Child Bride Kills Husband and his 3 buddies

[prwraith]

Make it more obvious that you're a pedophilia apologist.

I think the amount of men who are attracted to that age group but overcome it through willpower would surprise you.

Which is why it hardly surprises me at all that these acts are tolerated in less developed countries.

[Hooked]

So she was able to go to the market and buy rat poison without anyone noticing, but couldn't just run away?. I think she wanted to make them all pay.

[Pengalor]

Hmmm... so your argument is about numbers. It's better for her to kill herself than 14 others, if those are the only ways she has of escaping captivity.

I do not equate legality with morality in any society... and that you equate the two makes it more difficult to take any ethical argument you might make seriously. You are implying that literally anything would be acceptable so long as it's legal in the society that does it. If that is not your intent, then it being legal in their society means nothing, and there would have been no reason for you to bring it up in the first place.

In the case of the bank robber, it is most likely that those who failed to intervene were scared to do so. They are not complicit, they are intimidated into inaction... though even then, it would depend on the exact circumstances, regarding how I feel about them. I will grant that it is possible this is the case for many people living there, but I find it unlikely that any of the people who were there to celebrate her impending rape were also intimidated into inaction by fear of reprisal.

I believe that people have the right to defend themselves, so long as there is clear and present danger. I do not use the word "immediate" myself, because I think it's stupid to wait for your opponent to be ready to strike you down, if there is zero chance that the course of action will change before then (and if her husband didn't intend to rape her, there is virtually no chance he would have married her, and no chance that she would have struck first).

Nothing to do with numbers, all to do with suicide being an action against only herself while the poisoning could have killed up to 14 people, none of whom were her. If she wants to take actions against herself then fine, if she wants to punish potentially innocent people then that's unacceptable.

I didn't equate legality to morality either. Their laws are based on their cultural values and morality. In the eyes of their law and their culture the marriage was not wrong. That's all they know. I'd be willing to bet education is not exactly of prime importance there, they aren't exactly trained in critical thought. They follow tradition, they don't know any better. Therefore, they can't really be considered guilty unless you can only look from your point of view as an outside observer with vastly different values. And you can come up with whatever definition of self-defense you want, I'm using the definition of the law.

[darkwarrior42]

I will happily say that I am one. In theory there is nothing wrong with pedophilia as long as it's never acted upon. At worst it would just cause misery for the pedophile because they would have no love life to speak of. I'm against child molesters but that's a different thing. In fact, I'm willing to say that I feel for pedophiles who don't act on their affliction because it's nearly impossible for them to be honest about it and receive help if they want it (mostly because of the social stigma and the rebranding of the word to mean 'vaguely being attracted to anyone under 18').

In this case, I think it's less a rebranding of the word to mean "vaguely being attracted to anyone under 18" and more that it's been used as a synonym for "child molester/rapist".

The other half is that it's very difficult to talk about treatment for this sort of thing, because there is a large wave of effort to support the idea that you don't choose to be gay, you either are or you aren't. The two don't have anything to do with each other, of course, but as soon as you start a mainstream discussion about treating pedophilia, I'm sure you'd also see people going "well if we can change the sexual desires of someone who is attracted to children, why not change the sexual desires of people who are attracted to their own gender as well?"

Between the social stigma you mentioned and the other issues it naturally leads to, it's not exactly a topic that most are going to debate... which yes, means that people who feel that attraction but have the self control not to act on it are in a rather unfortunate position

[Zantos]

It also doesn't say he didn't have sexual relations, and the statements were related by a police spokesman.... a spokesman for the organization responsible for enforcing the law in that country which, if you'll recall, is the same law that permitted her to be forced against her will, and would have obligated her to have sex with her new husband.

People that want her punished for what she did have little cause to worry; she will be killed, and you can all celebrate her death instead of the death of her husband >.>

The death of a husband who broke no laws in his country, but broke the laws of other countries. Look, different cultures had different ideals and laws and rules. What is acceptable to one is not to others. I will not celebrate any of their deaths, however, what she did was wrong. If she wanted to really kill him and only him, she would have had many many opportunities. There was no reason to go a poison 14 people and hope that she managed to kill the guy she was forced to marry.

So answer me this, would your views about her change had she done just that, managed to kill 4 random people while the husband remained alive? Would you still think she did something good then had she killed so many and managed to miss her one target? The one target mind you, that she was being forced to live with.

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So she was able to go to the market and buy rat poison without anyone noticing, but couldn't just run away?. I think she wanted to make them all pay.

Exactly. She had every bit of freedom she needed to get away at any time. She had just as much time to kill him by himself then to try and take out as many others as she could with him.

[Deleted]

I never said rape was not evil, that debate was about forced marriage.

I have never promoted rape nor would I ever. I think forced marriage is less than ideal and there is a good chance such arrangements will not end well, but it is not an inherently evil institution. I do not believe either one of those acts justifies murder, that is all.

