12 year old girl speaks against abortion, and she does it well.

[Arthas242]

if a guy kills a pregnaut woman it's counted as a double murder, yet a woman can murder/abort any time and it;s legal. you cna;t have it both ways.

as you say it;s not human yet it;s counted as murder in a crime yet if it;s abortion it's ok.


also the guy has no say, maybe he wants it or doesn't but he is stck with no matter what the woman says. yet we are promoting equal rights between men and woman, yet the man has no right.

[Kraenen]

While I applaud the kid for speaking out, there is no way in hell this came to mind on it's own. Whoever the adult is who puts the ideas in this girls head should be ashamed.

Good job, you already fucked up this child before sche even has a chance to develop her own opinion on the subject.

Not necessarily. That so called young republican anti liberal teenager who made some speech against american liberalism eventually became a liberal himself.

[Immitis]

I don't think you understand the point. The point is to change the law so that abortions aren't legal,

why would we wanna do that?

[Netherspark]

Women's rights does not mean you have the right to kill a person.

You should be responsible enough to ever A) use birth control or B) have him wear a condom.

You murdered a person cause of your selfishness.

So abortion is murder, and birth control isnt? Funny place to draw the line....

Explain, why the difference?

[Radux]

Boy, do I feel completely weird describing a human fetus in logical terms, but must separate my emotional feelings from logical debate! >.<

You should still separate it. It is an emotion issue. How that emotion ranges will change from person to person.
However, your emotion should not have any influence on current scientific findings.

I accept what the current data shows, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to use my emotion to try to mislead others away from all possible data on the subject.

A well informed/educated mass of people is better than the opposite; despite people's emotional objections or whatever.

[spinner981]

Science isn't pro-anything. It is establishing observations from which you can draw conclusions; your stance is based on your interpretation of the gathered knowledge.

The majority of what you are saying is completely arbitrary.

Mutually agreed upon.

So is a tree. How's your desk doing?

1) you are wrong in an absolute sense because abortion is legal, thus is not murder. The most you can say is kill, unless you want to get into a dispute with the nearest dictionary.
2) Again, no one is disputing that it is alive. The dispute is that the rights of something not a person yet in no way supersedes the right of the woman to her own health. If it were any other way, self defense would not be a right because you could not place your own health above that of your attacker.

#1 and #2 work in conjunction. They are two requirements that both have to be met. No, killing a tree is not murder, no matter how many people wish it to be so.

Also, the definition of a human doesn't matter. Even babies past the point at which 'science' or the law would classify them as a human being are aborted all the time.

[Deleted]

i think its pretty awful that a 12 year old had to have an abortion in the first place

After 20 seconds of watching a staged by an adult video I skipped out...was this about a 12 year old getting an abortion? If so, well...fuck you, parents.

[Crissi]

I don't think you understand the point. The point is to change the law so that abortions aren't legal, even if we could get to the point where the only abortions were rape, incest, life of the mother, etc. it would still be stopping about 99% of all abortions. Also, yes, I would assume that when it refers to 'human' it refers to the species of humanity.

Well then this is where opinions will differ. I may disagree with abortions, but I do not advocate banning it because I rather like the right to my body and what exists in it.

Everything else you argue will be on opinion then and emotional feels.

[spinner981]

why would we wanna do that?

Something something about stopping the killings of multiple millions of babies a year.

[Kraenen]

if a guy kills a pregnaut woman it's counted as a double murder, yet a woman can murder/abort any time and it;s legal. you cna;t have it both ways.

as you say it;s not human yet it;s counted as murder in a crime yet if it;s abortion it's ok

I just remembered a thing I noticed the other day: How come pro-lifers never say "we have 2 children" instead of "we have one child and another on the way". And how come they never say they're 21 years old when they're 20 and 3 months?

[Deleted]

Something something about stopping the killings of multiple millions of babies a year.

