Moonkin patchnotes

[Cyous]

True, forgot about that talent already

Can't say I don't blame you. Equinox is pretty bad in its current state. Given Equinox came with additional effects like Nature's Grace interaction, it would fare better when compare to Insect Swarm and Sunfall in "all" situations. (Equinox feels normalized, but IS and SuF are noticeable increases.)

~ based purely on a "what if we see this fight again?" argument. (Single-target, Multi-DOT/Council, hard AOE).

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Not when paired with equinox, which could be when that talent is called for; sustained heavy AOE.

We can actually math out Hurricane + Sunfall (..AS+SF) against Equinox -> Hurricane/AS+SF. Once the spell coefficients are reliable, just need to plug those in. But I don't see Equinox being too much better for sustained AOE (like 30sec of just AOE.) Because you still have to factor it against Multi-DOT and SS-weaving (+IS spam)

[Owlkin]

Eclipse state still have snapshot mechanic. So if u cast new hurricane just before leaving it will buffed by eclipse full duration and pull u directly into next eclipse(especially if they expand euphoria on it).

[Deleted]

Correct me if i am wrong but i dont think it works like that for hurricane. Dots will snapshot for eclipses because of empowered dot. But for hurricane the second NG ends or eclipse ends the following 'tick' of aoe will be changed and not snapshotted. However i could be completely wrong.

[Aboubacar]

Correct me if i am wrong but i dont think it works like that for hurricane. Dots will snapshot for eclipses because of empowered dot. But for hurricane the second NG ends or eclipse ends the following 'tick' of aoe will be changed and not snapshotted. However i could be completely wrong.

Everything for hurricane updates dynamically on each tick except for haste. The length of the channel and tick intervals are determined at the time of cast. It's an extremely powerful spell with enough haste buffs.

[Miraclous]

Eclipse now increases the damage of all Nature spells (or Arcane, depending on which Eclipse state is active) cast while it is active. This means that for example: a Moonfire cast during Eclipse will receive the Eclipse benefit through its whole duration, even after leaving Eclipse. The reverse also holds true; a Moonfire cast before entering Eclipse will not benefit from that Eclipse until it is recast.

This discription doesn't really make it clear to me how hurricane/astral storm will work with eclipse. I hope it means that it snapshots the eclipse at the start of a hurricane channel, but the discription makes me more inclined to think it means that as soon as you leave eclipse you loose the eclipse bonus on your hurricane/astral storm.

Also I wonder how dot snapshotting will work with eclipse, now that dots can extend to a max of 130%.

Recasting periodic damage over time and healing over time effects that are already on the target now extends those effects to up to 130% of the normal duration of the effect.

If you had an uneclipsed moonfire, and you refresh it in eclipse while there's still 30% of your previous moonfire left, does that mean the entire 130% becomes eclipsed? Looks like me that it does, which is cool. I'm wondering if the reverse applies as well, that if you refresh an eclipsed dot outside of eclipse you lose the entire eclipse effect. This would create an interesting dynamic where inside eclipse you want to refresh uneclipsed dots asap, and outside eclipse you want to refresh on the last tick or just after the eclipsed dot has run out.

[Juvencus]

This discription doesn't really make it clear to me how hurricane/astral storm will work with eclipse. I hope it means that it snapshots the eclipse at the start of a hurricane channel, but the discription makes me more inclined to think it means that as soon as you leave eclipse you loose the eclipse bonus on your hurricane/astral storm.

Also I wonder how dot snapshotting will work with eclipse, now that dots can extend to a max of 130%. If you had an uneclipsed moonfire, and you refresh it in eclipse while there's still 30% of your previous moonfire left, does that mean the entire 130% becomes eclipsed? Looks like me that it does, which is cool. I'm wondering if the reverse applies as well, that if you refresh an eclipsed dot outside of eclipse you lose the entire eclipse effect. This would create an interesting dynamic where inside eclipse you want to refresh uneclipsed dots asap, and outside eclipse you want to refresh on the last tick or just after the eclipsed dot has run out.

Reapplications always re-snapshot. Extensions like Blood in the Water and Starsurge crits always keep the current snapshot.

The Pandemic effect is a cushion to the reapplication clipping penalty, not a mechanic to maintain snapshotting.

The description on how Eclipse will work with all spells isn't clear for me. Instead of using Moonfire as an example which means nothing as it's how it works now, they could have used Hurricane and make it clear.