Forced marriage might be worse, as in many cases it's extended rape. Rape and forced marriage are not separate issues, as they typically go hand in hand.

Read below and be enlightened about forced marriage, especially the part that says "Non-consensual sexual intercourse occurring within a forced marriage is rape, and a victim of forced marriage may be raped repeatedly." Continuous rape occurs in a forced marriage. If you proceed to argue that intercourse might be consensual in a forced marriage, I can't help you there.


How can a marriage be forced?
It is an infringement upon your human rights to be forced to marry, though it is not a crime in itself. However, many crimes are committed in the course of forcing a marriage to take place. This often includes threatening behaviour, assault, kidnap, abduction (often overseas), imprisonment and, in the worst cases, murder. It is usually parents or other family members that are the perpetrators and they can be prosecuted for these offences. Non-consensual sexual intercourse occurring within a forced marriage is rape, and a victim of forced marriage may be raped repeatedly and become involuntarily pregnant. Victims may also endure other mental and physical abuses at the hands of their spouse and other relatives. This can induce anxiety, depression and low self-esteem. This can also lead to the onset of other mental health disorders such as eating disorders, self-harm and drug-use.

What about arranged marriage?
An arranged marriage is NOT a forced marriage because it is consensual. Arranged marriage is a traditional custom whereby the parents of prospective suitors introduce and match-make the couple. It remains the decision of the couple whether they wish to marry and many potential matches may be rejected before finding the right one. Arranged marriage is a practical solution to the problem of dating in many cultures and this can be the basis of a happy and fulfilling matrimony for the couple and their extended families.

Source: https://www.demontfortstudents.com/s...orcedmarriage/

[zhero]

Make it more obvious that you're a pedophilia apologist.

it isn't pedophilia, look up the definition and start using the word correctly. It is a cultural thing and calling them evil because of it is bigoted. The only thing wrong with the situation was that she was forced into marriage.

[Saradain]

Righteous act, I indeed also hope the poisoned guys died a horrible death. Like people here said...Life is hard, sucks to be a man in that situation indeed

My "sociopathic" opinions are my view of justice - and to me, your pro-forced marriage opinion is "sociopathic". Look at that, it works both ways!

[darkwarrior42]

I didn't equate legality to morality either. Their laws are based on their cultural values and morality. In the eyes of their law and their culture the marriage was not wrong. That's all they know. I'd be willing to bet education is not exactly of prime importance there, they aren't exactly trained in critical thought. They follow tradition, they don't know any better. Therefore, they can't really be considered guilty unless you can only look from your point of view as an outside observer with vastly different values. And you can come up with whatever definition of self-defense you want, I'm using the definition of the law.

Which law? :-P

*shrug* You are right in saying that education is not of particularly high importance over there... but it doesn't take any real education to see when you are hurting someone, and they're not exactly primitive fools either.

That said, Hooked raises a point I had failed to consider; namely, that she was able to go out on her own and acquire the rat poison. That implies a level of autonomy that should have afforded her more opportunities to limit her targeting to only her husband. While I stand by my statement that I wouldn't hesitate to go through the confederates of my kidnapper for being complicit in the act, that doesn't mean I'm going to detour during an escape attempt to set fire to their houses because I'm pissed at them. The fact that she had that level of autonomy means that she probably could have found a more controlled method of protecting herself.

I still don't have an issue with her going after her husband, but I will retract my earlier position on the grounds that it seems likely that she didn't have to target the others; going after them for the sake of vengeance is not justifiable.

[PuppetShowJustice]

While she was in a shit situation, killing is not the answer here.

What was the answer here, then? Just resigning herself to her fate?

I don't condone murder but she was basically screwed.

[Pengalor]

In this case, I think it's less a rebranding of the word to mean "vaguely being attracted to anyone under 18" and more that it's been used as a synonym for "child molester/rapist".

The other half is that it's very difficult to talk about treatment for this sort of thing, because there is a large wave of effort to support the idea that you don't choose to be gay, you either are or you aren't. The two don't have anything to do with each other, of course, but as soon as you start a mainstream discussion about treating pedophilia, I'm sure you'd also see people going "well if we can change the sexual desires of someone who is attracted to children, why not change the sexual desires of people who are attracted to their own gender as well?"

Between the social stigma you mentioned and the other issues it naturally leads to, it's not exactly a topic that most are going to debate... which yes, means that people who feel that attraction but have the self control not to act on it are in a rather unfortunate position

It's a bit of both on the rebranding and it's a shame, it's amazing how many people have never bothered to look up what pedophilia is, they just immediately react in disgust.

As for treatment, they just need to make it clear that it's not something that can be cured. Treatment for pedophilia revolves around therapy, getting out the emotions and desires you have and learning how to control them so you don't act. I certainly don't envy them.

[Zantos]

Righteous act, I indeed also hope the poisoned guys died a horrible death. Like people here said...Life is hard, sucks to be a man in that situation indeed

My "sociopathic" opinions are my view of justice - and to me, your pro-forced marriage opinion is "sociopathic". Look at that, it works both ways!

