Haste/Crit confusion as BM

[Amethon]

Hey, I'm not sure if this is normal but I thought I'd come here for some advice.

Basically, I've only just started raiding again and running heroics so my ilevel is only 563. I am playing BM mostly but switch to survival on some fights.

Now originally, I was reforging into crit > haste > mastery as I was switching between BM and Survival but I thought I'd run simcraft to see what it thinks my stat prio should be and it gave me haste > crit > mastery.

I then changed my orange gems and reforging around a bit to match what the first stat priority was and ran the sim again and my dps increased by ~100 (worth it) but as for my stats, it had changed to crit > mastery > haste. Now I'm pretty sure the latter isn't what I'm supposed to do but I just wanted to hear your thoughts

My armory link is http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...isper/Amethon/

Thanks

[Deleted]

Don't listen to SimCraft for stat priorities as BM, they fluctuate all over the place and don't make much sense. Reforge plots are better, but even those are not perfect.

Also, SimCraft can't actually model DPS increases of less than 300 (unless you do 25k-50k iterations in which case what are you doing?).

If the difference is under 1k, go with what you prefer.

Your gear's not even close to being fit for BM, though, just go SV till you get more Haste gear/a higher iLvl Assurance/TED would be nice too.

[Amethon]

I ran it at 50k iterations but yeah, the only thing I heard was 'at higher gear levels, go bm haste build' but I've never seen a specific level of gear. Shouldn't be too long before AoC drops and I still have a chance at TED this week. I personally manage higher dps as BM than survival at the minute on most of the bosses I've done on heroic so I'll stick as BM for now but I'll switch back to the crit > haste build

[Deleted]

As Azor said, you would probably do better staying SV full time for now. If you do want to play BM on some fights though such as protectors/Galakras would be the obvious two, then go crit>haste>mastery reforge as this is decent for BM but great for SV.

[Deleted]

I ran it at 50k iterations but yeah, the only thing I heard was 'at higher gear levels, go bm haste build' but I've never seen a specific level of gear. Shouldn't be too long before AoC drops and I still have a chance at TED this week. I personally manage higher dps as BM than survival at the minute on most of the bosses I've done on heroic so I'll stick as BM for now but I'll switch back to the crit > haste build

There is no specific "level" of gear, it's more about what pieces you have.

As it stands right now, you have fuck-all Mastery, a fair bit of haste and lots of Crit. Basically your gear is itemized to Survival.

Not surprising that BM does more damage for you, though, as most bosses favor it mechanic-wise, but if your gear is itemized in X direction, you generally don't wanna work against what the RNG Gods have bestowed upon you, and just wait till you get better pieces with going for a haste build.

If I were you atm, I'd go Crit >= Haste > Mastery, get TED + higher iLvl AoC and once you start racking in Mastery on your gear, go for proper Haste > Mastery > Crit.

[Amethon]

Brilliant! Thanks guys!

[Chippendale]

Your gear's not even close to being fit for BM, though, just go SV till you get more Haste gear/a higher iLvl Assurance/TED would be nice too.

What, then, are some guiding principles for knowing when your gear is better suited for Survival vs. BM? And even more specific, is there any way to tell if you "should" be doing Crit >= Haste BM instead of SV?

[Azortharion]

What, then, are some guiding principles for knowing when your gear is better suited for Survival vs. BM? And even more specific, is there any way to tell if you "should" be doing Crit >= Haste BM instead of SV?

When you can achieve 12k-ish haste with reforges/gems for haste etc, I'd say that's a good start.

You go Crit > Haste > Mast for BM only if you wanna sometimes be Survival. Crit > Haste is not better for BM at lower gear levels, or anything like that, it's just that at lower gear levels you'll prolly see better results as Survival on a lot of fights.

[Rugtoad]

When you can achieve 12k-ish haste with reforges/gems for haste etc, I'd say that's a good start.

You go Crit > Haste > Mast for BM only if you wanna sometimes be Survival. Crit > Haste is not better for BM at lower gear levels, or anything like that, it's just that at lower gear levels you'll prolly see better results as Survival on a lot of fights.

What about a case where you have the 12k or more haste, but you also have very little mastery on your gear?

[Kissthebaby]

What about a case where you have the 12k or more haste, but you also have very little mastery on your gear?

reforge your crit to mastery than, it is also ok to go a balanced stat build, wont be as good as full haste but sometimes you just dont have the gear to do it. Also do you mean 12k haste just from gear or is this after reforging, armory link would be nice.

[Rugtoad]

reforge your crit to mastery than, it is also ok to go a balanced stat build, wont be as good as full haste but sometimes you just dont have the gear to do it. Also do you mean 12k haste just from gear or is this after reforging, armory link would be nice.

