is significantly easier. Misdirect/Tricks the adds as usual and aoe. Split the raid up, making sure the healers are spaced as usual. I used 5 because it gave me plenty of coverage. The healing adds do have quite a bit more health, so Halo and such will no longer top them off. Point being, if you have 6 healing adds on 1 healer, they probably need some help. Make sure your healers are aware of that. No other pressing changes. Easy boss.

    Fallen Protectors -- 2 tanks, 5 healers, 18 DPS

    This boss was about the same on 25m. 5 healers is a good number here because it gives you 5 dispels, and there are 5 debuffs. That being said, as with 10m, dispelling is not essential and mass dispel remains amazing. The strat did not change at all for us on 25m. Pushing early because of multi-dotters was less likely on 25m, it seemed, although we did still do it once and the result was the same as before: pop CDs and just chug along. Also very easy.

    Norushen -- 2 tanks, 4 healers, 19 DPS

    This fight actually was harder for us, though still not hard. The healing requirements are absurdly easy, as with solo-healable 10m. The problem is co-ordinating the number of people who go down and making sure you have enough people to soak the pools. On 10m, it was a joke because the orb numbers and the tanks going down all lined up perfectly. Not the case on 25. Still just 2 tanks, but 19 DPS to cleanse now. You get 12 orbs, but you won't want to use them all. Send your disc priest(s) down at the start as usual, along with one tank, and then choose 3-4 solid DPS to go down as well. Once the adds are dealt with, have the next batch of DPSers soak the pools and go down. Repeat until dead.

    Sha of Pride -- 2 tanks, 4 healers, 19 DPS

    Another fight that's harder on 25m. You have three adds now, the same one in the back and two to either side. Assign either death grips or a dedicated team to deal with each one as you please. Rifts spawn faster, every three seconds now, and all of the prisons activate. I suggested 4 healers, but if you really want to make this fight a joke, you can run with 6 and have those 6 healers all assigned to deal with a specific set of prisons. That way, the DPS only have to deal with 4 total locks, which makes it absurdly simple. That's not really necessary though, because you have a lot of bodies to manage imprison. Only other thing that I could imagine being dangerous on 25m is something we've never had an issue with; more people are there to not soak their 50 corruption pool, if you get that far.

    Galakras -- 2 tanks, 5 healers, 19 DPS

    We had an easier time on 25m, but the fights a joke in every format. We literally have the following assignment for towers: One tank and one healer stays down, don't get Korga below 50%, rush the tower the moment it opens with 23 players and then drop down and kill the Demo while the OT stays up shooting birds. This isn't necessary, it's just fun and quick. I don't think you can wipe to this fight, and we've certainly tried.

    Iron Juggernaut -- 2 tanks, 6 healers, 17 DPS

    One of a few fights where I feel 6 healers is really warranted, and you could justify more. As with 10m, the healing is rather intense. Nothing is new here, so your strat shouldn't need changing. It's just still a healer check with a non-existent DPS check probably meant to be in there somewhere. If your healers are exceptional, you can drop down 1 or 2. Just map out good CDs. Better safe on a first kill though, in my opinion.

    Kor'kron Dark Shamans -- 3 tanks, 4 healers, 18 DPS

    The bottom part of the room remains incredibly simple for ranged and healers, and is still solo-healable easy. The melee and 2 tanks will have a bit more damage to deal with because of the increased number of DoTs, but nothing 3 healers can't handle. This fight is relatively unchanged. I did not find it difficult, but I cannot speak from the perspective of a player up top. I always heal the lower area.

    General Nazgrim -- 2 tanks, 4 healers, 19 DPS

    As with the previous 8, this fight remains a joke. Honestly, you will almost certainly get this far in one night and be laughing the whole time. You might wipe on Norushen if you get overambitious and send a boat load of DPS down. Probably not though. If my talking about other fights didn't make it clear, nothing changes on this fight--it remains incredibly easy.

