6.0 Warrior changes discussion thread

[Cyclonus-WOW]

just buff avatar give it 50% critical chance and 20% crit dmg and make it replace recklessness

Personally would love to see this. All the warriors going huge/avatar mode during lust. Would be pretty sweet as I wish I had more use cases for Avatar currently.

[Artunias]

Personally would love to see this. All the warriors going huge/avatar mode during lust. Would be pretty sweet as I wish I had more use cases for Avatar currently.

I'd love to see Avatar be competitive in its tier, it's a real shame it basically never gets used now.

[Pua]

Wat..? Why? :S Do u mean to make Avatar baseline, or that we will have no cd except the one we choose in the lvl 90 tier?

Personally, I'd like to see Recklessness removed and Avatar replace it at baseline. I've always disliked Recklessness for the reasons Eranthe posted; it can end up doing absolutely nothing for you, making it one of the lousiest DPS cooldowns in the game.

[Artunias]

Personally, I'd like to see Recklessness removed and Avatar replace it at baseline. I've always disliked Recklessness for the reasons Eranthe posted; it can end up doing absolutely nothing for you, making it one of the lousiest DPS cooldowns in the game.

I'd be alright with that. Avatar also seems very "warriory" I feel like 3 minutes is too long of a cooldown though.

To replace it, it should be something AoE focused in the talents. Maybe that could be a way to bring back slam aoe

Blade Dancing (someone come up with a cool name):

Arms - Slam and execute now hit all targets within 5 yards of the primary target for 50% damage while sweeping strikes is active
Fury - Raging blow now hits twice as many targets while your meat cleaver buff is active
Prot - Shield slam hits all targets within 5 yards for 50% damage when on sword and board procs (idk, just throwing that one out lol)

Basically you have sustained aoe, something between burst and sustain with bloodbath or for 2-4 targets (and let normal sweeping strikes hits get benefit from bloodbath, I'm not actually sure if they already do or not), and then burst aoe with bladestorm.

[Deleted]

I'd be alright with that. Avatar also seems very "warriory" I feel like 3 minutes is too long of a cooldown though.

To replace it, it should be something AoE focused in the talents. Maybe that could be a way to bring back slam aoe

Blade Dancing (someone come up with a cool name):

Arms - Slam and execute now hit all targets within 5 yards of the primary target for 50% damage while sweeping strikes is active
Fury - Raging blow now hits twice as many targets while your meat cleaver buff is active
Prot - Shield slam hits all targets within 5 yards for 50% damage when on sword and board procs (idk, just throwing that one out lol)

Basically you have sustained aoe, something between burst and sustain with bloodbath or for 2-4 targets (and let normal sweeping strikes hits get benefit from bloodbath, I'm not actually sure if they already do or not), and then burst aoe with bladestorm.

I'd really rather not be turned into a class that is only good for how much AoE it can do. We've already got Dragon Roar/Shockwave and Bladestorm, and Ravager if we need lots of AoE, we don't need yet another bloody talent for AoE :P

[Artunias]

I'd really rather not be turned into a class that is only good for how much AoE it can do. We've already got Dragon Roar/Shockwave and Bladestorm, and Ravager if we need lots of AoE, we don't need yet another bloody talent for AoE :P

Just trying to fit in the theme of the tier, haha.

[Secondwind]

I'd really rather not be turned into a class that is only good for how much AoE it can do. We've already got Dragon Roar/Shockwave and Bladestorm, and Ravager if we need lots of AoE, we don't need yet another bloody talent for AoE :P

Tier 90 should become Bladestorm, Ravager, and one other AoE ability (maybe Dragon Roar, but DR and Bladestorm fill such similar roles it's hard to see both having a niche, one will always beat the other), so all of the AoE talents show up there, except shockwave. Instead of having 2 baseline aoe abilities and 3 maybes, we end up with 3 baseline aoes and 1 maybe (and the maybe is more useful as an aoe stun than raw damage). Makes a pretty big difference.

[Archimtiros]

i remember when recklessness had a 30 min cd. not only did you have to think carefully about when you used it, but on which boss you used it on. 20 seconds of nearly guaranteed crits made you feel like an unstoppable force, which was cool, but obviously it wouldn't work in the current game. your burst would be too strong and you couldn't even use it on every attempt, which would be annoying.

there's probably a happy medium in ability strength to cooldown ratio, maybe like 8-10 minutes for 5-10 seconds of guaranteed crits. that would feel like a super strong cooldown and you'd probably only get 1 use of it during the fight, so you'd need to think carefully about when it would be most effective.