12k(14.5k in my case) after reforging.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Chippen/simple
I didn't necessarily intend for this to turn into a gear audit, I was just trying to get guidelines posted for the community(and myself of course).

[Kissthebaby]

12k(14.5k in my case) after reforging.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Chippen/simple
I didn't necessarily intend for this to turn into a gear audit, I was just trying to get guidelines posted for the community(and myself of course).

seems fine to me what you are doing, just need some upgrades ofcourse, your off piece kinda sucks but you cant help it.

[Rugtoad]

seems fine to me what you are doing, just need some upgrades ofcourse, your off piece kinda sucks but you cant help it.

So high haste, it's okay to go Haste > Mastery > Crit even with low amounts of mastery? Just trying to establish the standards so that the question doesn't keep being asked. =)
(Thanks for humoring me all my questions btw)

[Kissthebaby]

So high haste, it's okay to go Haste > Mastery > Crit even with low amounts of mastery? Just trying to establish the standards so that the question doesn't keep being asked. =)
(Thanks for humoring all my questions btw)

yeah you are fine. you arent that behind in mastery it will come with better off pieces.

[Azortharion]

If you can achieve high haste (12k+ after gear optimizing for it), have normal AoC or better (preferably better) and 565+ iLvl, BM will be a DPS increase for you in most cases, regardless of your mastery/crit situation.

[Deleted]

Critical strike rating is nearly worthless as a BM hunter especially at OP's gear levels. You literally get all the crit you will ever need as a BM hunter from agility by itself. Mastery>haste>crit is probably your best choice as BM as the mastery provides a solid predictable damage output and haste intensifies the effect. By definition , crit will slightly intensify the effects from mastery but it's so rng based that it's hardly a reliable source of complete total damage output. Not to mention mastery is not only superior in single target but also aoe and cleaving which is the case in many fights this tier. With critical strike you'll notice alot of "gaps" in your over dps analysis evaluations which are no doubt caused by the insane amount of rng and overall unpredictability it plays on your over damage output.

[Azortharion]

Critical strike rating is nearly worthless as a BM hunter especially at OP's gear levels. You literally get all the crit you will ever need as a BM hunter from agility by itself. Mastery>haste>crit is probably your best choice as BM as the mastery provides a solid predictable damage output and haste intensifies the effect. By definition , crit will slightly intensify the effects from mastery but it's so rng based that it's hardly a reliable source of complete total damage output. Not to mention mastery is not only superior in single target but also aoe and cleaving which is the case in many fights this tier. With critical strike you'll notice alot of "gaps" in your over dps analysis evaluations which are no doubt caused by the insane amount of rng and overall unpredictability it plays on your over damage output.

OP, don't listen to this guy, he's been banned like a million times for trolling stable people by giving people asking for help misinformation.

[Kissthebaby]

Critical strike rating is nearly worthless as a BM hunter especially at OP's gear levels. You literally get all the crit you will ever need as a BM hunter from agility by itself. Mastery>haste>crit is probably your best choice as BM as the mastery provides a solid predictable damage output and haste intensifies the effect. By definition , crit will slightly intensify the effects from mastery but it's so rng based that it's hardly a reliable source of complete total damage output. Not to mention mastery is not only superior in single target but also aoe and cleaving which is the case in many fights this tier. With critical strike you'll notice alot of "gaps" in your over dps analysis evaluations which are no doubt caused by the insane amount of rng and overall unpredictability it plays on your over damage output.

Dont listen to this guy, he is a known troll.

[Deleted]

So quick to scream the word "troll" without providing any logical evidence to support your side of the argument (or even presenting a logical argument in the first place) kind of seems awfully familiar to the said term originally presented.

[eschatological]

I just want to know how much my LFR AoC is holding me back. Currently, I'm 574 equipped, with a HWF Haromm's (in BM), and an LFR AoC because fuck loot drops. And yes, before you ask, I run wing 1 of flex every week.

My sims seem to suggest, using a crit > haste > mastery reforge as I switch between both specs, my max sim would jump about 20k (from 377-397k) just from this one trinket. If I add a HWF weapon on top of that, I'd jump a total of 25k to 402k, in nowhere near BiS gear. And while that difference is less than 10%, there seems to be a mystical difference between DPS in the 370k range, and DPS in the 400k+ range.

This is, ofc, all without a HWF weapon, which both of our other hunters have, and who both at least have H-AoC. Sometimes I hate it when the person evaluating you isn't as analytical as you, and, in this case, is a tank who hasn't DPSed since Vanilla.

I hate that trinket. So much DPS just from that one upgrade.