Child Bride Kills Husband and his 3 buddies

[Bryntrollian]

Arranged marriages are legal and the norm in that society, the parents arranged for her to be married to that man. Are you seriously going to say that you are fine with her nearly killing 15 people simply because you don't agree with the countries politics ? Now she is going to be in a terrible prison somewhere for the rest of her life. The terrible thing about it all is that Nigerian prisons are horrible and she will probably have a higher chance of being raped by the prison guards than she would of ever being free again.

[Noomz]

The UN is composed of failable men and women just like you and me, I do not worship them and treat their words as gold simply because of the 'UN' logo. And apparently you don't value their definition of human rights either, seeing as you "belive that anyone out to harm or injure innocents like children, forfeit all rights", which is contrary to the UN doctrine in Article 3:

"Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person."

So a child rapist would be violating another members, "security of person", but you would violating the rapist's "right to life" by executing them. How do we solve that one? What if the rapist invoked his Article 14 rights of seeking asylum from persecution in another country? What does that do to the whole thing? The inconsistency conundrum of 'human rights'.

If you at any point in your life you took a toy away from your child, you violated their human rights (according to the UN), and thus (according to your definition) forfeited your own right to any future 'human rights'. See what a big mess this is when you get into it?

You really, really, really don't grasp any of this. I feel like I really can't get through to you and you just keep spouting this pseudo-intellectual ambiguity mumbojumbo.

And your last example is a perfect example of how you go out of your way to completely disregard common sense just to make an illogical point, as long as it goes against what I'm saying.
Breaking a law, that doesn't go against human rights, means you've broken a law. If that law is also supported by a human right, then you're truly buggered and yes, you are at the whim of the justice system.

I can't keep trying to use reason and logic on a person that I see has used neither to reach their conclussions. You will ofcourse call me things for saying that, but I don't want to keep bashing my face against this wall.

From what I've gathered, you support child rape and forced marriage. You blatantly disregard human rights and law. You think rape isn't worthy of the worst punishment.
I can only conclude that you are talking about an issue that you have absolutely no experience of or insight into. Again I state, I will not bother bashing my head against your wall of ignorance.

[darkwarrior42]

The UN is composed of failable men and women just like you and me, I do not worship them and treat their words as gold simply because of the 'UN' logo. And apparently you don't value their definition of human rights either, seeing as you "belive that anyone out to harm or injure innocents like children, forfeit all rights", which is contrary to the UN doctrine in Article 3:

"Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person."

So a child rapist would be violating another members, "security of person", but you would violating the rapist's "right to life" by executing them. How do we solve that one? What if the rapist invoked his Article 14 rights of seeking asylum from persecution in another country? What does that do to the whole thing? The inconsistency conundrum of 'human rights'.

If you at any point in your life you took a toy away from your child, you violated their human rights (according to the UN), and thus (according to your definition) forfeited your own right to any future 'human rights'. See what a big mess this is when you get into it?

No, not really... these kinds of situations are why courts exist, so that people can argue their cases.

problem is, the legal system in the country in question actively condones rape and deprivation of human rights, so the injured party does not have the option of a legal recourse. Such victims almost never have an opportunity to seek asylum, and their society prevents them from pursuing reasonable peaceful solutions.

If she chose to kill the rapist instead of running down to the police station, yeah, I might have a problem with that. When the police in question would hand-deliver her back into the arms of the rapist... that's a different story.

Beyond that, your absolute interpretation of the UN declaration would imply that the document prevents any kind of punishment or law enforcement from ever happening; after all, we imprison criminals, which deprives them of liberty, right? Clearly, that is not the intent of the document, and is contradicted by later articles which include stipulations regarding trial, arrest, and punishment... none of which would be necessary if such things were precluded by Article 3.

It's even less relevant when you take into account the following article:
"Article 16.

(1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State."

Which clearly, this situation violates, yet the country's legal system takes no issue with it. It's a simple matter to realize that the country, therefore, does not abide by the UN declaration.


She killed a man because she saw no other way out. I will commend her for that. Doing so does not mean I condone thoughtless murder, nor does it mean that I think the rule of law is irrelevant, nor does it mean that I think every rape victim should kill their rapist. It means that I recognize that there are extenuating circumstances which can dramatically change what options you have available, and that I'm going to judge her based on her situation, not on some arbitrary hypothetical situation with alternatives that she did not have.