I remember it too, but you know what else I remember that you are forgetting? Sitting around 10 minutes waiting to pull. There is no advantage to that type of gameplay and it doesn't make the game fun. Being able to use your abilities once a login session, or once a BG isn't fun either. This isn't D&D 1 day cooldowns.

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I'd be alright with that. Avatar also seems very "warriory" I feel like 3 minutes is too long of a cooldown though.

To replace it, it should be something AoE focused in the talents. Maybe that could be a way to bring back slam aoe

Blade Dancing (someone come up with a cool name):

Arms - Slam and execute now hit all targets within 5 yards of the primary target for 50% damage while sweeping strikes is active
Fury - Raging blow now hits twice as many targets while your meat cleaver buff is active
Prot - Shield slam hits all targets within 5 yards for 50% damage when on sword and board procs (idk, just throwing that one out lol)

Basically you have sustained aoe, something between burst and sustain with bloodbath or for 2-4 targets (and let normal sweeping strikes hits get benefit from bloodbath, I'm not actually sure if they already do or not), and then burst aoe with bladestorm.

As Exhil said, we have more than enough AoE at the moment, in fact I daresay a few times we have too much. More than we could use on burst (which most encounters are) and so much that the abilities overlap and trip over themselves during sustained.

All they need for Recklessness is bump it up a bit. There is nothing wrong with the CD or how it works, it just needs a buff. No one had any complaints about it this tier at 30%.

[sjsctt]

I remember when reck shared a CD with shield wall and retaliation...but this thread is 6.0 related :P

And I agree with arch. You would literally sit on those CDs until it was an emergency, and even then you would sometimes sit on them and they would just never get used. It wasn't fun.

[Enyasi]

Tier 90 should become Bladestorm, Ravager, and one other AoE ability (maybe Dragon Roar, but DR and Bladestorm fill such similar roles it's hard to see both having a niche, one will always beat the other), so all of the AoE talents show up there, except shockwave. Instead of having 2 baseline aoe abilities and 3 maybes, we end up with 3 baseline aoes and 1 maybe (and the maybe is more useful as an aoe stun than raw damage). Makes a pretty big difference.

I like the idea of an AoE Tier. Ravager, Bladestorm and Blade Barrier (from early Alpha) should do the trick.

What with Stormbolt is made baseline for Fury, without the stun component and big dmg to unstunnable targets? So a talent in the same tier as Shockwave could add stun to the SB. That way it doens't break PvP and you have to choose between AoE or single target stun.

Also, I like the idea of turning Avatar a baseline CD. Maybe turn Recklessness a Talent (like they are doing to mage's mirror image) and buff it to be competitive? Avatar could add the 20% dmg increase it does and for Arms add some Mastery, for Fury some Crit (or Multi Strike) and for Prot Mastery (or Crit, or both, or another). All classes have a CD that directly increases their dmg (heal) output. We shouldn't have a CD that maybe will increase the dmg output (in early tiers).

[Archimtiros]

I like the idea of an AoE Tier. Ravager, Bladestorm and Blade Barrier (from early Alpha) should do the trick.

What with Stormbolt is made baseline for Fury, without the stun component and big dmg to unstunnable targets? So a talent in the same tier as Shockwave could add stun to the SB. That way it doens't break PvP and you have to choose between AoE or single target stun.

Also, I like the idea of turning Avatar a baseline CD. Maybe turn Recklessness a Talent (like they are doing to mage's mirror image) and buff it to be competitive? Avatar could add the 20% dmg increase it does and for Arms add some Mastery, for Fury some Crit (or Multi Strike) and for Prot Mastery (or Crit, or both, or another). All classes have a CD that directly increases their dmg (heal) output. We shouldn't have a CD that maybe will increase the dmg output (in early tiers).

There is no maybe though, its a scaling talent. It's only problem is 15% is too weak and is incredibly underwhelming for its cooldown.
Storm Bolt wont get baseline (though I would love it!).
And the only issue with putting all the AoE talents on a single tier is you dont really get a lot of decision making. Bladestorm v Ravager... well you are always going to take the one that is scaled the best and does the most damage. The talents would have to be wildly different for there to be decision making in there; and I think that is the reason the talents were spread out more than they are.