[Thelxi]

I wish they hadn't done the mushroom-hurricane interaction. At least make it a talent not a baseline crapola that they will regret anyway by the time the expansion is over. I want those mushrooms to burn in hell and have a reliable albeit channeled AoE that does decent damage.

Stop trying to make mushrooms happen!

[Akaena]

I wish they hadn't done the mushroom-hurricane interaction. At least make it a talent not a baseline crapola that they will regret anyway by the time the expansion is over. I want those mushrooms to burn in hell and have a reliable albeit channeled AoE that does decent damage.

Stop trying to make mushrooms happen!

Blizzard really wants to push shrooms being part of our aoe for some reason.

[Dreyen]

Yea.. i feel like mutlidot on low target/spread targets vs hurricane is good enough as a design.

if they want mushrooms watering to work, it could be great if they allowed us to plant mushrooms and detonate them during the channeling of hurricane, without interrupting it... gives us something to do during the channeling!

[Vanos27]

Mushroom grenades. That's the only iteration of the spell I'd absolutely love. It would completely solidify my main for WoD.

What we have now? No thanks. What we're getting with the whole "watering your shrooms for epic damage!!!" no, please god no.

[Aboubacar]

Mushroom grenades. That's the only iteration of the spell I'd absolutely love. It would completely solidify my main for WoD.

What we have now? No thanks. What we're getting with the whole "watering your shrooms for epic damage!!!" no, please god no.

Until you rage quit when the tank won't drag the mobs over the mushrooms or keeps moving them around

[roxfm]

Until you rage quit when the tank won't drag the mobs over the mushrooms or keeps moving them around

I think the grenades iteration means you throw on a ground target (much like when placing it now) and it explodes on impact. So wherever the tank / adds are, you just throw them there.

Could do 2/3 charges with a X second recharge for balancing. That would be far better than what we have now, imo.

[Deleted]

I think the grenades iteration means you throw on a ground target (much like when placing it now) and it explodes on impact. So wherever the tank / adds are, you just throw them there.

Could do 2/3 charges with a X second recharge for balancing. That would be far better than what we have now, imo.

please be taking notes blizz

[Vanos27]

Until you rage quit when the tank won't drag the mobs over the mushrooms or keeps moving them around

Have you ever seen Keg Smash? Why would I care where the tank takes the mobs when I can dictate where the shrooms will go? You throw them, they explode, easy.

[Pitpit13]

omg if mushroom watering goes live im quitting boomkins get no love everyone should just reroll warlock and be OP why play a boomkin?

[Glurp]

omg if mushroom watering goes live im quitting boomkins get no love everyone should just reroll warlock and be OP why play a boomkin?

What a great way to introduce yourself to the forums as a smart and insightful person...

Have you ever seen Keg Smash? Why would I care where the tank takes the mobs when I can dictate where the shrooms will go? You throw them, they explode, easy.

I think you mean Dizzying Haze.


The whole issue with mushrooms is that how they are on the alpha seems flawed and even counter-intuitive towards other changes Blizzard are making this expansion.

The biggest issue is the "watering" of the mushrooms. It seems fairly straightforward that when you deal damage with Hurricane/Astral Storm your mushrooms will grow in power however there are 2 major concerns, the first being that it will always be optimal to have them charged before combat starts, meaning in some situations it simply won't be possible, or at best you're going to create another Firelands situation where you run around looking for critters on the way back and end up yelling at everyone who kills them before you.

The next problem comes that it just straight up doesn't make sense in terms of what Blizzard has done so far this expansion. Removing positional requirements from spells because they were an unnecessary skill floor (remember, skill floor, not skill cap) which I agree with, then we suddenly get given powerful mushrooms which are locked to their position on the ground unless you spend time moving them whenever the tank feels like moving.

In my eyes mushrooms should just get remade completely, there are lots of ways it could be done but here's an idea of mine:
- You gain a mushroom every time you enter a Solar Eclipse (max of 3 charges) or every x seconds while out of combat. When you cast them you have a targeting circle (like Dizzying Haze) and you simply throw them where you want them to deal damage instantly.

[Cyous]

omg if mushroom watering goes live im quitting boomkins get no love everyone should just reroll warlock and be OP why play a boomkin?

Actually, since confirming that "watering" is +5% per damaging event, instead of per tick, Mushrooms will do an obscene amount of AOE damage. Mushrooms just need to be more readily available. While fully charged, your mushrooms will do 900% more damage, overall. Which is worth 9 mushrooms (1.5sec of GCDs), which is about 2 ticks of Hurricane, which means those mushrooms would deal an additional "6-7 ticks worth" of Hurricane damage (using current damage ratios). Which makes them well worth the GCDs spent, in a vacuum. Factoring in conditionals, we'll see our sustained AOE be more like Cataclysm. (Mushroom x3. Hurricane to max, Detonate, mushrooms, Hurricane to max, Detonate). Of course, the skillcap extends to your tank's ability to replicate enemy movement consistently.

