[Mage-WoD] Mage Beta Discussion

[Deleted]

Can't say i'm optimistic about Maging going into WoD.
Improved Frost Nova needs changing, though. I don't often face enemies while i'm using it.

[Mastamage]

Hey guys, we have Improved Blink now. So that means it won't fail anymore right?????? Or maybe the change to Blink was just to get us back to where we were SUPPOSED to be after it fails in WoD? So excited. I hope we have lots of fights on platforms.

[Grogfoot]

Frost Bomb has been redesigned. It now lasts 12 seconds, has no cooldown, and explodes every time the target is critically hit by the Mage's Ice Lance. The damage per explosion has been reduced by 75% to compensate.

Just trying to make sense of how this would work in a rotation. So, it doesn't ever explode on its own, but if I hit it with a FoF proc it will explode. Does that mean it would need to be recast after that first explosion (Oh dear God, I hope not) or is it up for the 12 seconds regardless, and could explode many times during that duration?

Assuming the latter, since the former just makes me ill thinking about it, its essentially just adding ice lance AOE? I'm gleaning that mostly from: "...explodes every time...".

I know the bomb changes are one of the things most people are considering a positive change, but I will really miss the current version of Frost Bomb - it was a really nice way to avoid some of the RNG (guaranteed Brain Freeze every X seconds) with procs and you could adjust haste to have it fit perfectly into a rotation.

[pfbe]

Any word on making AT undispellable? As far as pvp is concerned, a talent that doesn't do anything until you activate it a second time or let 15 seconds expire, can't (until further notice) be cast while cc'd and can be dispelled in the mean time, sounds like a shoddy deal. As far as I could make out, there was pretty much no talk of dispels in the alpha notes, with the exception of cyclone and shamanistic rage/ua.

[Imnick]

As it says "every time", my assumption is that it will explode after 12 seconds and explodes an additional time every time Ice Lance critically hits a target afflicted with Frost Bomb, it would be awful to have to recast it every single time Ice Lance crit (which should be pretty much every time you cast it).

[Grizzlebees]

Frost Bomb has been redesigned. It now lasts 12 seconds, has no cooldown, and explodes every time the target is critically hit by the Mage's Ice Lance. The damage per explosion has been reduced by 75% to compensate.

Just trying to make sense of how this would work in a rotation. So, it doesn't ever explode on its own, but if I hit it with a FoF proc it will explode. Does that mean it would need to be recast after that first explosion (Oh dear God, I hope not) or is it up for the 12 seconds regardless, and could explode many times during that duration?

It was clarified on twitter that it remains up for 12 seconds, explodes as many times as you lance it.

[Zathrendar]

Sounds like a really dull class if these changes go through.

As for PoM not synergising with Poly... why? What's the 'risk' of it doing so if it's arcane-only?

[zomgDPS]

As for PoM not synergising with Poly... why? What's the 'risk' of it doing so if it's arcane-only?

It makes no sense.

It makes even less sense when you realize that there is no cast time spell left for Arcane mages to use PoM with, other than Arcane Blast.


They have truly made it a completely useless spell. And that is not hyperbole. It is useless in that there is actually no spell for PoM to be used with.
That plus the fact that it is being used as the 'scapegoat to solve all of arcane's problems', just makes me wonder wtf is actually going on at BlizzHQ


edit:
I just realized something.

Blizzard will realize their grave logical error soon (i.e. it is too obvious that they have fucked up with this 'new' PoM). I think what they will do is 'concede' (at least pretend to) and then make it seem like Arcane mages have won a great victory.


No. The fact that PoM is a useless spell now (literally useless that is, i.e. useless like how giving Warlocks a spell that reads "increases your holy damage by 500% and makes all holy spells instant cast" is utterly useless, since they have no holy spells!), the fact that it is useless is only icing on the cake.
PoM is not the saving grace for Arcane. Arcane lacks massive amounts of functionality from its 'kit', and that just when comparing it to other Mage specs, let alone other class' specs.

PoM is not the be all fix all for Arcane mages. Blizz needs to realize this point extremely quickly or it will be GG for Arcane mages in WoD, exactly like it was in MoP.

But yea, as I mentioned, Blizz would basically be proving their own retardation if they do not revert the PoM change, and/or drastically change the spell itself.

[Zathrendar]

Yes, and also arcane is a spec which lacks mobility and has, at best, modest CC. With abilities like Mirror Image becoming talents (albeit a rather decent one), what do they expect it to do? They may be toning down the CC and utility across the board but by no means in equal cuts. I just can't get the rationale behind POM not working with arcane spells like Poly, which already have things like DR to avoid them being too powerful.

Or are they admitting that not all specs can be PVP viable and so they're back to the old philosophy of just having 1 viable PVP spec?

[Zakajz]

Snip

Just imagine.... Cast Frost Bomb, launch Frozen Orb getting FoF procs and spam Ice Lance for 12 secs..... sounds awesome to me

Or we can pick the other talent

"Ice Nova: Cause a whirl of icy wind around the target enemy or ally, dealing Frost damage to all enemies within 8 yards, and freezing them for 4 sec. If the primary target is an enemy, they take 100% increased damage. Replaces Frost Nova. 20-second cooldown. Instant cast."

And Ice Nova-Frozen Orb- lance spam

I don't know about you but to me Frost mage AoE looks good

[zomgDPS]

Yes, and also arcane is a spec which lacks mobility and has, at best, modest CC. With abilities like Mirror Image becoming talents (albeit a rather decent one), what do they expect it to do? They may be toning down the CC and utility across the board but by no means in equal cuts. I just can't get the rationale behind POM not working with arcane spells like Poly, which already have things like DR to avoid them being too powerful.

