Horridon nerf a indication on underestimating the boost?

[Smudge]

150k was appropriate DPS for the tier and a fresh 90 boosted frost mage I queued with a week ago was near that on Horridon (he was beating 536-SoO-LFR-geared hunters by 10-20% margins). SoO geared characters are capable of twice as much DPS.

125k was a VERY GOOD DPS on Horridon 10 *NORMAL* back in the day so what the fuck are you talking about?

You do understand that 50k is just fine for LFR Horridon right? It's lovely if a half dozen people are doing 150 but that is just a present from people who are using gear entirely alien to the tier (sometimes me) to us (sometimes you).

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So you can't commit to a raid schedule. How does that explain complete lack of class and fight mechanics research before attempting a raid?

Because it's LFR and some people think of WoW as an immersive game, not one of those games where the goal is to see who can look up and enter the cheat codes fastest.

[Deleted]

There isnt nothing done with boosts in LFR ppl always "forgot" the freking adds and tunnel the boss.Now some ppl who are care about these adds have chances to kill them before they get too much and wipeout the raid

[Jackelyn]

Going off of your logic you should then be able to explain how to raid tank or raid heal just going off of questing experience. I am waiting. I do believe you are reading too much into the nerf and using it as some sort of odd validation for your obvious stance in the matter of boosted players.

I never once mentioned people should be able to learn a class from questing? I said they clearly never read there abilities... also I boosted a monk healer and had no issues at all performing (I took the time to check my abilities and have a quick look at a website to give me an idea whats what) so I'd exspect other to and not just go all out retard hitting the whatever button has a nice look about it.

I also offered advice to the tanks on where to position themselves and the boss as I main a prot pala and have been tanking for lord knows how many years, to which I was given the "**** off and tank if you have an issue" All I did was offer advice and lay some markers down on the ground for them.

As for using the nerf as a way of validating my stance on boosted characters? I LOVE THE ABILITY TO BOOST! Old friends coming back and a few RL friends joining the game (all of which have taken the 10 minutes to check simple rotations and guides so they can actually play the game). I just dont see any other reason for Throne of Thunder 2nd boss (and raid boss that has been out for 11 months) to now be nerfed, tell me what has change recently that has populated the ToT LFR because before the boosted chars I had no issues when I would be in there

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If you are too good for LFR, then don't do it.
Simple concept, but obviously too hard for stupid people to grasp.
LFR should be for people who cannot commit to scheduled raiding for whatever reason.
It should not be used as a catchup for elitist jerks.

Every other format requires prior time commitment, something some simply cannot commit to.
Grow up and stop with the childish bashing of something you could avoid, but choose not to.

I use ToT LFR for simply for the gear to get into SoO LFR.. Also elitist jerk? I offer advice in the nicest possilble way of "XX ability will dispel XX from a player, use this when this shows " Hardly blowing my e--penis in someones face claiming to be the daddy

[Adhemar]

125k was a VERY GOOD DPS on Horridon 10 *NORMAL* back in the day so what the fuck are you talking about?

Uh, no. No, it wasn't. http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Horridon/10N/all/14/730/p70/
So what are YOU talking about? First of all, by "for the tier" I mean in gear from that tier. But Horridon is a DPS gimmick fight with a scaling DPS boost, regular cleave and AoE opportunities and only moderate movement for most classes. Competent DPS were over 100k single target in 496s. Which would easily shatter your 125k on Horridon.

You do understand that 50k is just fine for LFR Horridon right? It's lovely if a half dozen people are doing 150 but that is just a present from people who are using gear entirely alien to the tier (sometimes me) to us (sometimes you).

I guess I should go tell my friend to delete that frost mage he queued into LFR with me on. He pulled 150k on LFR Horridon in unenchanted 483s with a flex BoA staff. Clearly his character must be bugged as you say it's impossible. My own frost mage was easily doing over 200k on Horridon in upgraded 522s with a sprinkling of 502s.

Because it's LFR and some people think of WoW as an immersive game, not one of those games where the goal is to see who can look up and enter the cheat codes fastest.

Then learn to read tool tips and study the dungeon journal harder, because raid content isn't there for people who can't be bothered to understand mechanics. And making "cheaters" like me do your homework for you is rude.

[Deleted]

Blizzard clearly do not play their own game. They should've known that LFR is way overtuned for the wave of boosted 90's. A massive nerf on all LFR wings would of been preferable, it's all outdated content now anyway.

[Jackelyn]

Garalon? Never wiped more than 2 times... Didn't do him for about 3-4 weeks after the LFR came out however due to heroic progression so I dont dispute he probs did wipe groups dozens of times at the starts but I didn't do LFR the few weeks as I already said.

[Adhemar]

I took the time to check my abilities and have a quick look at a website to give me an idea whats what

Cheater, cheater, pumpkin eater!

