6.0 Warrior changes discussion thread

[Zirhark]

... A lot of Arms warriors use slam to dump rage. Whether or not it's on the GCD has nothing to do with effectiveness (effectiveness can be tuned), just smoothness

Just remember they removed slam as well because they didn't like that game play either.

[Earthbound]

Assuming Fury gets a rage dump, and assuming it's ON the GCD - it's going to feel like crap yes, but it will work similarly. Yeah it's going to cost you a GCD, yeah it feels clunky. I play my assassination rogue and i think to myself "man it would be nice if dispatch wasn't on the GCD so i wouldn't have to slow my roll, delaying another mutilate or envenom" but it is. A lot of Arms warriors use slam to dump rage. Whether or not it's on the GCD has nothing to do with effectiveness (effectiveness can be tuned), just smoothness

Yeah, cool, but Slam doesn't exist anymore.

[87Octane]

That's not the point im trying to make - im saying Arms had typically used an "on the GCD" dump, Fury warriors can live with it too. Assuming a dump returns

[Earthbound]

That's not the point im trying to make - im saying Arms had typically used an "on the GCD" dump, Fury warriors can live with it too. Assuming a dump returns

You realize Arms still had Heroic Strike for when it was needed, right?

[Bloodletters]

^ Arms had Heroic Strike when it was needed and because of Sudden Death procs, it simply wasn't able to plan around CS dumps like Fury was. It's not the same thing.

[Odina]

Most anti HS arguments seem to also coincide with another issue... clickers cant click a GCD ability and a non GCD ability at the same time ERGO they tend to macro them so they only need to click 1 ability and or do not see the full potential in an off the GCD ability as clicking cannot get the full benefits like keybinders get.

Id be curious to know how many of the people that hate HS also click most of there abilities.

[meteo]

Purge the scourge! Firebert has wandered in our beloved warrior forum. I haven't seen a single case where people were able to reason with him as he is a very special snowflake who does everything in a new "better" way than all the other people doing whatever he's trying to improve. Don't waste too much time trying to convert him to reason. It won't work.


b2t: I really hope there are a lot of changes still comming. Fury without HS and Arms with the current abilites both look awful.

[87Octane]

It's not neccessary to so efficiently dump rage, you guys just like it... semantics
an "off GCD" ability is neat, I like it - but it's not needed.

A lot of classes have to delay their precious rotation and waste uptime. I agree that you could "trim the fat" with HS in both specs and I loved it, but we're arguing over a small thing here. Bloodletter - I forgot about that, but that minor DPS difference won't keep such an irregular ability off the chopping block.

[Earthbound]

It's not neccessary to so efficiently dump rage, you guys just like it... semantics
an "off GCD" ability is neat, I like it - but it's not needed.

A lot of classes have to delay their precious rotation and waste uptime. I agree that you could "trim the fat" in both specs and I loved it, but we're arguing over a small thing here.

It IS needed. Warriors are the only class that DPSes with a resource that is not predictable.

[Trubo]

That's not the point im trying to make - im saying Arms had typically used an "on the GCD" dump, Fury warriors can live with it too. Assuming a dump returns

Not sure if you're aware but here is a list of all of Arms' current abilities that consume Rage:

1. Overpower (10 Rage)
2. Slam (30 Rage)
3. Execute (30 Rage)
4. Heroic Strike/Cleave (30 Rage)
5. Thunderclap (20 Rage)
6. Sweeping Strikes (30 Rage)

On single target fights abilities 5 and 6 are never used, leaving mostly 1, 2 and 4 outside of procs for 3 and sub 20%. On AoE fights abilities 5 and 6 get priorities over 1, 3, and 4. This is only made possible when you have attacks generating Rage (Mortal Strike) and/or don't consume Rage (Colossus Smash, Bladestorm). Heroic Strike, while rarely used as Arms compared to Fury, still served a purpose as an off the GCD Rage dump in those instances where you just couldn't consume Rage fast enough.

Now if we had the MoP Arms rotation over what's provided on WoD there wouldn't be much a change losing HS. But we don't see that as nothing outside of auto-attacks generate Rage so each ability's use is restricted to a 3.6 second pre-Haste lowering, leading to lots of downtime and boredom.

[Deleted]

Please keep it civil guys, the thread is starting to derail a little

[Odina]

It's not neccessary to so efficiently dump rage, you guys just like it... semantics
an "off GCD" ability is neat, I like it - but it's not needed.

A lot of classes have to delay their precious rotation and waste uptime.

In most cases most things are not necessary but people do like to have the choice and removing choice is hardly ever a good thing. EX: do Mages really need 3 specs all to dps? Do we really need different classes to be able to heal or could we just have "healer", do we need to have mana, focus, energy and rage or could we just have "resource" for every one?

