Celestalon on Demo tanking

[Underscore]

To make Prot DPS is so simple, you just adjust the dmg modifiers on fucking everything, change how a core defensive abilities to work as DPS cooldowns, and presto.. no work involved.

But to adjust dmg values of a DPS class and modify how a core ability to the spec works in another stance is impossible and there are technical limitations beyond the scope of comprehension....

This...

Just an idea that people aren't willing to let go of, and will fabricate excuses all the time as to why the game needs it.
The fact is that the game does not need warlock tanks, and will not be benefiting from their presence.
They won't improve the tank shortage beyond a short novelty period.

Thats true to some of the players but imo many ppl will continue to use it. My alts where all hybrids and i rarely stood as dps to avoid long queue times. You wouldn't have to but most would switch to tank if that means shortening a 30 mins queue.

[ComputerNerd]

This...




Thats true to some of the players but imo many ppl will continue to use it. My alts where all hybrids and i rarely stood as dps to avoid long queue times. You wouldn't have to but most would switch to tank if that means shortening a 30 mins queue.

There is a way more played class with proper tanking, called death knights.
And that has had no lasting impact on tank representation.
The fact is tanking is unattractive for random groups, I would argue due to the state of the community.
No new tank role will change that.

[Underscore]

Dk's came also with a dps spec so the ratio of tanks didn't improve but you have a point on performing healer/tank on random groups. I remember the pain that was healing or tanking LFR when the other players just didn't give a damn.

Still it won't change the base subject:

- It will still improve the queues even if by a small margin (if blizz made all classes hybrid then you'd see a big change).
- 80% of the work was already done.
- You're not forced into it the same way you don't have to be a tank if you're a warrior, or a resto if you're a druid.
- It's viable. Those ho tried it already even without a proper taunt or queues know it's a damn good and fun tank spec.
- It would refresh the interest on a class that even with class quests and major revamps is still under-represented.
- Oh and did i said almost all the work is done already?

Blizz gave a lot of love to warlocks recently and i acknowledge and rejoice it. I resubbed and didn't rested until the green fire quest was done witch was an awesome piece of solo content. The class revamp i liked some stuff not much others but we still got attention.

But making a full tank mode and blocking it a couple of weeks going live with the removal of crit immunity and taunt was a shitty move.


This sums it up perfectly:

http://www.thedailyblink.com/2012/03...ur-playerbase/

(btw the .5 was green fire)

[Munemasa]

vexew clearly have miss read, you see my list was based around things that have already been stated by blizzard and things that have been data mined from the WoD alpha so the things that are standing in the way at the moment according to blizzards alpha notes and data mining, the majority are disappearing

Balance it likely the only thing that takes time,

Cause we already have defensive talents and glyphs, our first tier is defensive and we also have sac pact tier, glyphs we have siphon life, eternal resolve, strengthened resolve, unending resolve, healhstone, dark soul and drain life so no shortage there, did I mention readiness shortens the CD on twilight ward and haste gives you ticks of drain life that with the drain life perk just gets better and better every tick sounds like active mitigation to me

Really resolve, crit immune and taunt(not sure if changed or not) are all we are missing aside from the queue factor and flagging twilight or fury ward with resolve sp really wouldn't be that hard.

Gearing is pretty easy seeing as no dodge,parry or block on gear anymore, multi strike gives extra dot/channel ticks, I can see potential there for different gearing dependant on talent/glyph choices as well as different rotations focused around drain life and soul fire double shield, self heal or mass defensive CDs

Really it depends on which version of gosac they choose to go with if it will be an option or not like the 35% more personal crit, pet goes gone would be nice,not an option if they decade the no crit for you all crit for pet unless pet crits give crit double fury gen cause machine gun imp from demon training would give obscene fury, and if multi strike procs fury gen that could be broken not to mention 1s soul fire being possible

Basically the future looks bright for lock tanks even without resolve

Sorry if my sentences are a bit dodgy doing all my posting via phone at the moment

[Orloth]

It may be a relic or it may not the 6.0.1 added in on the wowdb link
http://beta.wowdb.com/spells/104314-demonic-fury says its also triggered by soul fire and shadow bolt with there own generation values of course that fits, not to mention that in the WoD talent calculator you can select glyph of demon hunting with a level requirement of lvl 1 sort of makes Me question the accuracy of wowdb/wowhead or if they are correct the stance blizzard has publicly stated.

