Child Bride Kills Husband and his 3 buddies

[zephid]

Then the pain you are subjected to is the worst part of it. When you are not killed, you either receive help and you are freed from being tortured, or you are helpless and can't escape it. In the latter case, I'd rather die in pain than endure more of it. Like I said.. it can break someone's will to live.

The difference is that you can survive torture.

It all comes down to on the duration of the torture.

Would you rather die than be tortured for a day? a week? a month? etc.

[Fexus]

There are a lot of "good" bits and there are "bad" bits, same with Christianity.

It's basically just a bunch of bad bits sprinkled with good bits that are obvious to anyone capable of even the most basic ethical thinking, same with Christianity.

[poser765]

It's basically just a bunch of bad bits sprinkled with good bits that are obvious to anyone capable of even the most basic ethical thinking, same with Christianity.

No, that's not really true at all. i think the problem is when most people here about Islam it's on the news...right after something extraordinary has been done. That kind skews peoples perceptions a bit.

[Puupi]

A child not wearing a helmet is at risk of being harmed also children usually can and do understand that if they don't wear a helmet they can be hurt. Thus the two do not match.

A child in muslim culture might also understand that getting married is a good thing. Because that's what it generally is in their society. It's the key to a better, or even an actual, life.

She killed the people after she was married after the fact to get out of it. Killing her parents after the marriage would not have had that effect and killing them pre-marriage would have been pointless.

Why killing them before the marriage would have been pointless? No marriage would have happened.

So please do think things through before you call me stupid. It doesn't reflect well on you.

Did I call you stupid?

[Bullderp]

However they are just as bad as the husband for joining and condoling such behaviour. Remember the whole about bulling? Well it's the same in this scenario, letting someone harass other's your effectively taking the bully's side.

This is where I'm hesitant to agree with you. I'm a moral absolutist, but I have to take into account the level of ignorance on the part of the individuals who weren't directly involved with this marriage. Who all attended? I would assume family; parents, siblings, aunts and uncles, possibly grandparents, etc. I can't verify that, but it would make most sense. That said, assuming it were true, how would her siblings be accomplices if they were forced to attend out of tradition/obligation/because-i'm-your-parent-and-i-said-so? Because they sat their in their cultural ignorance of the wrongdoing going on about them, they deserve to "suffer but not die"? Or the wives/aunts/etc who are forced to attend because of their societal position which is equivalent to an object rather than a person? They most likely didn't have a choice to be there.

I'm honestly having a hard time justifying their suffering on her behalf, when, in all likelihood, they've suffered under the same cultural norms that she's being subjected to.

[Deleted]

No, that's not really true at all. i think the problem is when most people here about Islam it's on the news...right after something extraordinary has been done. That kind skews peoples perceptions a bit.

Not at all. Christianity is just as bad and currently christianity pose a more realistic threat to attacks on women's rights(this being my main concern), among other things, in the western societies.

[Shinra1]

It's not just the age thing, in fact it's not even mainly the age thing in this case. It's the fact that she was forced to marry and live with this man when she did not want to.

Also people are understanding why she did this (rather than saying it was a good thing) because she was basically abducted by this man and expected to be his wife.

By supporting her action you're consequentially telling me that mass murder is okay if you have been wronged by a single person. Which is inherently not only abhorrent but logically speaking doesn't make much sense to me. 1 life is more important than a potential 14 lives? That's what it boils down to the numbers, what's more is that she didn't have to kill them. She could've killed herself. I'm not saying she should've committed suicide but if things were as bad as she alleges she could've ended right then and there. But no, her actions were laced with revenge and possibly psychopathic tendencies.

[Deleted]

By supporting her action you're consequentially telling me that mass murder is okay if you have been wronged by a single person.

I don't see how. Slippery slope much?

[AndaliteBandit]

If you looked at fMRI scans of a rapist who abducts teenage girls and tortures, and a man who is "given" a teenage wife in an arranged marriage, you would get some very different readings. While both practices are despicable, I don't believe they are at the same level. I believe calling the second situation rape is somewhat disingenuous.

I think you're looking at it from the wrong angle. While the man might indeed not feel as if he is a rapist, what about the child bride? How does she feel about not having the power to refuse sexual intercourse, and does she feel like the abducted girls in the first situation?

[Violent]

If you don't like arranged marriages, stop them all. Write to your leaders to go over and put an end & nullify all arranged marriages.

No? But you want to spew on about "freedom of choice".. Yet you don't seem to realize, this isn't the act of 1 crazy man and a bunch of his friends out on the town looking for some 14 yearold girl to rape.
This is a CULTURE who has been practicing arranged marriages, longer than the USA has been a country.