I don't know of any classes that really work on a rotation anymore! Most of them have a priority system where by they will use the highest priority spell in order and many of them even with the priority will delay a higher priority spell to line up with a CD or proc. Do you have to wait for that trinkets ITC to go off in 5 seconds before firing off that spell? No but you have the choice to min max if you so choose and that is not a bad thing!

[87Octane]

I like HS, like it just fine. I like the depth for sure. But saying it needs to stay simply because its faster response is more efficient in dumping rage and thereby wasting less rage isn't going to save it.

[Trubo]

It's not necessary to so efficiently dump rage, you guys just like it... semantics
an "off GCD" ability is neat, I like it - but it's not needed.

A lot of classes have to delay their precious rotation and waste uptime. I agree that you could "trim the fat" with HS in both specs and I loved it, but we're arguing over a small thing here. Bloodletter - I forgot about that, but that minor DPS difference won't keep such an irregular ability off the chopping block.

Proper HS usage as Fury can lead to 7%-10% of our total damage, how is that a minor DPS difference?

[87Octane]

Proper HS usage as Fury can lead to 7%-10% of our total damage, how is that a minor DPS difference?

And what % of that 7-10% is from using HS purely as a rage dump to prevent capping (outside of CS). And yes Blizzard would think that cutting 10% of your DPS to simplify mechanics would be justifiable. They'll just bake that 10% back in.

[Earthbound]

And what % of that 7-10% is from using HS purely as a rage dump (outside of CS)

That's not an applicable question during this tier, because of our 2 set bonus. Right now, you spam it on CD inside CS because the rage generated from using it offsets the fact that it dumps so much.

[Trubo]

And what % of that 7-10% is from using HS purely as a rage dump to prevent capping (outside of CS).

Ah, that's what you meant. To be quite frank I don't know the exact numbers as I don't track the damage I do with every single Heroic Strike. That said though you're failing to consider something else when it comes to using Heroic Strike primarily as a Rage dump for excess Rage generation: using it whenever you can leads to fewer RBs, WS and Executes, all of which deal significantly more damage than HS in terms of DPS, DPE and DPR.

[87Octane]

That's not an applicable question during this tier, because of our 2 set bonus. Right now, you spam it on CD inside CS because the rage generated from using it offsets the fact that it dumps so much.

Then take off that tier and meet me outside the bar buddy! but seriously - im in agreement with all of you. Calm down, but it's not sticking around just because it's a neat optimization tool. I'm sure fury will get something to dump (in and out of CS). Im just saying that off-GCD is really nice, but not mandatory. Like Bloodletters said, you'll see if you have time to use the dump before CS - if not you'll go over cap and lose efficiency . But oh well, a lot of classes are clunky, why not a warrior? :\

[regularspecial]

Then take off that tier and meet me outside the bar buddy! but seriously - im in agreement with all of you. Calm down, but it's not sticking around just because it's a neat optimization tool. I'm sure fury will get something to dump (in and out of CS). Im just saying that off-GCD is really nice, but not mandatory. Like Bloodletters said, you'll see if you have time to use the dump before CS - if not you'll go over cap (sadface)

Please go watch the videos Collision has linked before you spew any nonsense. It is impossible for fury not to cap without a way to bleed rage.

Comparing rage to energy or focus is silly. The nature of our resources requires us to have an off the GCD way to dump rage, else we are wasting our resource.

It's not "neat". It's required for our resource to be used in the optimal way, and I can't imagine blizzard will be content with rage having no way to be used optimally. HS coming back or WS being removed from the GCD is a must.

[Firebert]

Efficiency does not necessarily mean optimal though which is what people are trying to explain to you.

Except I have no open GCDs and 100% of my rage is going to DPS and I never cap... so it's optimal

And again, if you don't like HS there already is an alternative in WoD with Ignite Weapon

I'd still macro it, it's basically the same ability except Fire not Physical plus bonus.

I'm sorry man, I just can't take anything seriously a LFR super star says.

It's nice to know you resort to ad hominem instead of staying on topic.

It's not neccessary to so efficiently dump rage, you guys just like it... semantics

I agree with this guy, seems like nostalgia.

Proper HS usage as Fury can lead to 7%-10% of our total damage, how is that a minor DPS difference?

http://i.imgur.com/GjzDzWu.jpg
Looks like I'm using it properly if I've macroed it and still hit that target...

HS coming back or WS being removed from the GCD is a must.

There's also WS using all your rage on the GCD, so if you know you're about to cap you can dump all your rage.