Mage Patch Notes ARE Dumbing Down the Class

[GrinningMan]

So it'll finally match the average mage player, amirite?

Infracted. Be constructive please. - Shang

[Vongimi]

Mobility and kiting ability were getting completely out of hand, it had to be cut back (this includes instant casts). This isn't dumbing down, its a nerf.

[TheWorkingTitle]

Ah, then I guess I misunderstood some of what you were saying earlier in this thread.

While it is obviously a change in not being able to use some of the other spells from other schools of magic while specced for another one, I'm not sure why its that big of a problem. I don't think its ever been particularly common for mages of one spec to be using a lot of spells from another tree outside of very specific situations (like kiting as Fire/Arcane, trying to solo old content, etc). At least for the PVE aspects of the game. In PVP, yes, a lot of these different spells were used for their ability to slow, stun, daze, or whatever. But even then I see why they are trying to reset the arms race of all the cc and abilities that ranged and melee have gained over the years to try to counter each other so I don't see it as a problem.

Mages have always had Cone of Cold, Arcane Explosion, Flamestrike, Blizzard, Fireblast, and Frost Nova even in Classic. Removing them from a Mage's arsenal is a huge detriment regardless of the specialization you choose to play as.

[Violetti]

as pve-warlock with a mage-alt i always felt like the diffrence between the speccs is far to small
aside from pure singletargt it feels absolutly the same, same dot(s), same aoe, same utility

deep freeze & blizzard as fire mage wtf

[TheWorkingTitle]

as pve-warlock with a mage-alt i always felt like the diffrence between the speccs is far to small
aside from pure singletargt it feels absolutly the same, same dot(s), same aoe, same utility

deep freeze & blizzard as fire mage wtf

Talent specialization is meant to enhance the power the Mage wields over the Arcane magic. They always could use all spells (as far as Blizzard developers allowed) and this design shift is to completely un-do that. You either want it to happen, or don't like - like me.

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Mages (with the WoD changes) went from being the caster with access to 3 schools of magic (with which to damage you) to having only 1.

This makes mages one of (if not the) only DPS caster in the game that is like this, whilst simultaneously making them the dps caster that is most destroyed by interrupts.

[Deleted]

At the expense of losing valuable others. Keep your passive aggressiveness to yourself. Or are you here to just champion your "I called it" thread, l o l.

Haha, cute. But no, i still stand by current decision of funneling elemental spells into their respective schools while allowing for future expansion of their respective arsenals. Mages are, imho, the only class with a strong Class Identity but weak Specialization Identity. This addresses both. When a new player specs arcane he feels very arcany, then he sees a fire mage flinging pyroblasts and casting blast waves he feels "wow i gotta spec fire".

Right now there's very little difference between specs and with this change mages get a very strong flavour boost.

[Bullettime]

Talent specialization is meant to enhance the power the Mage wields over the Arcane magic. They always could use all spells (as far as Blizzard developers allowed) and this design shift is to completely un-do that. You either want it to happen, or don't like - like me.

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Mages (with the WoD changes) went from being the caster with access to 3 schools of magic (with which to damage you) to having only 1.

This makes mages one of (if not the) only DPS caster in the game that is like this, whilst simultaneously making them the dps caster that is most destroyed by interrupts.

Not really true. Other casters are being more stripped down as well.

Your other DPS casters are Warlocks, Elemental, Shadow, and Balance. Warlocks already have a rigid theme in each spec and will have them solidified (no more Rain of Fire for Affliction AoE.) Elemental is losing a healing cooldown and already has a strict theme, as does Balance. Shadow is losing access to its support healing and Holy-ish cooldowns like Hymn of Hope.

The intent of the changes is to bring down overall CC but provide each spec its own distinct strengths. Frost will be good at slowing people still with Frost spells while Fire uses Fire skills (go figure) to disorient enemies and speed itself up, and Arcane can use time to speed itself up and slow enemies.

They're getting rid of a lot of the overlap, something they're doing to most every other class, and making each spec more self sufficient and distinctive.

[mrgreenthump]

Please do keep the posting on topic and leave the flaming and trolling out of this thread.

[Orinoco]

9 year mage here too; I absolutely love the changes. Each spec now has a distinct identity rather than dipping into different things here and there - I understand the OP's argument but I just don't agree. I much prefer the way things are heading than the way they were. Have you seen, for example, the wowhead alpha talent calculator? Check that out and just click on each of the different specs, you'll see that a number of mage talents change depending on the spec you pick. No other class, yet, has that much identity or variance depending on spec. It's all big changes but I really do believe it's all a step in the right direction.

[arcaneshot]

Mages have always had Cone of Cold, Arcane Explosion, Flamestrike, Blizzard, Fireblast, and Frost Nova even in Classic. Removing them from a Mage's arsenal is a huge detriment regardless of the specialization you choose to play as.

And out of Cone of Cold, Arcane Explosion, Flamestrike, and Blizzard, which of them did you actually use to AoE things?

[TheWorkingTitle]

And out of Cone of Cold, Arcane Explosion, Flamestrike, and Blizzard, which of them did you actually use to AoE things?

Literally all of them.

Cone of Cold for kiting various mobs, PvP targets, Challenge Mode Dungeons.

Arcane explosion for a finisher, getting Stealthed targets out of stealth, aoe'ing trash packs in raids, farming mobs out in the world.

Flamestrike was Fire's best AoE'er in Wrath and since then it's still very good at slowing multiple targets be it in PvP or Raids/Dungeons. Also a very decent stealth breaker with its ground aoe and short cast time.