Or are they admitting that not all specs can be PVP viable and so they're back to the old philosophy of just having 1 viable PVP spec?

I think it is more than that. There is definitely something very strange going on.

Just looking at the patch notes now, I notice this as a Frost only upgrade:

Improved Frost Nova - After casting Frost Nova, you will instantly teleport 10 yards behind you.

lol wat?

So they stripped out all the gameplay from Arcane... and gave it to Frost??

Now frost gets its own Blink, plus the baseline blink. Plus all the deep freeze gameplay that Arcane mages were designed around. Plus more actual spells to use. Plus a pet. Plus pet spells. Plus all the basic spells that all specs get. Plus better CC and utility than Arcane. Plus better burst and equal DPS. Wtf is Arcane supposed to be for again??


So their way of 'pruning mage abilities' was basically stripping all the abilities from one spec, and giving them to the other. Wtf!?


What I don't understand is, how can Blizz be this oblivious.

How can they be adding new spells and mechanics to one spec, and stripping the other spec, breaking it apart, and pushing its spells up as talents.


Under what logical framework does it make sense to give Frost a ton of additional stuff, and to take baseline Arcane abilities, make them talents and then call it a job well done?


Like REALLY wtf is going on at Blizz?? Does anyone have a clue?

[Tyralis]

I think it is more than that. There is definitely something very strange going on.

Just looking at the patch notes now, I notice this as a Frost only upgrade:

Improved Frost Nova - After casting Frost Nova, you will instantly teleport 10 yards behind you.

lol wat?

Like REALLY wtf is going on at Blizz?? Does anyone have a clue?

Yup lol.

This has to be the weirdest and most useless perk in the game.

[Zathrendar]

Frost is too powerful - lets make frost more powerful!

I think Professor Putricide has taken over them.

Oh well, it's still alpha.

[Grogfoot]

It was clarified on twitter that it remains up for 12 seconds, explodes as many times as you lance it.

Thank you!

Its funny as I read through all these comments and how we are all analyzing how they will affect our performance in raids or pvp, but I'm actually most deeply struck by the removal of common spells and making them spec specific.

For soloing, questing, etc., I've had arcane explosion and fire blast on easy-to-reach keys for so many years now. End of an era, I guess.

[Alexand3r]

Concerns:

1) Presence of Mind: As others have said, what on Earth am I going to use this spell for? Only Arcane Blast?
2) With most spells restricted to the other schools, I feel that Arcane should at least get something else. For example, while I know that PvP will be different from what it is today, a spell to fill Deep Freeze's spot would be welcome.
3) Couldn't Frostfire Bolt stay for all specialisations? It's a pity to see it go for Arcane (even if rarely used).
4) Slow not having target limit and Improved Blink are nice additions, but as I said in my second point, I think Arcane should get something else to survive in PvP (I'm just speculating, of course. With less CC and less melee mobility Arcane could actually be good in PvP, but without trying we cannot know for certain).
5) While I love the fact that there will be more distinction between our specialisations, I also miss the "elementalist" feeling Mages once had.
6) Improved Frost Nova (and maybe Improved Blink) should be a glyph, in my opinion.
7) I'm still not sure that Evanesce should replace Ice Block.


It's Alpha so I'm sure we'll see more changes in the future. Of course, it is important that we share our concerns with Blizzard (In a civilised way, I would add).

[Alias Node]

With spells now replacing what use to be baseline, frostfire bolt, fireblast etc. now if arcane gets school locked, they truly are fucked with not a thing to cast.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

That's MY issue. I still like to use other schools pells as Arcane. >_<

[Tirilka]

Overall I like the changes, but Frost bomb nerf made me sad. So, in those 12 seconds I would get ~2 Fingers of Frost on average. That makes 2 explosions, which don't even proc Brain Freeze anymore. And they deal only 1/4 of their current damage. I could cast the old Frost Bomb those same ~2 times in 12 sec.
While now I can neatly align my Frost bomb to go off and proc brain freeze right when I need it during Alter Time, to alternate brain freeze and Fingers of Frost procs to make most use of 2pc T16. And it deals a nice amount of damage, too. And the delayed damage concept is cool.

So, all in all, it got nerfed so hard, it deals 4x less damage, and doesn't proc brain freeze. Can be cast in motion, though, that's a plus, I guess. Maybe in WoD there will be more Fingers of Frost procs, but to deal same damage, I should practically spam ice lance non-stop. 4 lances in ~7 seconds to trigger four 25% explosions.

[zomgDPS]

With spells now replacing what use to be baseline, frostfire bolt, fireblast etc. now if arcane gets school locked, they truly are fucked with not a thing to cast.

Consensus across the wow-O-sphere is forming that Blizz has thrown in the towel as far as even attempting to make Arcane pvp viable.

I just still don't understand why they went at Arcane with such a massive nerf hammer though. It wasn't like the spec was utterly dominating everything.

I also just cannot seem to fathom exactly what they think Arcane is now. I am literally at a loss for what exactly Arcane brings to the table. There is literally not a single situation across the entire game, pvp or pve or solo or grped or single target or aoe or damage or CC or utility or extended burst or short term burst or practically any other thing where Arcane has even a sliver of a chance to outperform any of the other specs or have even a hope of competing.

There just aren't enough spells that WoD Arcane mages have to do anything with. An interesting point, Arcane mages 'lost' the largest number of spells with WoD (relative to the other specs). Given that Arcane mages already had the least number of spells available, I just cannot understand why Blizz needed to increase the gap between Arcane and other specs even more.


As I mentioned in my opening post, this entire thing is starting to look more and more like a total and utter kaleidoscope of utter fails, all lined up for all to see.

[Zathrendar]

PoM synergising with Slow to make it apply in a radius would be good... at least then POM wouldn't be utter tripe.