Tinker Discussion Thread

[Orlong]

Personally I wouldnt want to see them put "tinkers" in as "tinker" is an offensive and derogatory term used for wandering Irish and Scottish Travelers (gypsies)

[Deleted]

Sometimes people like stupid things.

I guess this covers it, thats my opinion anyway.

[Deleted]

Don't care, I'm just waiting for Thrall to become a playable class.

only if the class has a self res spell with a 3 day cool down

[Toiran]

We really did not need another one of these threads... it's just the same handful of people arguing the same shit over and over again.

This, I'm pretty sure Tinkers aren't "so popular" and it's like 3 guys who actually want them.

[shadowmouse]

With the exception of zeppelins, your examples are a laundry list of things players I find disconcerting and/or contradictory to fantasy. Does "lore, LOL" ring any bells?

Fixed that for you. Like it or not, it is there, it is all over the place, and it has been since those Dwarfs working on their steam tanks in Vanilla. If you have a lore based objection, take it up with which ever devs keep putting this stuff in.

[Deleted]

some ppl like thinking of some exotic and strange concepts that doesn't rly fit to the game but are extremely unique like Arakkoa(ok ppl think of arakkoa just because they think that 2nd draenor exp is possible and they are looking for another Draenor race to become playable with ogres), space goats or pandas as playable race or tinker, technoslayer or artificer as a class.

[Ielenia]

Its associated with a future Tinker class due to it being tech-themed.

Completely irrelevant if you're associating it with a 'future class' that may well never come to happen.

[Deleted]

It's not a measure of intelligence, it is asking for a different game and game play style found in other games to be applied to WOW solely on the lack of understanding that the idea of tinker in WOW is anyone can be a tinker, you can be a warrior and a tinker, a hunter and a tinker. Basically, tinker is a profession in WOW and not a class. That is the reason we have quests where we drive mechs and do vehicle combat and not a class that does that. So when people think tinker fans are idiots, is because they clearly don't want to play WOW.

On top of that the 5 people who constantly beg for Tinkers are some of the biggest trolls in MMO-C. They have no desire to listen to the long list of reasons why Tinkers are a bad idea, they ignore the fact that when asked Blizzard Dev members have laughed in their faces. So yes you might think it is a fallacy to judge a person asking for Tinkers, but the reality is they themselves have proven they are idiots over the last 3 years.

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Gnome Mage, with Engineering.

ThAT is not a mage, infact its from wow tcg, and it says its a tinker

[Deleted]

I do not really think that tinkers are popular. in comparison to Demon Hunters which naturally fal under sympahy of players, tinker case is artificial, one person hype spread.

[Gamevizier]

Tinkers are popular enough, and it's not just bound to MMO-Champ forums. They're a well-established class in the WoW universe, and their role is getting more vivid with every expansion. like it or not steam-punk elements are a part of Warcraft setting, just like druidism and shamanism, we have two races (Gnomes and Goblins) that are tinker-themed races in Azeroth.

Tinkers can fill a gap no other class has, or is able to, fill and that is science. they are unique and versatile, because they can almost fill any role.

The difference between engineering and tinkering has been explained times and times, to the point that I believe if you're really serious about seeing an explanation (and not just using the excuse to blindly bash and troll on the forums) about this you would've searched for it already and read the posts explaining the difference between the two of them.

so yeah : unique class, unique theme, well-established role in warcraft universe, enough popularity. these three alone are enough to defend the tinker as a potential class.

[Dispraise]

unique class, unique theme, well-established role in warcraft universe, enough popularity. these three alone are enough to defend the tinker as a potential class.

One, that's four things. Two, it's not a unique theme, as the theme is taken by engineering. Three, the role is not well established. We have titans, and we have tinkers, neither of which are well explained in the lore. Seemingly, it all runs on magic. Ironic, seeing as how magic is well explained in the lore. Four, a handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

[Teriz]

One, that's four things. Two, it's not a unique theme, as the theme is taken by engineering.

