Lore of the Diablo universe

[Mormolyce]

Even Andariel. I'd love to see her again.

So would I.

*eyebrow waggle*

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That's true, but Aidan wasn't a Nephalem. Maybe there's some loophole there. I just personally find it really boring that you can't ever legitimately kill any of them, especially when its totally possible to do so to Angels.

Maybe the angels eventually rebirth out of the Arch though. That would be interesting, especially if they come back different.

[KrazyK923]

Well from what little we know (And I don't profess to be an end-all, be-all expert on Diablo lore. I haven't read most of the secondary lore yet), I believe the Crystal Arch just births a new Archangel if one of them dies. Im not sure if they are the same person/mentality/soul/whatever you want to call it, but I don't think they are. We just don't know enough about Heaven yet. I personally found it pretty cool when the 4 other Angiris Council members were totally lost as to why the Crystal Arch didn't birth a new Archangel when Malthael disappeared (Since some of them thought he had left and then died). It was nifty to see that even them didn't know how that worked.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Well from what little we know (And I don't profess to be an end-all, be-all expert on Diablo lore. I haven't read most of the secondary lore yet), I believe the Crystal Arch just births a new Archangel if one of them dies. Im not sure if they are the same person/mentality/soul/whatever you want to call it, but I don't think they are. We just don't know enough about Heaven yet. I personally found it pretty cool when the 4 other Angiris Council members were totally lost as to why the Crystal Arch didn't birth a new Archangel when Malthael disappeared (Since some of them thought he had left and then died). It was nifty to see that even them didn't know how that worked.

Perhaps Diablo damaged the Crystal Arch too much.

[KrazyK923]

Well the scene that happened regarding Malthael occurred canonically before Diablo 3 if I recall correctly.

[Haven]

There's that one thing that always baffled be: Khanduras went more than 20 years without a king and no one wanted to lay their hands on that land. Not even the king of Westmarch who denies the existence of demons and had a tooth on Leoric.

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I just personally find it really boring that you can't ever legitimately kill any of them, especially when its totally possible to do so to Angels.

"Place the soulstone upon my head, Nephalem. There must always be... Diablo!"

[Fencers]

That's true, but Aidan wasn't a Nephalem. Maybe there's some loophole there. I just personally find it really boring that you can't ever legitimately kill any of them, especially when its totally possible to do so to Angels.

Aidan not being a Nephlem really has no relevance. The point is the attempt was made by various other powerful people to contain the Evils where destroying them failed.

The ROS ending suggests; 1. the Evils are free 2. the hero Nephalem will be tainted some way in the process of containing the Evil.

It's not possible to kill the angels either. Archangels are the virtues of Anu and all angels are reborn in the crystal arch. I think there is a reference to the angels being separated from the Arch/light in such a way as to recall the separation of Lucifer from God. That's the only device I know of by which the angels are not reborn through the arch. But I forgot where that reference is stated.

[KrazyK923]

Malthael is still the technical Archangel of Wisdom. By all accounts all that happened was that the Angiris Council decided it was cool with letting Tyrael take his place, and he still dies. Also countless other Angels die during Diablo's siege.

I mean, I don't remember what the Book of Cain/Tyrael states about this, but I don't remember them saying the Angels were the same as the Prime Evils in their apparent immortality. Again, could be wrong.

Regarding Aidan being a Nephalem or not, I merely meant they at least had wiggle room to take that story thread that way if they wished.

[Fencers]

They don't really "die". The angels. Otherwise there would be no eternal conflict.

The only way by which the angels "die", and by die I mean not being reborn through the arch, is some kind of separation from the arch. Such as the "fallen angels" no longer part of the virtue or aspect of Anu.

Presumably the same would happen to demons if they ever were separated from the miasma/Gehenna of the Burning Hells. Though it seems extremely rare such events occur. But not impossible as Lilth's own testimony suggests demons are not all mindless destruction and are capable of self reflection. Which logically suggests that some demons do, however rarely, find a separation from the aspect of Tathamet.

Also, Malthael is the Archangel of Death. Stylistically. But he is still the aspect of Anu's wisdom, if corrupted. In fact, Tyreal struggles in the role of Archangel of Wisdom for a time. Because Tyreal is not truly the aspect of Anu's wisdom.