Go delete your un-fairly gotten gear and start over right now.

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Garalon? Never wiped more than 2 times... Didn't do him for about 3-4 weeks after the LFR came out however due to heroic progression so I dont dispute he probs did wipe groups dozens of times at the starts but I didn't do LFR the few weeks as I already said.

Garalon LFR was beaten bloody and blue with the nerf bat of doom because LFR couldn't handle passing pheromones. Accepted strategy post-nerf was just to leave it on one person for the entire encounter. Amber Shaper was just as bad. One idiot in the suit and you were screwed. And I had a 9-stack kill of Lei Shen once (OMG ADDS EVERYWARE!!! WHY DONT U TNAK THEM?!?!) ... It was pretty ugly and the next time I had a five-stack attempt on him I pissed off enough LFR heroes to earn myself a vote kick and didn't queue again until ToT was old news and I needed Lei Shen's heart for an alt.

There have been plenty of comically bad LFR-destroying fights. Nazgrim and Garrosh were the latest, I believe, but with flex around, I have mostly managed to avoid SoO LFR.

[Deleted]

Right, they nerfed an encounter the week after allowing horribly geared alts to queue up for it because of another problem that's been around for three months. That makes sense.

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Have you even done this fight? WTF does "dinomancers up" have to do with the price of tea in Antarctica?

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I don't have a problem with your main point, but this is really, really untrue. A single character geared from the current normals and played well can generally accomplish about 50% of what is required to succeed in current LFRs. If I queue with two friends in similar gear and with similar skill, we can guarantee success in all but the most difficult LFR fights (Lei Shen being a good example of one we couldn't simply carry).

One good player can make a world of difference in LFR.

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150k was appropriate DPS for the tier and a fresh 90 boosted frost mage I queued with a week ago was near that on Horridon (he was beating 536-SoO-LFR-geared hunters by 10-20% margins). SoO geared characters are capable of twice as much DPS. And other than the people I queued with (on my 553 healer, to carry them and get fast queues) everyone I've seen in LFR in the last two weeks was pathetically bad. I have seen several people below 30k DPS (I really wish this was an exaggeration, but I'm talking about almost a third of the DPS in some groups), absolutely worthless as healers or completely /AFK.

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The only alternative for gearing my ungeared alts is to endlessly farm burdens on timeless isle. Blizzard forces players like me to carry completely clueless players through LFR.

So you can't commit to a raid schedule. How does that explain complete lack of class and fight mechanics research before attempting a raid? If you're a mage and don't know you should have nearly 100% uptime on your level 90 talents, you shouldn't be in a raid. If you're a DK tank and have spirit, intellect and agility gems in your gear, you shouldn't be in a raid. And when I have to carry people like that (much less suffer being called an elitist jerk for doing it), I'm not going to be happy about it.

Who are you to say who LFR is for?

Bolded for hypocrisy

[Farabee]

set times for flex?
I spend less time in an OQ 'queue' than i do for LFR by far.

OQueue the addon or Other Raids? I get invites on my alts using Other Raids but the groups are almost always complete fail. Now I just use OpenRaid. Never done it with the addon.

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I guess I should go tell my friend to delete that frost mage he queued into LFR with me on. He pulled 150k on LFR Horridon in unenchanted 483s with a flex BoA staff.

Yeah, uh...weapon upgrade is the biggest damage boost for any DPS toon, and the Flex weapon is 541. Add that to the damage boost you get with the boss and all the adds you can spam frost orbs on for free AOE damage and you're bad if you're NOT doing 150k.

[cabyio]

LFR is for people who don't have the time (or aren't willing to put in the time) to learn how to play their class or the game.

The more nerfs, the better it is for everyone.

Ugg.. What's the point of playing a game if you are not going to learn the proper way?

[kamuimac]

Garalon LFR was beaten bloody and blue with the nerf bat of doom because LFR couldn't handle passing pheromones.

what u written is utter bs and if u played it week 1 ur 100% aware of it - the reason why so many wipes occured there was cause so many retarded griefers made groups wipe on purpose people were leaving and groups were eternally stuck on it cause of douchbags not cause of people having problem with phermone handling - 1 douchebag was more then enough to wipe a group even with competent healers there with constant crushes .

[Adhemar]

Bolded for hypocrisy

Was waiting for this comment. Saying LFR is not for me when it's one of two progression paths available and by far the more efficient of the two and saying LFR is not for people who can't be asked to meet the basic requirements of playing the game are not the same thing, so there is no hypocrisy in my rhetorical question. The other guy wanted to exclude people because they participate in higher tier content, I just want people to be moderately competent and not /AFK when they queue for group activities. Thanks for your constructive argument.