[Ragnarohk]

What defines the gravity of a crime?

The suffering of the victim? Technically murder victims feel nothing.

Everything is relative. However murder is considered in most places as the "ultimate offense"
For example I would consider stealing all of a persons money (savings, etc) "worse" than rape, yet I would never condone a person that stole to death.

[Gungtah]

So should we make a spinoff thread called "is rape bad?" with a yes/no poll?

/wrists

Define rape. And then tell my girlfriend she's a rapist. I should murder her, then I can be a hero like this 14 year old girl.

[darkwarrior42]

Arranged marriages are legal and the norm in that society, the parents arranged for her to be married to that man. Are you seriously going to say that you are fine with her nearly killing 15 people simply because you don't agree with the countries politics ? Now she is going to be in a terrible prison somewhere for the rest of her life. The terrible thing about it all is that Nigerian prisons are horrible and she will probably have a higher chance of being raped by the prison guards than she would of ever being free again.

When every single person there was there for the sole and explicit purpose of celebrating the husband's new ability to brutalize and use a 14-year old girl however he wanted to.... no, I'm not going to feel bad for them.

[TirielWoW]

I had sex with a kid once.

I was a kid too, but apparently "children fucking" is just bad regardless. You do know Queen Victoria is dead and doesn't care if you're naughty, right?

I'm pretty sure that a 35 year old man fucking a 14 year old is wrong no matter how you try to pander it off as "okay."

Well according to the "Human Rights" model that noomz believes in, we should.

I think we didn't read the same thing.

[Noomz]

Arranged marriages are legal and the norm in that society, the parents arranged for her to be married to that man. Are you seriously going to say that you are fine with her nearly killing 15 people simply because you don't agree with the countries politics ? Now she is going to be in a terrible prison somewhere for the rest of her life. The terrible thing about it all is that Nigerian prisons are horrible and she will probably have a higher chance of being raped by the prison guards than she would of ever being free again.

So if slavery and rape is a norm and legal in a country, we should accept it and not question it? My mind is blown every time someone spouts that out. It sickens me to the core. You are willing to accept anything with the reason "it's their way". Mindsets like yours are what keep us from developing as a species.

[darkwarrior42]

Define rape. And then tell my girlfriend she's a rapist. I should murder her, then I can be a hero like this 14 year old girl.

If your girlfriend is raping you, you can go to shelters to escape her. You can have her arrested and prosecuted. You can have restraining orders filed against her. You can move. You can leave the country. You have numerous options available to you, none of which were available to her.

[TirielWoW]

Wait are we talking about rape or sexually active children. The person I was talking to was demonizing sexually active children, not sure where "manipulation" comes into that.

Seriously? The hell is wrong with you?

[Sole-Warrior]

I generally don't have much sympathy for murderers and consider them deserving of prison sentence + rehab, but in this case, hearts out to her. Being forced to marry some pedo is a scary thing.

[Noomz]

No, not really... these kinds of situations are why courts exist, so that people can argue their cases.

problem is, the legal system in the country in question actively condones rape and deprivation of human rights, so the injured party does not have the option of a legal recourse. Such victims almost never have an opportunity to seek asylum, and their society prevents them from pursuing reasonable peaceful solutions.

If she chose to kill the rapist instead of running down to the police station, yeah, I might have a problem with that. When the police in question would hand-deliver her back into the arms of the rapist... that's a different story.

Beyond that, your absolute interpretation of the UN declaration would imply that the document prevents any kind of punishment or law enforcement from ever happening; after all, we imprison criminals, which deprives them of liberty, right? Clearly, that is not the intent of the document, and is contradicted by later articles which include stipulations regarding trial, arrest, and punishment... none of which would be necessary if such things were precluded by Article 3.

It's even less relevant when you take into account the following article:
"Article 16.

(1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State."

Which clearly, this situation violates, yet the country's legal system takes no issue with it. It's a simple matter to realize that the country, therefore, does not abide by the UN declaration.


She killed a man because she saw no other way out. I will commend her for that. Doing so does not mean I condone thoughtless murder, nor does it mean that I think the rule of law is irrelevant, nor does it mean that I think every rape victim should kill their rapist. It means that I recognize that there are extenuating circumstances which can dramatically change what options you have available, and that I'm going to judge her based on her situation, not on some arbitrary hypothetical situation with alternatives that she did not have.

