Lets define "Fixing PVP" for Blizzard.

[Hand Banana]

Maybe there's the problem. Maybe I've outgrown WoW's pvp. I don't feel the intensity or exhiliration anymore. Maybe this is why it's boring to me now. Macros > true reflexes?

I am sad

[EDIT] Bonus points to you for the ATHF reference.

Ill always take bonus points :P

I think your problem with pvp now is you do random bgs (if I remember right you said you don't do rated). There is so much gear disparity and botting that random bgs are far from fun unless you go in with a group, but that often devolves into spawncamping them.

3v3 on the other hand is either intense as hell or boring as hell. Against burst cleaves or hunters you are on your toes because they can randomly 1 shot someone or cc chain someone forever and you and your team have to be on your game. On the other hand you play comps like LSD that drain your actual soul while you play them because they turtle till dampening or try to kill every ascendance then go back to turtling. Its still crazy because theres so much cleave damage all the time and you are trying your damnedest to line up kills, but alot of teams play so defensive these days it kills the fun.

[Deleted]

how to fix pvp:

stop the absurd stat inflation each time a new season begins, it's not fun when your gear suddenly becomes absolutely redundant, sure the new seasons' gear should be better but right now it's ridicilous how big the difference is, you are practially useless until you get a bunch of pieces of the new gear, gearing alts is a living nightmare

remove 90% of cc

remove 90% of instant casts

remove 90% of gap closing abilities

uniqueness is fun, homogenization for the sake of balance, which will never be achieved anyway, is not

remove dps cooldowns, burst is a joke

many interrupts are barely noticeable, despite being crucial abilities, why do we need addons to keep track of those abilities? we have to know if we succeeded in fake casting or not without addons

more meaningful pvp rewards: sure gladiator mounts are cool, but hardly anyone gets to have them, what about the majority of pvp players that get absolutely NO REWARD at all whenever a season ends ? why does blizzard design some of the most beautiful mounts in the game for only a handful of players?

[Celista]

I don't get why players shit on instant casts in regards to pvp, are we going to make melee abilities have a cast time too? I'd rather add more gap closers to melee to balance out caster vs melee gameplay rather than give everything a cast time.

[Usagi Senshi]

I don't get why players shit on instant casts in regards to pvp, are we going to make melee abilities have a cast time too? I'd rather add more gap closers to melee to balance out caster vs melee gameplay rather than give everything a cast time.

In any MMO I've played in the past and basically most fantasy tropes, casters stand and cast and melee have always been mobile damage dealers (ya know, since its easier running around and waving blades about in someone's face). Casters have had it waaaay too good the last couple of expansions and I'm glad they're being culled back some. Besides, when I go elemental on my shaman in PVP I'll still have four (Unleash, ES, FS, and 15s of casting while moving every 2-3 minutes) decent things I can use on the move and that's all any caster needs really while doing some kiting.

Hell, it could be worse, they could have went the Aion route and make all melee abilities 40 yard range chain attacks to combat casters.

[Hand Banana]

how to fix pvp:

stop the absurd stat inflation each time a new season begins, it's not fun when your gear suddenly becomes absolutely redundant, sure the new seasons' gear should be better but right now it's ridicilous how big the difference is, you are practially useless until you get a bunch of pieces of the new gear, gearing alts is a living nightmare

remove 90% of cc

remove 90% of instant casts

remove 90% of gap closing abilities

uniqueness is fun, homogenization for the sake of balance, which will never be achieved anyway, is not

remove dps cooldowns, burst is a joke

many interrupts are barely noticeable, despite being crucial abilities, why do we need addons to keep track of those abilities? we have to know if we succeeded in fake casting or not without addons

more meaningful pvp rewards: sure gladiator mounts are cool, but hardly anyone gets to have them, what about the majority of pvp players that get absolutely NO REWARD at all whenever a season ends ? why does blizzard design some of the most beautiful mounts in the game for only a handful of players?

So basically you want pvp to become pve where we just do our rotations till someone dies. I hate when people want all the dps cds and cc removed, the game would be so damn boring. The only thing wrong with the game right now is a few to many instant ccs (not just instant or just ccs, but things that are both, like howl of terror to spell lock blank to mortal coil), fears damage threshold too high, health pools are too small and healing is too high with how little mana is used. Double the health pools, cut % based heals in half so they stay the same (second wind might need a rework), increase mana cost of all heals by 50%. Therefore burst exists but you wont get 100-0 in a blanket cs anymore, you probably go from 100-50. Healers will have to work to keep people alive instead of just at everyone sitting at full all game then someone drops to execute range in 2 seconds, but they have to be efficient or they oom. Thats why I like what I am hearing from MoP, where people will sit under 100% health most of the time and healing won't be so absurd, but bust has to be scaled back or that doesn't work.

[Deleted]

I don't get why players shit on instant casts in regards to pvp, are we going to make melee abilities have a cast time too? I'd rather add more gap closers to melee to balance out caster vs melee gameplay rather than give everything a cast time.