Despite this, it is unlikely Malthael is reborn in the arch due to a separation from Anu's aspect. Which is the same separation with which other "angels" were under when players slew them in Pandemonium.

It may be possible that a new Archangel of either Wisdom or Justice will be reborn through the arch. We have no idea how long angels incubate (so to speak), yet alone how long Archangels take to be reborn. In any case, Malthael "dies" while his connection to the light/arch is gone.

[Haven]

Malthael is still the technical Archangel of Wisdom. By all accounts all that happened was that the Angiris Council decided it was cool with letting Tyrael take his place, and he still dies. Also countless other Angels die during Diablo's siege.

I mean, I don't remember what the Book of Cain/Tyrael states about this, but I don't remember them saying the Angels were the same as the Prime Evils in their apparent immortality. Again, could be wrong.

Regarding Aidan being a Nephalem or not, I merely meant they at least had wiggle room to take that story thread that way if they wished.

Isn't the Crystal Spire supposed to spawn a new angel every time one of them dies?

Despite this, it is unlikely Malthael is reborn in the arch due to a separation from Anu's aspect. Which is the same separation with which other "angels" were under when players slew them in Pandemonium.

But what exactly makes them "corrupted" or separated from Anu? Their decision to slaughter mankind has nothing to do with this, they're still angels. This far only being transformed into a demon (Izual) was an official case of Spire not spawning a replacement.

[KrazyK923]

It may be possible that a new Archangel of either Wisdom or Justice will be reborn through the arch. We have no idea how long angels incubate (so to speak), yet alone how long Archangels take to be reborn. In any case, Malthael "dies" while his connection to the light/arch is gone.

But do you actually know its gone or are you just assuming? Where does it say he's no longer connected? I mean, he did consciously decide that the wisest course of action to stop the conflict, now that the Prime Evil is gone, was to kill Humanity. He took on the moniker of Aspect of Death willingly. Until we're told otherwise, he wasn't corrupted or "lost his way," he came to the decision of his own volition and without clouded judgment.

Anyhow, do we even know that if the Archangels die that they themselves are reincarnated. As in, they remember dying and coming back to life? Or are they entire separate entities. I know we've been given information about how this works for the Prime Evils, but are you assuming it works the same way as angels or does it actually say that somewhere?

You say, at the beginning of your post, that this is why the Eternal Conflict is eternal. I'd again have to question if we ever knew any of the Prime Evils or anybody on the Angiris Council ever dying in the conflict? Because we know common Demons can die. We know common Angels can die. All we concretely know is that the Prime Evils, if their mortal form killed, will persist. They, up to this point with the knowledge we currently have, cannot die. But do we concretely know this about the Archangels? Or is it an assumption. I'm harking on the idea of assuming because unless we concretely know, there's plenty of room for Blizzard to shenanigan around with it. Which they have been doing more and more lately (*Coughs* Time traveling-but-not-time traveling-dimension-traveling-orcs *coughs*).

[Useful]

i dont understand. Imperius joined the reapers? but he was helping us in the siege of Pandemonium fortress! Shuold walk through act5 storyline again but this time paying attention =)

[Kuntantee]

i dont understand. Imperius joined the reapers? but he was helping us in the siege of Pandemonium fortress! Shuold walk through act5 storyline again but this time paying attention =)

who says that?

[KrazyK923]

Imperius doesn't join the Reapers...

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Leveling my Crusader and I noticed Zoltun Kulle does the same that Azmodan does. When Leah is with your party, he goes "You're an interesting one, I wonder if your friends know what you really are..."

And your character responds, assuming it was about him, but Kulle doesn't say who it actually was directed toward.

[Haven]

Leveling my Crusader and I noticed Zoltun Kulle does the same that Azmodan does. When Leah is with your party, he goes "You're an interesting one, I wonder if your friends know what you really are..."

And your character responds, assuming it was about him, but Kulle doesn't say who it actually was directed toward.

Hmm. I thought he said that line in Dalghur Oasis after Leah leaves party. If he actually said that with Leah arond... woah...

