Resto - 6.0 latest patch notes discussion

[Danshot]

what gems/enchants do resto shaman want?

[ValiumMm]

We are most definitely not the strongest healer anymore, but we have our niche situations where we perform really well.

We have 0 niche, our niche was stacked healing, which now any other healing can do the same if not more. And how is this even a point, your whole conclusions is that "but we have our niche situation". Why would anyone want to have this in the first place(if it was true) its like youre just accepting the fact that we are bad, and just looking on the bright side. 40%+ of our heals are from chain heal but we still cant keep up with other healers in a stacked situation, they need to buff HR a bit, its pathetically low atm.

[Deleted]

We have 0 niche, our niche was stacked healing, which now any other healing can do the same if not more. And how is this even a point, your whole conclusions is that "but we have our niche situation". Why would anyone want to have this in the first place(if it was true) its like youre just accepting the fact that we are bad, and just looking on the bright side. 40%+ of our heals are from chain heal but we still cant keep up with other healers in a stacked situation, they need to buff HR a bit, its pathetically low atm.

You're right, I'm accepting that we're bad at the moment because there is literally nothing I can do about it.
What I can do instead is to look on the bright side, and focus on improving the areas where we are at least somewhat useful and making sure that I can do that one hundred percent.

They definitely need to rethink healing rain and our smart heals in general.
If they're not smart they need to be powerful, if they're not powerful they need to be smart.

Unleash life feels so weird at the moment, using a global to buff your next healing in the same time you would be able to cast two heals feels so useless.
Using it with Chain heal feels , but I still don't like having to use two globals in order to empower one.

[shammypie]

You're right, I'm accepting that we're bad at the moment because there is literally nothing I can do about it.
What I can do instead is to look on the bright side, and focus on improving the areas where we are at least somewhat useful and making sure that I can do that one hundred percent.

They definitely need to rethink healing rain and our smart heals in general.
If they're not smart they need to be powerful, if they're not powerful they need to be smart.

Unleash life feels so weird at the moment, using a global to buff your next healing in the same time you would be able to cast two heals feels so useless.
Using it with Chain heal feels , but I still don't like having to use two globals in order to empower one.

it's usefull for saving mana or when you have heavy spread AE healing and forced to use the glyph

[Deleted]

How is multistrike working out for resto? I know mastery should be our go to stat, but seen a few shamans going round with multistrike enchants and gems

[Deleted]

From my point of view the multistrike not powerful enough for the shaman healer because of its ratio to the points invested.

I think the best stats are in this order:
Spirit> mastery> / = critical> Versatility> Multistrike

[Protoman]

Shaman don't get any real bonus benefit from multistrike. Like for example, Holy pallys get some procs off their heals like a free holy shock or reduced cast time on heals. So a multistrike from one of those heals gives an extra chance to get that proc. Even tho the actual heal from multistrike is low, the benefit of the proc is very good. Shaman have nothing like that.... for all specs.... Elem/Enh have their main proc from flameshock dot ticks, and Resto doesn't have any procs like that. So this doesn't really make multistrike very attractive. Its really stupid design if you ask me.

I pretty much gave up on my Shaman, so I haven't played much as Resto.... but I will say that I think they need to bring back smart heals on HST. The whole point of totems is that they are supposed to feel powerful and useful, they need the smart heals as they are basically like a mini version of us that heals..... its so stupid how it will heal any random target, whether they are at 10% or 90% HP. Blizz needs to realize that not all classes are designed the same.... some have smart heals because they are designed around them, like Shaman. HST is useless to all Shaman because it is currently dumb healing.

[Deleted]

I don't think resto is that bad. I am finding so far that dps not doing their job is whats wiping my groups. There is only so much you can do now to 'carry' a group, dps need to be smarter, but hasn't this always been the case????