Because melee must have something to compensate for not being ranged, you know? Would you rather give them double HP, more damage or just make casters cast again?

[Celista]

Because melee must have something to compensate for not being ranged, you know? Would you rather give them double HP, more damage or just make casters cast again?

Why not just give them movement speed bonuses/snare removals as I suggested?

[Deleted]

Why not just give them movement speed bonuses/snare removals as I suggested?

Because 100% of uptime (casters) would be still better than 90% of uptime (melee).

Gap closers would need to have no cost and no CD to make it work, but even then it wouldnt be 100% of uptime.

[Illana]

Because 100% of uptime (casters) would be still better than 90% of uptime (melee).

Gap closers would need to have no cost and no cd to make it work, but even then it wouldnt be the uptime of caster.

casters (bar hunters) dont have even close to 100% uptime.

[Deleted]

Healers will have to work to keep people alive instead of just at everyone sitting at full all game then someone drops to execute range in 2 seconds, but they have to be efficient or they oom.

I just read two things from your post:

"I AM DPS AND WANT TO PWN, BECAUSE OF THAT I WANT TO MAKE HEALERS GAME PLAY MISERABLE AND THEM RARE SO I CAN PWN MORE"
and
"I don't actually play any pvp as most of what I wrote is completely false and with pride gear people go down in a second without the healer being able to do anything and certainly not run around in full health."

[Flaks]

The problem isn't simply the addition of too many cc's or too many burst cds or too many defensives.

It's the new talent system.

It gives specs abilities that they never should have had. An arms warrior should never ever ever have gotten shockwave or stormbolt. A fire mage sure as fuck shouldn't have deep freeze. A bm hunter should never have gotten access to readiness (early MoP).

The new talent system alone is to blame for 99% of the issues of PvP in this expansion. Cataclysm was a billion times better PvP-wise comparatively and we all know how bad s11 was.

[Cirayne24]

The new talent system alone is to blame for 99% of the issues of PvP in this expansion. Cataclysm was a billion times better PvP-wise comparatively and we all know how bad s11 was.

It does make me wonder what the developers were thinking this expac with talents like Avatar/BM pre nerf.

[Gsara]

Completely separate them.

[Hand Banana]

I just read two things from your post:

"I AM DPS AND WANT TO PWN, BECAUSE OF THAT I WANT TO MAKE HEALERS GAME PLAY MISERABLE AND THEM RARE SO I CAN PWN MORE"
and
"I don't actually play any pvp as most of what I wrote is completely false and with pride gear people go down in a second without the healer being able to do anything and certainly not run around in full health."

In fact I play a healer nearly completely. My dps are pretty causal in arenas. My pally can 10%-100% anyone in 2 gcds with 1 of my 6 cds with no sweat. Then again I just played yesterday where my teams spriest died in a scatter shot, the trap (which I had planned to trinket) hadn't even landed yet and he died. He was around 70% when they started bursting. Or when I get deeped and pop my 40% DR cd and die 100-0 in the deep -> blank from a mage/ele. But then if I am not cc'd I can keep anyone alive through anything. The system now is fucking retarded, my healer is so overpowered that they either need to burst 100-0 in 3 seconds or need to chain cc me for 15+ seconds to kill something, or oom me which is why I hate LSD type turtle-> dampening type comps.

[DingDongKing]

The game is very bursty. Whether it's healing or DPS. It's retarded basically. It's a little less so in lowbies apart from the odd broken abilities.

[spinnaker]

That's a flawed design principle, it works in strategy and FPS games because success in those games is defined as the team (as a collective) winning. In a game where the most competitive PvP is 2 or 3 players fighting eachother, it makes the game more about countering the other team's compostion, not actual skill.

[Locruid]

Heres what I remember best about Blizz and PVP

Vanilla to BC - We are raising Health Pools and adding resilinece so people live longer and have more fun! 2-3 shotted
BC to WOTLK - We are drastically increasing resilience and health pools so people have more fun! 2-3 shotted
WOTLK TO Cata - We are drastically increasing resilience and health pools so people live longer and......do I need to say more?
Cats to Mop - We are drastically increasing....o screw it you know where it's going

WOD We are completely changing stats so people live longer and have more fun....HAHAHAHAHAHAH

[Deleted]

The problem isn't simply the addition of too many cc's or too many burst cds or too many defensives.

It's the new talent system.

It gives specs abilities that they never should have had. An arms warrior should never ever ever have gotten shockwave or stormbolt. A fire mage sure as fuck shouldn't have deep freeze. A bm hunter should never have gotten access to readiness (early MoP).

The new talent system alone is to blame for 99% of the issues of PvP in this expansion. Cataclysm was a billion times better PvP-wise comparatively and we all know how bad s11 was.

Same thing I said in the beta. Good to see I am not the only one seeing the issue.