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Hmm. I thought he said that line in Dalghur Oasis after Leah leaves party. If he actually said that with Leah arond... woah...

I believe he talks about it when Leah isn't with you. I'M PRETTY CERTAIN. Like 90 certain.

[Combatbutler]

I believe he talks about it when Leah isn't with you. I'M PRETTY CERTAIN. Like 90 certain.

Leah is around for that statement, it is directly after you got his head and go to gather his blood.

And Angels are reborn through the Arch, Tyrael died during the explosion of the world stone and it took him twenty years to reform and was then challenged by Imperius for his actions, why else should he wait twenty years to confront Tyrael.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Leah is around for that statement, it is directly after you got his head and go to gather his blood.

And Angels are reborn through the Arch, Tyrael died during the explosion of the world stone and it took him twenty years to reform and was then challenged by Imperius for his actions, why else should he wait twenty years to confront Tyrael.

Cause Tyrael was on vacation.

[Fencers]

But what exactly makes them "corrupted" or separated from Anu? Their decision to slaughter mankind has nothing to do with this, they're still angels. This far only being transformed into a demon (Izual) was an official case of Spire not spawning a replacement.

But do you actually know its gone or are you just assuming? Where does it say he's no longer connected? I mean, he did consciously decide that the wisest course of action to stop the conflict, now that the Prime Evil is gone, was to kill Humanity. He took on the moniker of Aspect of Death willingly. Until we're told otherwise, he wasn't corrupted or "lost his way," he came to the decision of his own volition and without clouded judgment.

Malthael corrupts himself. He willingly absorbs the black soul stone power within him. And he is the angel of death leading the Reapers. The title is both stylized but also suggestive of Malthael discovering something "else" in his wanderings (his testimony kinda suggests this too). He wouldn't have been the first either.

In the Book of Cain there are Nephalem that discover/find some power that is neither Heavenly or Demonic but tied to the cycle of life & death. Back in D2 the necromancer and the guy at the docks in Kurst talk about this realm passingly.

Anyhow, do we even know that if the Archangels die that they themselves are reincarnated. As in, they remember dying and coming back to life? Or are they entire separate entities. I know we've been given information about how this works for the Prime Evils, but are you assuming it works the same way as angels or does it actually say that somewhere?

The Archangels are their own entities for the most part. Archangels are more singularly aspects of Anu. Like specifically, Justice or Valor.

You say, at the beginning of your post, that this is why the Eternal Conflict is eternal. I'd again have to question if we ever knew any of the Prime Evils or anybody on the Angiris Council ever dying in the conflict?

It has been shown Diablo himself being "killed" by Imperius. However, Imperius can not and does not kill Diablo. In fact, no one does. Diablo is never killed and we know for a fact the other Evils' essence is never destroyed.

But do we concretely know this about the Archangels? Or is it an assumption. I'm harking on the idea of assuming because unless we concretely know, there's plenty of room for Blizzard to shenanigan around with it.

Well it is their lore. So of course Blizzard can change it willy-nilly. There is partly speculation here- because we haven't been told "this happens like this."

However, we do have a good indication of how the cosmology works. What we have been shown and what has been written states that the Eternal Conflict persist because Hell and Heaven can't really get rid of one another. It doesn't make too much sense that the mundane demons and angels are reborn and the Prime Evils dissipated but that the Archangels are never reborn.

The only time we see angels completely annexed from the Crystal Arch are when they are corrupted or otherwise separated from the Heavens. The angels and demons are essentially slaves to their own purpose. Its the only context in which the renegade demons and angels are even sensible.

[KrazyK923]

It has been shown Diablo himself being "killed" by Imperius. However, Imperius can not and does not kill Diablo. In fact, no one does. Diablo is never killed and we know for a fact the other Evils' essence is never destroyed.

Ah, yes, I forgot about that awesome cartoon or whatever you want to call it. Mainly I'm still wishing they'd confirm if Angels/Archangels work the same way as the Prime Evils.

[Deleted]

I really, really want to kill Imperius, I don't really mind how it happens, but my crusader would just love to bludgeon him across the head with her mace. That and I feel like he will make a pretty interesting villain.