    Malkorok -- 2 tanks, 6 healers, 17 DPS

    I did run 6 healers on this because I split the room into sixths and I find that one healer in each slice works out best. I've since done it with less. It's not healing intensive, it's just easier to mess something up on 25 man's and want more healers to compensate for those mistakes. Biggest reason this fight is harder is the numbers increase. More pools to soak, so more responsibility, and 3 adds now spawn, which makes picking them up a completely different job from what we were used to on 10m. AoE grip, single target grips, misdirects, or just tank pickups are all viable options. Just be prepared to have to handle more shit. One other note: solo tanking is supposedly a great deal harder on 25m. We never did it on 10m anyways. If you all stack up with a few people out clearing orbs, you can chain strong CD's and never worry about blood rage anyways. Druids can roar with the glyph in to instantly remove the debuff without it going off, as it's classified as a root on heroic. Have your priests step out early, wait for Ancient Miasma to finish casting and let Halo's hit the raid to instantly top up shields, then spread back out. The fight maybe harder on 25m, but it's still not too rough.

    Spoils of Pandaria -- 2 tanks, 4 healers, 19 DPS

    Sparks have more health, so expecting your healers tidal waves to just clear them out constantly is unrealistic on 25m. Still not hard to manage. The strat is completely unchanged, at least for us, and the fight is a joke to heal as it was before. The DPS check is the only real concern, as it was on 10m, and I mean this in that if you lose 5 DPS you might wipe, at your gear level.

    Thok the Bloodthirsty -- 2 tanks, 6 healers, 17 DPS

    Now I know some guilds run 7 or 8 healers, but that's so unnecessary now. In fact, you can drop heals if you have strong CD's and a good healing core, but why risk it? Plan out your CD's, setup a solid Devo chain, and enjoy this boss that is much easier than it's unnerfed 10m counterpart. I only got to do Thok 10 heroic nerfed once, and it was about on par with the 25m version now. The only thing that can wipe you remains a botched kite or completely missed CD's/awful healing.

    Siegecrafter Blackfuse -- 2 tanks, 4 healers, 19 DPS

    Let's talk for a minute about how my raiders hate me because we kept the 10m strat we used and still kill mines on the belt every time. Let's also acknowledge this is not the easiest way to do the fight. It works for us, but it's not painless. A lot of guilds run a strat where they position by the mines drop point, let them through each time and aoe them. I'd suggest this strat as well. Warlocks can get up on the belt using Eye of Kil'rogg prefight (you can Google how) and hunters can still get up each time as well. Pick your team of belt DPSers, 4 for us (2 on the pull) and start wiping. This one will take a little bit of time, but is not harder than 10m. In fact I found it easier even using a harder (so I hear repeatedly) strat.

    Paragons of the Klaxxi -- 2 tanks, 5 healers, 18 DPS

    Well, this is the bitch you keep hearing about in 25m. The nerfs helped a lot, but it's still the one that required the most changes for us. Couple things to note--3 people get morphed into scorpions, and 8 parasites spawn each set. That means that 3 sets of scorpions, which you'll certainly get without BL/Hero on the pull, requires another set of parasites. We let out two and have as many people eat two as possible. Based on how many are left after the third set (in other words, how many people managed to eat two who could) I either call for a DPS stop to let another set out (3+) or just finish Rik'kal off and kill the parasites. Either way works. The scorpion DPS on a tank is still amazing, our druid wrecks bosses, and nothing else is really changed until you get to Xaril.

    The halos are actually a bit of a bitch on 25m. They really split your raid up with the number of them. We've never had deaths to the actual halo, but we lost an attempt once because every healer out ranged the tank without putting a CD up before hand. Whoops. Plan around that. Green is still annoying as shit, and purple is still a joke (spin in circle for 9 seconds, wheeeee.) Beating the second poison remains the big mark, but all the while you have to contend with Iyokkuk putting out lines that are a hell of a lot more scary on 25m. Make sure you map out CD's for each set of lines, getting progressively stronger. Now, you can still kill Kaz'tik after Xaril if you want, and we do, but you have to take your CD's into consideration if you decide to go that route. Make sure you're not facing a set of lines without something up if you leave Iyokkuk up that long.

    Once Kaz'tik and fire lines bitch are dead, the fight is a joke as usual. One last bit of advice: don't call a wipe until it's very clearly a wipe. We've managed some stupidly sloppy kills on this boss.