My list of reasons for believing its still on the table are as follows
Adjusted threat value of DA
The change to the tooltip and effect of provocation
The rolling in of the DA mastery into demonic fury
Fury ward, still being called in DA, potentially causing multiple game crashes because calling on something that doesn't exist
Demonic fury gen from meta melee
Defensive glyphs/talent choices
Meta melee being effected by gosac
Readiness effecting twilight ward
The drain life perk, cause reading it it sounds like clipping it will generate ridiculous self heals seeing as there isn't a stack limit
The change from vengeance to resolve
Gear/item changes stats being on gear but only being effective in a given spec
Lack of statement saying its off the table entirely
With all of those changes, most of the things Celesalon stated are no longer an issue, the 3 things that are well balance in never perfect, crit immunity is a melee thing and everything about locks is ranged, and player awareness/training is a time thing

Now there is a chance its all just bad Data mining, but there is also a chance its a case of people like myself seeing what we want to and there is also the chance that it is something that they don't want to release details on because they are in fact working on making it. But really it is just speculation and unless someone wants to spring for a server side copy of wod,assuming blizz would even sell it pre release, allot of the background workings will remain a mystery

I do however find it unlikely that 2 mobs do the same bad datamining, and blizzard does have a habit of stealth adding/changing and removing things, and they also seem to like experimenting

/twitch/

We've been over this. When datamining, please check the live version (slider in the upper-right corner for MMO-C; link in the upper-left corner for Wowhead) to see if there have been any CHANGES. What you linked is unchanged from the live database (of both), and half of your list consists of things that you fabricated based on this same failing in the other thread. You are working off of bad data. Garbage In: Garbage Out. Please research and link responsibly.

[Deleted]

While being able to tank as Warlock, theres so many problems its not even funny, instead of listing them, let me list the limitations all tanks has that warlocks would have to be balanced around.
Melee range.
Physical damage.
Evasion.
no casting.
no channeling.
no pets.
low CC.

While it would be cool to play a tank that is ranged, have pets, tons of cc, and all other boons a ranged dps class gets, it would also break the game balance in half, oh i would totally enjoy the 1v5 pvp however no doubt.
We had a class like that in the game once, Death Knights start of WotLK, I loved it! was ultra fun being a tank that could ranged dps, have pets, beat a horde of enemy players and be utterly immortal, it was also the most overpowered shit ive ever seen, my only regret was not naming my char DKarthasDK

[vaeevictiss]

They have been saying they wont do it for a long time now. Why dont people just let it go?

As cool and fun as tanking was...it doesnt need its own spec. It made it feel much more epic when you had those fights like Leotheras and Illidan where the lock was called upon to take some tanking duties. If we're given our own tank spec then it will be expected...we're just another tank at that point and wont feel nearly as big of a feat.

That, and the fact we would then be a hybrid class and they would have a reason to nerf our DPS lol.

[Deleted]

If you watched WoW Source 3 for Hazzikostas' marks on threat, you could take it so that half of the game play features and tank duties just aren't there anymore. Except in some form of a false illusion that you might loose your aggro. People who enjoy DA tanking right now, would probably not like it as much, in a case where taunts and AoE taunts are added.

At the same time it is curious that in the old style warlock caster tanking, there was maybe 2-3 fights in particular, where the threat building was close to not being enough for the rest of the raid. (In long term, this may have also been a stronger form of illusion, I mentioned, where at that point all the lock was doing was to spam one button, and the lock simply did not have the priviledge of knowing if that would keep the aggro. Yet it may have been balanced exatly so that keeping aggro has almost 100 % chance.)

But when it comes to Taunts, and comparison with them, theese fights were very special in that there were numerous ways one could affect (or ignore) the initial aggro on targets (that had just spawned or had a reseted threat, and sometimes started firing on people immeadetly).

Even if Blizzard says there is no threat in this game anymore for normal tanks, it is not certain they would make things as easypeasy for caster tanking encounters, as they are in mythic difficulty etc.