There is nothing righteous about murdering 4 people and hoping one is the correct target. Even more so when the others had no part, no say, literally nothing to do with the actions of the husband in question. Forced marriage is wrong, but what you think is justifiable is so much more wrong.

[darkwarrior42]

The death of a husband who broke no laws in his country, but broke the laws of other countries. Look, different cultures had different ideals and laws and rules. What is acceptable to one is not to others. I will not celebrate any of their deaths, however, what she did was wrong. If she wanted to really kill him and only him, she would have had many many opportunities. There was no reason to go a poison 14 people and hope that she managed to kill the guy she was forced to marry.

So answer me this, would your views about her change had she done just that, managed to kill 4 random people while the husband remained alive? Would you still think she did something good then had she killed so many and managed to miss her one target? The one target mind you, that she was being forced to live with.

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Exactly. She had every bit of freedom she needed to get away at any time. She had just as much time to kill him by himself then to try and take out as many others as she could with him.

Based on the apparent autonomy, yes, my opinion changes.

If that weren't a factor, and it were simply a question of "she tried to kill her husband and failed but got others in the process", my opinion of her actions wouldn't change. Success and failure isn't, for me, a determining factor in the morality of the action.

And I don't particularly care what the laws of his country are; legality does not equate to morality, here or over there. Different cultures have different rules and values, but that doesn't mean I have to look at a culture that legalizes rape and say that it's ok because they're different.

[Zantos]

What was the answer here, then? Just resigning herself to her fate?

I don't condone murder but she was basically screwed.

Running away while she was left unattended in town by herself?

[kanegasi]

Shame that she'll suffer for it, but I admire the shit out of her. I hope the pedo-rapist died very painfully.

I assume you're American, or at least brought up in some first world bubble somewhere. There are many cultures where forced marriage is an accepted norm, as well as "legal age" quite lower than the 16-18 of most developed countries.

Secondly, having relations with a 14 year old is not "pedo", regardless of legality. Pedophilia implies that the "victim", which there was none in this case, has not yet gone through puberty, with the average legal definition around 12.

If this story involved a single-digit age, then it would have another layer of bad, but as it is, only the rat poison is the bad part. Yes, the majority of the world looks down upon forced marriage, but it wasn't bad in this case.

A lot of people look down on lower ages being legal as well, but just because it's legal in one area and illegal in another doesn't make the legal area immoral. There are no immoral age lines, only sexual immaturity in a physical sense, and to a lesser somewhat provable mental sense.

[TirielWoW]

Running away while she was left unattended in town by herself?

Where should she go?

[Bryntrollian]

The death of a husband who broke no laws in his country, but broke the laws of other countries. Look, different cultures had different ideals and laws and rules. What is acceptable to one is not to others. I will not celebrate any of their deaths, however, what she did was wrong. If she wanted to really kill him and only him, she would have had many many opportunities. There was no reason to go a poison 14 people and hope that she managed to kill the guy she was forced to marry.

So answer me this, would your views about her change had she done just that, managed to kill 4 random people while the husband remained alive? Would you still think she did something good then had she killed so many and managed to miss her one target? The one target mind you, that she was being forced to live with.

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Exactly. She had every bit of freedom she needed to get away at any time. She had just as much time to kill him by himself then to try and take out as many others as she could with him.

Maybe she didn't want to get away, maybe she actually wanted to kill all of them but failed to do so?

[Zantos]

Based on the apparent autonomy, yes, my opinion changes.

If that weren't a factor, and it were simply a question of "she tried to kill her husband and failed but got others in the process", my opinion of her actions wouldn't change. Success and failure isn't, for me, a determining factor in the morality of the action.

And I don't particularly care what the laws of his country are; legality does not equate to morality, here or over there. Different cultures have different rules and values, but that doesn't mean I have to look at a culture that legalizes rape and say that it's ok because they're different.

No you don't, but murder was not correct. She could have run away. She was let to go shopping alone. She could have killed simply only him. There was no reason at any time that she had to kill others in the process.

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Maybe she didn't want to get away, maybe she actually wanted to kill all of them but failed to do so?

She obviously did. That's the only reason she stuck around instead of just leaving when she had the chance.

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Where should she go?

No clue. But she wouldn't have been a murder and wouldn't have been thrown in jail about to probably be killed.

[Vokal]

While I don't agree with forced marriage, killing is killing. She could have just ran away instead of poisoning a dozen or so people.

Don't care if she's 14.

Hope she fries, or hangs. However they do it.

Just like any and every killer should.

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Where should she go?

I don't know. Not to prison I am guessing.

[Daws]

Forced marriages are an abomination and honestly I don't have any sympathy for the people poisoned. Lets face it they where going to a party to celebrate a woman being forcibly married to a man who was very likely going to rape her as soon as they all left the party, had there been a decent bone amongst them they would have either refused the invite or tried to help the girl escape.