    Garrosh Hellscream -- 2-3 tanks, 3 heals, 19-20 DPS

    This fight was irrefutably easier on 25m. By quite a bit. That doesn't mean we didn't still get our asses kicked quite a few times, but the p1 intermission that is the major cockblock for most 10m's is exceptionally easy on 25. Focus your efforts instead on dealing with the empowered whirls. If you want to stick with the kill strat, grats on manning up. 10 spawn instead of 8, and they have quite a bit of health, so you'll need DPS to assist healers if they get an add. Disc priests can no longer solo them. This is what we did, and we only had issues in p3 with getting them all down before the MC happened. Once we managed that, p4 was a breeze. You need 7 people to spawn an iron star, and it takes 5 to do Malice. Make sure you have enough to spawn a start on the second malice, and then just have set soakers for the 4th malice and collect your easy p4 win.

    Of course, the much more common strat is to run a third tank, brewmaster, and have him kite the adds. To do this, you have the raid stack up and move as a unit leaving a line of adds behind you, which the brewmaster picks up and kites around the room. Make sure you plan out the desecrate weapons in a way that gives him enough room to not have to run through five of them. The only challenge here is making sure you can pick up the second set without getting killed by the first--use some well times stuns and AoE grips to pull this off. Most 25's use the strat, it's tried and true, but we didn't. It's all up to you.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by Ezekiah; 2014-03-17 at 02:11 PM.

  3. #3

    i´ll just write some of our impressions we got, switching from 10 man to 25 man (cleared 10 Man on 09.December and cleared 12/14 first ID and about 20-30 tries for Klaxxi and Garrosh)

    Immerseus: Debuffstacks on boss dissapear immediately, adds dont have to be tanked. Pretty cheap Boss, easy solotankable

    Protectors: No difference at all for me. Easy solotankable

    Norushen: Important to make clear who takes an orb and who not, can become quite a mess. Tanks have to handle the big adds and should soak most of the orbs.

    Sha: Make 4 Groups for inprison. You have to deal with 2 big adds (for example 1 for the melees and 1 for the ranges). Ignore the Titans Debuff(exept the first), Soak the rifts

    Galakras: Absolute Faceroll do whatever you like

    Juggernaut: Normalmode tactics: dont let you knock out of range, stay in bossrange, place black voids outside of the "camp"

    Shamans: 3 Tanks faceroll

    Nazgrim: No difference at all imho, maybe exept nuking the shaman add next to the boss (stuns ftw)

    Malkorok: No difference, Solotank bloodrage others soak the orbs. Take care of the Adds.

    Spoils: No Changes

    Thok: No Changes but you should have enough healers (6-8), two camps a 12 ppl

    Siegecrafter: You can try your 10 man tactics, it can work better than trying a new tactic. If you dont want to play your 10 man strat : Tank Boss next to mines, nuke mines, kill Rocket turret, stack, place saws outside of the camp. 4-5 ppl per treadmill team

    Klaxxi: Use people with strong self cds for "aim". If Xaril casts "violet" on you just spin on the ground so you just leave a small void. You have to handle the machanics a little more precise in 25 man. This Boss is quite "hard" even with 575+

    Garrosh: you can 2 or 3 tank the boss, we prefer 2 tanks
    P1:Stack Nuke 1st Weapon within the Camp, kill right engineer. you need 8 ppl to go outside for the weapon
    trans1: make 5 groups with 2 ae stuns each. Stun the first 2 casts single kick the 3rd (for us the most difficult phase for this encounter due to too less ae stuns)
    P2: Do whatever you want. ^^
    trans2: Same as 10 man, exept more voids imho
    "P2,5": we spread and kill off the adds for the first&second emp whirling like 10 man cause we play with 2 tanks. Its quite easy and all your cds are ready for p3 zerg.
    P3: a clean transistion makes it easy as f*** just nuke and stack outside for emp whirling make your monktank kite the adds, warrior ae kick the corrupted ppl. -> gg
    P4: You need 7 ppl to trigger iron star and 5 to soak malice. Monk kites Iron Star. 2nd 4th and 6th malice are the "hard" part.
    All in all garrosh is quite "easy" compared to 10 man. The difficult part is to figure out your strat and play it as clean as possible.

    The only Boss i felt to be harder in 25 was Klaxxi. The first 11 can be oneshotted without any problems.

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