Engineering is not a class, so no the theme is still wide open. No class utilizes technology as a theme, yet advanced technology exists throughout the gameworld.

Three, the role is not well established. We have titans, and we have tinkers, neither of which are well explained in the lore.

The role is very common among Gnomes and Goblins. Siegecrafter Blackfuse is just the most recent example.

Seemingly, it all runs on magic. Ironic, seeing as how magic is well explained in the lore. Four, a handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

Technology in WoW is just as well explained, with several different branches and styles.

I'll leave the design to Blizzard.

[Sukhoi]

One, that's four things. Two, it's not a unique theme, as the theme is taken by engineering. Three, the role is not well established. We have titans, and we have tinkers, neither of which are well explained in the lore. Seemingly, it all runs on magic. Ironic, seeing as how magic is well explained in the lore. Four, a handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

Thanks for my new sig.

[Hatecore]

Engineering is not a class, so no the theme is still wide open. No class utilizes technology as a theme, yet advanced technology exists throughout the gameworld.



The role is very common among Gnomes and Goblins. Siegecrafter Blackfuse is just the most recent example.



Technology in WoW is just as well explained, with several different branches and styles.

I'll leave the design to Blizzard.

The theme is taken by engineering. We do not need a Tinker Class, To much of a lap with engineering.

[Teriz]

The theme is taken by engineering. We do not need a Tinker Class, To much of a lap with engineering.

Please explain how a Tinker tanking a raid, soloing content in a DPS spec, or healing an ally in PvP overlaps with an Engineer gathering a bunch of scraps to make a pair of goggles, and trinkets.

[fixx]

Engineering is not a class, so no the theme is still wide open. No class utilizes technology as a theme, yet advanced technology exists throughout the gameworld.

If the theme exists it exists... Since it's a skill you can already pick the engineering theme for your character. Having engineering class on top of it would be just redundant.

The role is very common among Gnomes and Goblins. Siegecrafter Blackfuse is just the most recent example.

Who's to say those goblins and gnomes aren't just specced into engineering skill? There's no in-game evidence towards an actual engineering based class (and most raid bosses can't be classified under any clear-cut category anyway as they have skills from multiple classes and professions, and bunch of totally unique skills on top).

Technology in WoW is just as well explained, with several different branches and styles.

There used to be gnomish engineering and goblin engineering branches before in the game for the engineering tradeskill back when all skills had specializations. Goblin engineering, or tinkering as you call it has already existed in the game for years, just not in the form you'd like it to be.

I'll leave the design to Blizzard.

So why all the silly class abilities you're listing in the tinkerer threads? Those are attempt at design, and pretty poor ones to be honest.

Most blatant example of poor design to illustrate the point: "engineering upgrade" skill you listed in post #142 of this thread does essentially exactly the same thing that glyphs do for all other classes, modify abilities. Have you put any thought at all on the abilities or just copy&pasting that shit from WC3?

[Hatecore]

Please explain how a Tinker tanking a raid, soloing content in a DPS spec, or healing an ally in PvP overlaps with an Engineer gathering a bunch of scraps to make a pair of goggles, and trinkets.

Tinkers can heal now? Man fan fiction =/= cannon lore

Lore wise they are the same thing

Both make bombs, rockets, shit the blows up when it hits the target etc.

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If the theme exists it exists... Since it's a skill you can already pick the engineering theme for your character. Having engineering class on top of it would be just redundant.



Who's to say those goblins and gnomes aren't just specced into engineering skill? There's no in-game evidence towards an actual engineering based class (and most raid bosses can't be classified under any clear-cut category anyway as they have skills from multiple classes and professions, and bunch of totally unique skills on top).



There used to be gnomish engineering and goblin engineering branches before in the game for the engineering tradeskill back when all skills had specializations. Goblin engineering, or tinkering as you call it has already existed in the game for years, just not in the form you'd like it to be.