Blizzard is incredible for getting stealthed targets out with only the global cooldown keeping it from being cast again. Also good in large BG battles as a deterrent, crowd slower, and for pulling multiple mobs away from nodes such as in AV.

Even in they aren't mandatory spells, they still have a niche and using a Mage to its fullest requires using everything at your disposal.

[Orinoco]

But I think the counter to that argument is that if we have a spell for every situation then where does creative play come into it? Where do original ideas on how to play come in? If we've got spells that cover almost all situations then everyone plays the same way, I think restricting the tools you have to hand greatly increases the creativity of the player. On top of that, what other classes have a spell for every occasion? None! So why should mages?

[TheWorkingTitle]

But I think the counter to that argument is that if we have a spell for every situation then where does creative play come into it? Where do original ideas on how to play come in? If we've got spells that cover almost all situations then everyone plays the same way, I think restricting the tools you have to hand greatly increases the creativity of the player. On top of that, what other classes have a spell for every occasion? None! So why should mages?

In the heat of a battle, it's highly unlikely that you can counter every single thing being done to you. I don't think your example in a vacuum really plays out well in practice. I do see what you're saying and to that I'd say that original ideas come from creative use within the confines of your arsenal. Limiting the choices doesn't create more options of what can be done at any given point/situation.

[Orinoco]

In the heat of a battle, it's highly unlikely that you can counter every single thing being done to you. I don't think your example in a vacuum really plays out well in practice. I do see what you're saying and to that I'd say that original ideas come from creative use within the confines of your arsenal. Limiting the choices doesn't create more options of what can be done at any given point/situation.

I was thinking about this and basically what we have here are the two ways it could play out - could be that less is more and we get new creative ways that the top pvp'ers use to play fire or arcane mage or you're right and we're stifled with bugger all options and are forced into frost for pvp again. Just wait and see I guess. You're certainly not wrong regarding solo'ing though, it's pretty much going to have to be frost with these changes but honestly I'm okay with that, most classes have a much preferred spec for leveling/solo'ing so it doesn't bother me, though I can see why it's going to annoy other people.

[Deleted]

I am mage veteran. And talking about dumbing down mage is stupid and you clearly didnt read rest of information about other classes. EVERY class lost bunch of CC spells. Everyone cried about CC in PvP whole MOP and when Blizzard start cutting them off you start cry again. WTF? We lost kite potencial in PvE? No we dont we have still lost of cc in our fire and arcane spec. And who cares about kiting in PvE in first place rofl? I never used it for anything. Challenge mod dungeons? If you used con of cold you have been doing it wrong. Spread spell into specialization is best way how to cut of many cc but keep spell in our spell book. We lost Blizzard in Fire? Gues what we have instant Flamestrike with same slow as blizzard. We lost cone of cold? We still have Dragons breath.

[Magemaer]

Yes, they ARE dumbing down the class.
But i must remind that many s***** mage players asked for it. In this very forum. And i warned everyone: don't ask for this, it'll make the class poorer.
There you go.

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Btw,

Challenge mod dungeons? If you used con of cold you have been doing it wrong

-Sinndor, 2014
This is the kind of mage player behind said changes. Sad, but true.

[Deleted]

Yes, they ARE dumbing down the class.
But i must remind that many s***** mage players asked for it. In this very forum. And i warned everyone: don't ask for this, it'll make the class poorer.
There you go.

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Btw,

-Sinndor, 2014
This is the kind of mage player behind said changes. Sad, but true.

So pls tell me how exactly it make class harder to play when you instead pressing 1 button you start pressing other?
Amounth of spells on your bars does not determinate difficulty of your class at all.
I am sorry but i seriously dont want anotehr MOP CC fest in PvP.

[Raqubor]

Mage tears, oh sweet-sweet rare mage tears, let me get a few vials. I'll be rich.

Infracted. - Shang

[NuLogic]

Before: Omg blizzard stop the cd stacking! One shot macros take no skill!

Omg blizzard there is too much cc! I can't even control my toon the majority of the fight!

After: Omg blizzard you're dumbing down the game!

[Magemaer]

So pls tell me how exactly it make class harder to play when you instead pressing 1 button you start pressing other?
Amounth of spells on your bars does not determinate difficulty of your class at all.
I am sorry but i seriously dont want anotehr MOP CC fest in PvP.

Neither do i. But really, do i need to explain how pressing more than 1 buttom makes a class harder? Don't you think it was easy enough spamming AB back in the days?
Here's how:

-Your aoe rotation consists of spamming one buttom. All you have to do is spam it. As soon as avalible it should be used. Spam, spam. Difficulty level: low.
-Now your aoe rotation consists of 2 buttoms. Now you have...a CHOICE. This means a player with better knowledge will be able to discern which is the best way to deal with the situation.
-Imagine 3,4 buttoms.
-Factor number of targets. Spells might move up or down in your priority according to number of targets.
-Factor distance. Against these mobs you can aoe on melee, against those you can't.
What are you getting? Choices. And what do they mean? They mean it's harder to play now, to make the best out of your class. It takes knowledge, awareness and quick decisions.
It's also physically harder. It's harder, physically, alternating between 3 buttoms than just pressing 1. Slightly, but harder.

How can't you figure that out?

And OP is right, kiting is one of our core mechanics. Mages can't heal easily, they kite and control. It has always been core to our class and doing a good kiting did take skill, and was fun. Why remove that?