I was the first to say that I think the amount of AoE talents we have access to is a bit overdone; I don't think it is particularly a problem. If anything, it frees us to look at an encounter, decide how much AoE we need, take those talents and then pass up the others in lieu of Single Target cooldowns. Whether or not it will work out like that in practice is determined by the encounter design.

[Eranthe]

I remember it too, but you know what else I remember that you are forgetting? Sitting around 10 minutes waiting to pull. There is no advantage to that type of gameplay and it doesn't make the game fun. Being able to use your abilities once a login session, or once a BG isn't fun either. This isn't D&D 1 day cooldowns.

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As Exhil said, we have more than enough AoE at the moment, in fact I daresay a few times we have too much. More than we could use on burst (which most encounters are) and so much that the abilities overlap and trip over themselves during sustained.

All they need for Recklessness is bump it up a bit. There is nothing wrong with the CD or how it works, it just needs a buff. No one had any complaints about it this tier at 30%.

WARNING: OPINION BELOW

i think it's shitty at 30%. the only reason it's not the worst thing ever is because bloodthirst has double crit chance. i just haven't mentioned it because it hasn't come up.

i think an 8-10 min cd (provided that it was sufficiently powerful) would be okay, especially if it got reset on wipe, so it wouldn't even be an issue in pve. but it's whatever, if recklessness is meh, it won't be the end of the world.

[Artunias]

The WoD version I think would acceptable at 20-25% and 1 minute cooldown. At low gear levels it could still be crap, but at higher gear levels it would be decent and at least then you could line it up with some of the bigger talents /shrug.

I'd still like to see Avatar be competitve, talent or no.

[Artorius]

What with Stormbolt is made baseline for Fury, without the stun component and big dmg to unstunnable targets? So a talent in the same tier as Shockwave could add stun to the SB. That way it doens't break PvP and you have to choose between AoE or single target stun.

I'd love if blizzard devs were that smart, best solution for PVE/PVP SB interaction so far.

WARNING: OPINION BELOW

i think it's shitty at 30%. the only reason it's not the worst thing ever is because bloodthirst has double crit chance. i just haven't mentioned it because it hasn't come up.

i think an 8-10 min cd (provided that it was sufficiently powerful) would be okay, especially if it got reset on wipe, so it wouldn't even be an issue in pve. but it's whatever, if recklessness is meh, it won't be the end of the world.

I believe the problem with it is related to PVP, since they're >apparently< removing strong bursts from everyone...
But sincerely I agree with you, a 10min CD that you can only use once at an Arena match should be fine...

[Cyclonus-WOW]

you are always going to take the one that is scaled the best and does the most damage. The talents would have to be wildly different for there to be decision making in there; and I think that is the reason the talents were spread out more than they are.

This. Right now it looks like warrior DPS are going to be little tornadoes with blades sticking out. Making my choice of warrior name all the more appropriate. Ultimately we have to hope the encounters themselves lead us to made a decision or two for different combinations. I'd comment on the suck that reck has become, but I don't even get to use it as prot .

[Keensteel]

10 min CD's... Really? C'mon really?

Dumbest fucking thing I have ever read. and...

I will say it again.

DUMBEST FUCKING THING EVER!

Please keep it civil. Infracted

[Trubo]

WARNING: OPINION BELOW

i think it's shitty at 30%. the only reason it's not the worst thing ever is because bloodthirst has double crit chance. i just haven't mentioned it because it hasn't come up.

i think an 8-10 min cd (provided that it was sufficiently powerful) would be okay, especially if it got reset on wipe, so it wouldn't even be an issue in pve. but it's whatever, if recklessness is meh, it won't be the end of the world.

AotD is the only 10 minute personal cd this game needs.

[Artorius]

AotD is the only 10 minute personal cd this game needs.

There is also this thing

[Keensteel]

Speaking of 10 min CD's, over on the mage forums they are calling for a 10 minute CD for Execute because it hits really, really hard and it can kill you. #civil #yolo

Don't you do it, sjsctt. Nothing to see here, folks. Please move along.

Darkfiend ain't got nothing on me...

[Juni]

Speaking of 10 min CD's, over on the mage forums they are calling for a 10 minute CD for Execute because it hits really, really hard and it can kill you. #civil #yolo

Don't you do it, sjsctt. Nothing to see here, folks. Please move along.

Darkfiend ain't got nothing on me...

Lol mages. lolololol.

But putting something on a 10 min cd would require the cd to be insanely powerful to actually warrant it. Current alpha version of Reck really isn't strong enough for that kind of a cd.