So why all the silly class abilities you're listing in the tinkerer threads? Those are attempt at design, and pretty poor ones to be honest.

Most blatant example of poor design to illustrate the point: "engineering upgrade" skill you listed in post #142 of this thread does essentially exactly the same thing that glyphs do for all other classes, modify abilities. Have you put any thought at all on the abilities or just copy&pasting that shit from WC3?

The best thing is the "Tinker" From HOTS he keeps talking about is a Engineer lore wise.

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OH AND THE RAID BOSS shit? from Siegecrafter Helix Blackfuse

Helix Blackfuse was the only goblin with the combination of engineering prowess, professionalism and ruthlessness to satisfy Garrosh in his search for the engineer of the True Horde. His love for his creations (and for the gold they fetch) blinds him to the fate that his fellow goblins are likely to face should Garrosh's plans come to fruition.

Engineer as well

[Dispraise]

Engineering is not a class, so no the theme is still wide open. No class utilizes technology as a theme, yet advanced technology exists throughout the gameworld.

The uniqueness of the class is the one thing I did not question. If you remove all other considerations besides how the theme compares to the themes of other classes, sure. It's unique. But that is not the only consideration.

The role is very common among Gnomes and Goblins. Siegecrafter Blackfuse is just the most recent example.

Being common is not the same as being established. There are a crapload of tinkers in the lore, yes, but none of them are well established.

Technology in WoW is just as well explained, with several different branches and styles.

Not really, no. We have gnomes who make stuff that fails alot, we have goblins who make stuff that explodes, and we have titans who make stuff that actually works, but can't be reliably duplicated cuz reasons. None of it has any real depth, or explanation.

That point can be interpreted as personal bias, so instead I will stick to the objective and much more important fact: none of the established canon separates engineers from tinkers, as they are literally one and the same in the lore.

I'll leave the design to Blizzard.

Blizzard has spent a decade not implementing the tinker.

[Destruktion]

It doesn't fit. The tinker has to be shoved into the game like a square peg in a round hole. Some lore arguments I've read for its inclusion are feasible, but not really Blizz-like.

[Revi]

If the theme exists it exists... Since it's a skill you can already pick the engineering theme for your character. Having engineering class on top of it would be just redundant.

This arguments get's brought up all the time. Saying a profession with a technology theme makes a tinkerer redunant is like saying a profession with a magic theme makes all mages, priests and warlocks redundant. It's just not true.
If two completely different things can't share the same theme, then nothing technological in wow could exist other than engineering. No vehicle combat, no guns, no toys, no Gnomeregan, no Ulduar.

A class and a profession is not remotely the same thing, and you know that. It's not the same in lore, not the same in gameplay, not the same in function, not the same in mechanics. They're just not the same.

Who's to say those goblins and gnomes aren't just specced into engineering skill? There's no in-game evidence towards an actual engineering based class (and most raid bosses can't be classified under any clear-cut category anyway as they have skills from multiple classes and professions, and bunch of totally unique skills on top).

Technology is a huge part of their culture, just like Night Elves with nature and Elune, or Dwarves with Mining, smithing and beer.
Also, High Tinker Mekkatorque <King of Gnomes>. He is described as a tinkerer. Not as a "warrior with engineering" but as a tinkerer. His wowpedia sheet states "Character Class: Tinkerer"
There's no reason at all to think he's just specced engineering.

There used to be gnomish engineering and goblin engineering branches before in the game for the engineering tradeskill back when all skills had specializations. Goblin engineering, or tinkering as you call it has already existed in the game for years, just not in the form you'd like it to be.

Wrong again.
Goblin engineering has already existed in the game for years. So has Gnomish engineering. There's nothing available to players called "tinkering".
If you want to find tinkering in WoW, look at Mekkatorque, it's his class.


Whether you like Tinker as class is up to you. There's a lot of people on these forums who doesn't like it, and that's perfectly fine. But making shit up instead of just stating your opinion has to stop.