[Khai]

Anybody test Winged Hourglass trinket? Does it proc off our heals or is it still bugged? wtb base int + spirit proc

[rheeah]

Just starting to try to figure stat priorities; until I can get my stat weight addon working again, here is how it looks to me:

Raw numbers:
36.67 Mastery Rating = +1% Mastery, but with 5% Purification passive, this become 34.92 = +1% Mastery.
65.9 Multistrike Rating = +1% Multistrike = +0.6% raw healing; thus, 110 Multistrike = +1% healing
100 Haste Rating = +1% Haste, but with 5% Ancestral Swiftness and 5% Grace of Air buff, 90.7 Haste = +1%
110 Crit Rating = +1% Crit chance; thus 110 Crit rating = +1% healing in PvE (and +6 Spirit, see below)
130 Versatility = +1% healing (and 0.5% damage reduction)

100 Spirit = 525 MP5

100 Intelligence is about +2.5% healing at 4k spellpower, so it will be much better than any secondary stat for a while.

I estimated the Spirit value of Crit Rating by assuming endless spam of Riptide/HW/HW. That is fairly optimistic. It works out to 110 points of Crit Rating being as effective for regen as about 6-7 points of Spirit.

Crit and Multistrike are equal in throughput, to first order, but Crit gives Resurgence (feeble as it is), while Multistrike criticals *do not* proc Resurgence. Thus, Crit > Multistrike, at least until we take overhealing into account. If we do, Crit is more likely to result in overhealing than Multistrike, obviously, so if overhealing is included, Multistrike must be slightly better in terms of throughput. But overall, these stats are extremely close, and the difference between them is probably negligible.

Without the 5% Purification buff, Mastery beats Crit/Multistrike when the target's health is 66% or lower. With the 5% Purification buff, the break-even point moves up to 68.2%.

Mastery beats Versatility (for throughput) when the target's health is below 73%.

For pure throughput, Haste is extremely good thanks to the two 5% buffs it receives. It beats Mastery unless the target's health is 61% or lower. Of course, the problem with Haste is always running out of mana; that argues against stacking it too heavily, but point for point it's certainly a good stat (and the throughput gains on HoTs and Totems do not cost any extra mana).

To summarize:

Mastery > Haste below 61%
Mastery > Critical or Multistrike below 68%
Mastery > Versatility below 73%

[Koor]

100 Spirit = 525 MP5

Out of combat? I think in combat 100 spirit is 206 MP5.

Crit and Multistrike are equal in throughput, to first order, but Crit gives Resurgence (feeble as it is), while Multistrike criticals *do not* proc Resurgence. Thus, Crit > Multistrike, at least until we take overhealing into account. If we do, Crit is more likely to result in overhealing than Multistrike, obviously, so if overhealing is included, Multistrike must be slightly better in terms of throughput. But overall, these stats are extremely close, and the difference between them is probably negligible.

Another point currently in favor of crit is that ascendance and ancestral guidance copy crits, but ignore multistrikes. Hopefully blizzard will fix this.

Without the 5% Purification buff, Mastery beats Crit/Multistrike when the target's health is 66% or lower. With the 5% Purification buff, the break-even point moves up to 68.2%. Mastery beats Versatility (for throughput) when the target's health is below 73%.

Did you assume particular stats on gear when calculating the above thresholds?

I think the thresholds aren't fixed but depend on the current stats, since each heal benefits from all the stats in a multiplicative fashion. For example, if we have zero mastery and heal someone with near zero HP, 1% additional mastery will increase the heal by 1%. However, if we already have 100% mastery, 1% additional mastery will increase the heal only by approximately 0.5%. Same for crit - 1% crit will improve the average heal by 1% only if we have zero crit (assuming no overheal), therefore to compare crit and mastery, we need to know the base stats before the upgrade.

[rheeah]

Out of combat? I think in combat 100 spirit is 206 MP5.

Yes, you're right - I forgot that there is a large base regen even with Spirit = 0.

I think the thresholds aren't fixed but depend on the current stats, since each heal benefits from all the stats in a multiplicative fashion. For example, if we have zero mastery and heal someone with near zero HP, 1% additional mastery will increase the heal by 1%. However, if we already have 100% mastery, 1% additional mastery will increase the heal only by approximately 0.5%. Same for crit - 1% crit will improve the average heal by 1% only if we have zero crit (assuming no overheal), therefore to compare crit and mastery, we need to know the base stats before the upgrade.