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what u written is utter bs and if u played it week 1 ur 100% aware of it - the reason why so many wipes occured there was cause so many retarded griefers made groups wipe on purpose people were leaving and groups were eternally stuck on it cause of douchbags not cause of people having problem with phermone handling - 1 douchebag was more then enough to wipe a group even with competent healers there with constant crushes .

No, it's not "utter bs" and yes, I did Garalon (and killed him) week 1. The crush nerf was only one specific change and it wasn't entirely targeted at griefers (your standard can't-be-bothered-to-learn-mechanics LFR player was just as likely to cause a crush as "griefers" were). There were several other nerfs, including to the stacking raid damage of pheromones.

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Yeah, uh...weapon upgrade is the biggest damage boost for any DPS toon, and the Flex weapon is 541. Add that to the damage boost you get with the boss and all the adds you can spam frost orbs on for free AOE damage and you're bad if you're NOT doing 150k.

So a mage in 483s with no enchants and a 548 weapon should be doing 30-50% more output than hunters in basically solid 536s? And the argument was about what was possible in 522-536 gear. You really think 12 item levels on a weapon matters more than 40-50 item levels on every other piece of gear and enchants? Yeah, I didn't think so.

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Ugg.. What's the point of playing a game if you are not going to learn the proper way?

But we killed the boss, so why does it matter?

[Radio]

This is Blizzard's way of saying "You're right, this is the most overtuned 2nd boss in the history of the game."

But it actually wasn't overtuned, it was just beautiful at telling you which people in your group weren't paying attention.

[Deleted]

This is Blizzard's way of saying "You're right, this is the most overtuned 2nd boss in the history of the game."

Yeah because lfr horridon.. that's where the challenge is at.
Don't kid yourself, it's not difficult because it's overtuned.

And OP I agree. They underestimated the impact of shitty players. The amount of people in this thread putting words into other peoples mouths is scary though.

[Firebert]

Ugg.. What's the point of playing a game if you are not going to learn the proper way?

The most enjoyable way should be the proper way because it's a game. WoW has, and always will, fail in this regard due to its complexity requiring homework to maximise your character, which is clearly not enjoyable for all.

[Manhands]

Is this Blizzards way of saying we underestimated how dump some people

I think it's against the ToS to comment on this quote the way I would like. I'll just leave it be.

As to your main point, I think the main problem is healers. All around, jumping into healing on a fresh 90 without a proper UI or knowledge of your spells, and I can imagine the low output and uselessness.

Edit: I guess it implies that they need to find a way to build mouseover into the game for healing specs.

[Deleted]

125k was a VERY GOOD DPS on Horridon 10 *NORMAL* back in the day so what the fuck are you talking about?

125k dps was far below AVERAGE for 10 normal horridon "back in the day". Just saying. The average dps was around 140-160k for the "viable" dps classes. It was not even close to being super good, in fact someone doing 125k dps during the first week of horridon would have been benched in most raiding guilds since it was not even close to acceptable.

50k dps is also far from acceptable even in LFR for a boss with multiple adds and a damage taken increase mechanic. If it wasnt for the damage increase then yes, maybe. 50k with teh damage increase? You should have more than that playing with your feet in full blue gear.

[Radio]

The most enjoyable way should be the proper way because it's a game. WoW has, and always will, fail in this regard due to its complexity requiring homework to maximise your character, which is clearly not enjoyable for all.

It's almost as if we're playing an RPG.

[Deleted]

Tt should not be used as a catchup for elitist jerks... Grow up and stop with the childish bashing of something you could avoid, but choose not to.

I must be missing something. Show me where else in the game I can get LFR quality gear that isn't a really low random chance or literally hours of grinding for 1 item. Blizzard has made LFR part of the progression path; they need good players there to carry it, or it wont get completed as we've seen with ToT in the week after the boosts, so the solution is to make it the best source of gear for people working their way into Normal (or Flex).

Give me tough 5mans that reward the same gear, I'll never touch LFR again. Believe me when I say that "elitist jerks" want to be there as little as you want us there.

Also, reading your spellbook, which has a section that tells you how to play in 4-6 bullet points takes 10 seconds and would help you do "good enough" DPS/healing/tanking. Then you read your spells to see what cooldowns you have. If you're too lazy to do even that and go into a dungeon literally clueless, that's on you and makes YOU the jerk for wasting other people's time.

I boosted a Priest and specced it Disc, got a full set of TI gear with heirloom Garrosh weapons which was enough to get straight into SoO LFR. Read my spells, worked out what I needed and jumped in. I was actually out-damaging actual DPS characters by just spamming Smite and Holy Fire, and coming 1st-3rd on healing. That's really worrying.

[Firebert]

It's almost as if we're playing an RPG.

We are, but it has no bearing on my point...