[roxfm]

Actually, since confirming that "watering" is +5% per damaging event, instead of per tick, Mushrooms will do an obscene amount of AOE damage. Mushrooms just need to be more readily available. While fully charged, your mushrooms will do 900% more damage, overall. Which is worth 9 mushrooms (1.5sec of GCDs), which is about 2 ticks of Hurricane, which means those mushrooms would deal an additional "6-7 ticks worth" of Hurricane damage (using current damage ratios). Which makes them well worth the GCDs spent, in a vacuum. Factoring in conditionals, we'll see our sustained AOE be more like Cataclysm. (Mushroom x3. Hurricane to max, Detonate, mushrooms, Hurricane to max, Detonate). Of course, the skillcap extends to your tank's ability to replicate enemy movement consistently.

Disclaimer: My opinion here, take it with a grain of salt!

I agree that the damage portion will be huge - as you have correctly mentioned 900% (300% x 3) - but I have a gut feeling that most of this 900% damage will be wasted. It seems pointless to have an ability that deals, say, 250k damage to 100-150k HP targets. Encounters won't (and likely should not) be designed with a moonkin with a mega-shroom detonate in mind.

I'm willing to bet that most other specs will offer a happy medium where you spend a combination of 3-5 GCDs and / or 2x 3-4 second channelled AOE for a 6-9 second "AOE" period and return back to single target. For Shrooms, it needs 60 ticks of hurricane damage to charge up to 60 (current WoD spell tooltip reads damage every 1 second for 10 seconds). On a 6-target AOE, that's 1 full channel (assuming the full channel records 10 ticks and not 9). On a 8-10 targets, it'll be less than that. Most AOE targets are likely to be dead before that.

Still, the damage portion aside, its clumsiness adds little to no benefit/fun/positive complexity to the rotation. The skill cap extending to tank part is one that I agree 100% with - and think it is extremely stupid too. And to a certain extent, they need to make the tank move on the fly to prevent encounter stagnation with respect to AOE. A few examples:

Bats on Tortos - gotta keep moving constantly to avoid the falling spikes from the ceiling
Adds on Lei-Shen - to get away towards or away from static shock or (w/e the shared dmg spell was called)
On Sha of Fear to get out of the shadow shock type of bolt
Norushen - from beams
Or Spoils (probably the perfect encounter to think of for a lot of AOE) - from the various ground spells / bombs / 'defiles' (of any kind!) etc.

All of these types of abilities make shrooms extremely tedious to utilize and I'd be a lot happier to get a more dynamic way of dealing the shroom detonate.

[earthwormjim]

Can't say I don't blame you. Equinox is pretty bad in its current state. Given Equinox came with additional effects like Nature's Grace interaction, it would fare better when compare to Insect Swarm and Sunfall in "all" situations. (Equinox feels normalized, but IS and SuF are noticeable increases.)

~ based purely on a "what if we see this fight again?" argument. (Single-target, Multi-DOT/Council, hard AOE).

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We can actually math out Hurricane + Sunfall (..AS+SF) against Equinox -> Hurricane/AS+SF. Once the spell coefficients are reliable, just need to plug those in. But I don't see Equinox being too much better for sustained AOE (like 30sec of just AOE.) Because you still have to factor it against Multi-DOT and SS-weaving (+IS spam)

If they make it so that hurricane does enough damage, it is highly unlikely we'll be dot weaving except for maybe on say a boss or priority kill target.

That's what I liked so much about the old mushroom mechanic. You could still dot weave like crazy in between the detonate cooldown. Really gave moonkins a truly unique aoe set up compared with the usual channel x spell for x seconds.

[Aboubacar]

If they make it so that hurricane does enough damage, it is highly unlikely we'll be dot weaving except for maybe on say a boss or priority kill target.

That's what I liked so much about the old mushroom mechanic. You could still dot weave like crazy in between the detonate cooldown. Really gave moonkins a truly unique aoe set up compared with the usual channel x spell for x seconds.

Dont forget typhoon either. Used to be 3 shrooms, detonate, dot if high enough HP, another detonate, then typhoon/hurricane at low HP.

There used to be a decent aoe "rotation" in Cata, not hurricane spam