Thank you! A thousand times thank you! A voice of reason and logic in a sea of madness!

[Ragnarohk]

When every single person there was that for the sole and explicit purpose of celebrating the husband's new ability to brutalize and use a 14-year old girl however he wanted to.... no, I'm not going to feel bad for them.

It's not about feeling good/bad, it's about allowing the murder to happen and/or not taking action after it happened against the person who committed it.
Although I don't feel bad for the man, the girl should still be charged with the murder of such people and suffer the consequence.
Crime does not justify crime

[SageKalzi]

So, once again we suddenly care about what people do in Africa because yet another bad thing happens? Just so you all know, the "young kid gets married to much older guy" thing happens constantly there, be appalled in person and do something about it or keep complaining on the internet, I'm sure the second one will get you somewhere.

[ShimmerSwirl]

You really, really, really don't grasp any of this. I feel like I really can't get through to you and you just keep spouting this pseudo-intellectual ambiguity mumbojumbo.

And your last example is a perfect example of how you go out of your way to completely disregard common sense just to make an illogical point, as long as it goes against what I'm saying.
Breaking a law, that doesn't go against human rights, means you've broken a law. If that law is also supported by a human right, then you're truly buggered and yes, you are at the whim of the justice system.

I can't keep trying to use reason and logic on a person that I see has used neither to reach their conclussions. You will ofcourse call me things for saying that, but I don't want to keep bashing my face against this wall.

From what I've gathered, you support child rape and forced marriage. You blatantly disregard human rights and law. You think rape isn't worthy of the worst punishment.
I can only conclude that you are talking about an issue that you have absolutely no experience of or insight into. Again I state, I will not bother bashing my head against your wall of ignorance.

The problem is you do not use reason or logic, quite the opposite actually. You take snippets from the UN doctrine you claim to believe in, parts from your emotionally charged view on rapist that contradict the UN doctrine, parts from another vaguely defined term 'common sense', and mash it all together to make an ever changing viewpoint. And this is a perfect nutshell of why 'human rights' is not a universal definition, although at this point I don't expect you to understand that.

I don't support anything evil. I believe criminals should be punished in order to keep society safe. I do not believe in executions. I believe in mercy.

[darkwarrior42]

It's not about feeling good/bad, it's about allowing the murder to happen and/or not taking action after it happened against the person who committed it.
Although I don't feel bad for the man, the girl should still be charged with the murder of such people and suffer the consequence.
Crime does not justify crime

She is going to be tried, and because that country takes no issue with legalized rape, she will likely be killed or tortured for the rest of her life because she had the audacity not to submit herself to the whims of a man who didn't care at all about her.

At what point would it have been acceptable for her to defend herself? Should she have waited until he was in the bedroom with her? Actually in the bed? At what point would it be acceptable for her to defend herself?

[Goondicker]

Can't say I would have done any differently when put into her situation.

I think something that a lot of you are missing here is that she was 14. Sure, maybe murdering a dozen people wasn't the right choice, but do you expect her to have the maturity to not do something so drastic when put in this situation? And we're all in positions where if this happened to us, there might be someone to help, so it's really hard for (most of) us to imagine. She probably felt like this was her only solution.

Kudos to her.

[hulkgor]

I feel for her, and the whole situation, but killing a bunch of people, most with nothing to do with the situation, is absolutely wrong. The fact that some people here are cheering her on, having killed her forced husband, and THREE others, is sickening.

It's hard to change mentalities on some areas of the world, but 4 people dying over it is wrong.

[Deleted]

She killed a man because she saw no other way out. I will commend her for that. Doing so does not mean I condone thoughtless murder, nor does it mean that I think the rule of law is irrelevant, nor does it mean that I think every rape victim should kill their rapist. It means that I recognize that there are extenuating circumstances which can dramatically change what options you have available, and that I'm going to judge her based on her situation, not on some arbitrary hypothetical situation with alternatives that she did not have.

Why are you lieing? She didn't poison "a man", she poisoned a party of random people.

[TirielWoW]

It's not about feeling good/bad, it's about allowing the murder to happen and/or not taking action after it happened against the person who committed it.
Although I don't feel bad for the man, the girl should still be charged with the murder of such people and suffer the consequence.
Crime does not justify crime

I don't disagree, I just feel like she didn't have a lot of options. I mean, other than killing herself - which some child brides have actually done.