And force women to be pregnant against their will, resulting in desperate women resorting to backalley abortions, resulting in deaths. Yeah, way to go.

[Kraenen]

So abortion is murder, and birth control isnt? Funny place to draw the line....

Explain, why the difference?

Well, the hardcore catholics say condoms are murder. Hey, at they're being consistent.

[Deleted]

So abortion is murder, and birth control isnt? Funny place to draw the line....

Don't forget all those millions of people I kill every day/week/month jerking off. I should go give myself in at the nearest police station.

[Immitis]

Something something about stopping the killings of multiple millions of babies a year.

babies dont have souls so you arent killing anything.

babies are like robots they dont get souls until they are like 3 years old

[Kasierith]

#1 and #2 work in conjunction. They are two requirements that both have to be met. No, killing a tree is not murder, no matter how many people wish it to be so.

Also, the definition of a human doesn't matter. Even babies past the point at which 'science' or the law would classify them as a human being are aborted all the time.

That's kind of the entire point. Ending a life is not a problem, since killing a tree is obviously perfectly fine (in the eyes of the law). Because the legality of abortion is the established law of the land, it falls on you to prove that a fetus is a distinguishable, fully conscientious being independent of the mother. If you can't prove that, well, the law of the land is against you.

[Crissi]

Something something about stopping the killings of multiple millions of babies a year.

killing of zygots / fetuses vs bodily autonomy. Both are contentios subjects, and just because you use the word baby doesnt auto win an argument

[-aiko-]

After 20 seconds of watching a staged by an adult video I skipped out...was this about a 12 year old getting an abortion? If so, well...fuck you, parents.

No, just a brainwashed 12 year old who memorized her parent's script.

[MrWolly]

A: She started off with way too many "What ifs." B: She mentioned a "Creator," thus showing a sense of bias. That was the point when I stopped watching the video. When overpopulation and low intelligence are no longer a problem, then maybe I'll be pro-life.

[spinner981]

Well then this is where opinions will differ. I may disagree with abortions, but I do not advocate banning it because I rather like the right to my body and what exists in it.

Everything else you argue will be on opinion then and emotional feels.

What ever happened to the 'scientific' argument that the fetus isn't a human? Now its "Oh, well that's just your opinion!" somehow?

All women have the right to their body. But nature doesn't care about their rights and if women have sex then nature is gonna try to make them pregnant. Sometimes women try to prevent it with condoms and most of the time they work but sometimes they don't. But you can't just go around blaming nature that you are pregnant, and you can't just go around blaming nature that you are aborting your own child. It was the woman's choice to have sex. It was her right to choose whether to have sex or not. I am very pro-choice when it comes to that decision. If you don't want to be pregnant, then don't have sex. If you don't mind the risk, then go ahead and take it. But don't just abort your child because YOU felt that they are a burden.

[Shakari]

Oh, I'm sorry, I had no idea that just because the law says something that automatically makes it right. I mean, it's not like any law anywhere has ever said anything that you personally disagree with or something.

Let me change my statement then, since murder has the baggage of how it is defined 'by law'. It is the killing of a human. It happens all the time past the point at which there is a brain, heart, fingers, nose, etc. so the argument that it isn't killing a human because it doesn't have those things is moot. That definition doesn't affect what you are legally able to murder at all.

Anything outside the law is personal opinion and in a mass society is a moot point and worthless as everyone has a different opinion, thats why we have laws a common ground we all work from. So for all intents and purposes yes the law is correct, and no its not murder as its legal and a fetus before the term set by law in not consider a person, so as murder is killing a person unlawfully, abortion fails on both counts as murder.

Your opinion (which you are entitled to, but thats all it is your opinion) does not make it murder or even wrong, for anyone else, as long as its done within the boundaries set by law, that is really beyond debate.

The law allows for choice, that is where your own morals and opinion come into it, you personally if your female, can choose to have or not have an abortion if you think its right or wrong.

They two separate issues.