Yes, the part I bolded is certainly true, but I don't think it follows that the thresholds are gear-dependent. It is sort of an artifact of thinking about things in percentage terms.

At any achievable gear level, +110 Crit Rating and +110 Multistrike Rating will increase your healing output by nearly the same (absolute) amount, and likewise, +110 Mastery and +110 Crit Rating will also increase your healing output by the same (absolute) amount, if the target is at 68% health. That is (I think) what you really care about when deciding how to gem/enchant.

[Deleted]

Anybody test Winged Hourglass trinket? Does it proc off our heals or is it still bugged? wtb base int + spirit proc

It procs off heals. Out of combat as well.. So earthshielding the tank will trigger it.

[Koor]

Yes, the part I bolded is certainly true, but I don't think it follows that the thresholds are gear-dependent. It is sort of an artifact of thinking about things in percentage terms.

At any achievable gear level, +110 Crit Rating and +110 Multistrike Rating will increase your healing output by nearly the same (absolute) amount, and likewise, +110 Mastery and +110 Crit Rating will also increase your healing output by the same (absolute) amount, if the target is at 68% health. That is (I think) what you really care about when deciding how to gem/enchant.

I think the absolute number turns out to be the same only if we start from a baseline of 0% mastery and 0% crit. For any other case, crit and mastery interact in a multiplicative way. For example:


Suppose we start with 0% crit and 0% mastery, a base heal of 10000 for the spellpower, and target at 68% health.


+110 crit rating = 1% crit. We will heal for 1.01 * 10000 = 10100.
+110 mastery = 3% mastery (took the 36.67 factor). We will heal for [1+0.03 * (1-0.68)] * 10000 = 10096.


So indeed about the same.


Now, let's assume we start with 100% mastery and 0% crit.
Before the gear upgrade, our spell will heal for [1+1*(1-0.68)] * 10000 = 1.32 * 10000 = 13200.
With +110 crit rating, we will heal for 1.01 * [1+1*(1-0.68)] * 10000 = 1.01 * 1.32 * 10000 = 13332. Difference 13332 - 13200 = 132.
With +110 mastery, we will heal for 1.00 * [1+1.03*(1-0.68)] * 10000 = 1.00 * 1.3296 * 10000 = 13296. Difference 13296 - 13200 = 96.
--> crit is more beneficial in this case.


And the other case, let's assume we start with 0% mastery and 30% crit.
Before the gear upgrade, our spell will heal on average for 1.3 * 10000 = 13000.
With +110 crit rating, we will heal for 1.31 * 10000 = 13100. Difference 13100 - 13000 = 100.
With +110 mastery, we will heal for 1.30 * [1+0.03*(1-0.68)] * 10000 = 1.30 * 1.0096 * 10000 = 13125. Difference 13125 - 13000 = 125.
--> mastery is more beneficial in this case.


In the first case (heavy mastery build), adding crit provided the biggest absolute difference, and in the second case (heavy crit build), the situation was reversed, and adding mastery provided bigger difference.

[Xeonii]

Need help deciding between heroic helm and engineering goggles

ilvl 640 Eng Goggles:
184 Int
93 Haste
139 Multistrike

ilvl 630 Heroic helm:
167 Int
109 Haste
113 Mastery

Is mastery THAT good that I should use the heroic helm until I can reroll the eng goggle stats?

[Holofernes]

No. INT is that good that you should take it over anything else. There is no base spellpower anymore. adding to your spellpower is the most important thing in wod.

[Xeonii]

No. INT is that good that you should take it over anything else. There is no base spellpower anymore. adding to your spellpower is the most important thing in wod.

Thank you. By the way, I read that as "most important thing in the wod."
xD

[Deleted]

What's the deal with versatility at the moment?
Trying to decide if I should pick a crit/versatily 540ilvl piece of gear or a crit/haste 540ilvl piece of gear

[caelym]

What's the deal with versatility at the moment?
Trying to decide if I should pick a crit/versatily 540ilvl piece of gear or a crit/haste 540ilvl piece of gear

Haste>vers. Anything to make healing wave cast faster.