Who are ANY of you to say that it isn't "the right way" to do things? Let me guess, because you believe you're doing it the "right way"? Guess what! People from that culture don't believe YOU are doing it right.. What now?

I bet you think we should just leave people alone now, huh? Yeah.. me too.

[Deleted]

just stopped read on "Nigeria"

rest was obvious

[Shinra1]

I don't see how. Slippery slope much?

I just love when people throw about terms like slippery slope and appealing to tradition and fallacy this and fallacy that. It's a small wonder you choose to hide behind such terms when your views are laid out in front of you.

I'm talking to you as I would address you in person, in real life. If you want to talk on that level I welcome you however this petty arguing is not doing me and more specifically you any justice, dear.

[AndaliteBandit]

By supporting her action you're consequentially telling me that mass murder is okay if you have been wronged by a single person. Which is inherently not only abhorrent but logically speaking doesn't make much sense to me.

So you do not believe a man or woman has the right to defend themselves from rape or even death. Because they could always just kill themselves instead.

[Deleted]

I just love when people throw about terms like slippery slope and appealing to tradition and fallacy this and fallacy that. It's a small wonder you choose to hide behind such terms when your views are laid out in front of you.

I'm talking to you as I would address you in person, in real life. If you want to talk on that level I welcome you however this petty arguing is not doing me and more specifically you any justice, dear.

I wouldn't even talk to you irl with your views.

[poser765]

Not at all. Christianity is just as bad and currently christianity pose a more realistic threat to attacks on women's rights(this being my main concern), among other things, in the western societies.

Now is it really "religion" that is attacking women's right or is it inherently sexist pigs who are trying to justify their actions with religion?

[Shinra1]

So you do not believe a man or woman has the right to defend themselves from rape or even death. Because they could always just kill themselves instead.

Defending yourself is one thing however pre-meditating mass murder under the guise of a party is not only despicable but actually offends sacred hospitium.

Also calling her husband a rapist and a pedophile is flagrantly ignorant.

[Bullderp]

Who are ANY of you to say that it isn't "the right way" to do things? Let me guess, because you believe you're doing it the "right way"? Guess what! People from that culture don't believe YOU are doing it right.. What now?

I mentioned earlier that I am a moral absolutist. Means that I think there is a definitive right and definitive wrong. However, I also have the common sense (decency?) to take into account the level of ignorance we humans typically have about that moral compass, especially given other societal and cultural norms. If one society says it's okay to behead someone because they read a different religious book than what the government allows, I'd think there's some moral high ground we can take to call shenanigans on that practice. I also think that the first response we should have as outsiders with a superior ethic isn't to run in with guns blazin'; instead call them out on it. Make them aware that what they're doing is wrong. Make them understand why it is wrong. Because odds are they don't know and think everything is honkey dorey. Use the UN, use NATO, whatever; as long as we're attempting to educate them on their unethical practices.

[Velaniz]

Yes. Deadly serious. Misogyny is a thing because women are oppressed in a society that favours men. Misandry isn't a thing because society doesn't favour women. Certain aspects of society may favour women, but those are almost universally as a result of the patriarchy, which exists because men are not oppressed and women are.

In what way are women oppressed? Systemic gender inequality, for the most part, doesn't exist. The only instances of gender inequality today are a result of holdovers of our archaic mindsets from when those systemic gender inequalities did exist. They disfavor both men and women in a plethora of instances.

Most reasonable definitions of misandry have it defined independently on its source. Even if it's perpetuated by the patriarchy, it still is misandry.

Sexual harrassment, unequal pay, sexual double standards, representation in the media, social expectations (with regards to things like unpaid labour at home), access to reproductive health,

None of those are oppression by any standards that aren't trivial. You're also over-playing the truth of most of those, other than the first and last.

[AndaliteBandit]

Defending yourself is one thing however pre-meditating mass murder under the guise of a party is not only despicable but actually offends sacred hospitium.

How else do you suggest she defend herself?

Also calling her husband a rapist and a pedophile is flagrantly ignorant.

I did not call him a pedophile, and while he might not have felt like a rapist because of the culture he was raised in, the fact is that the girl was his sex slave. She did not consent to the marriage, therefore she did not consent to consummate the marriage. She was facing a lifetime of rape, and possibly death, because a child bearing a child is potentially deadly, especially in those parts of the world.

"Early and forced marriage is classified as modern-day slavery by the U.N. labor organization."

How is Shinra1 more qualified to speak on what constitutes slavery?

[Deleted]

Who are ANY of you to say that it isn't "the right way" to do things? Let me guess, because you believe you're doing it the "right way"? Guess what! People from that culture don't believe YOU are doing it right.. What now?

There's a difference between forcing people to do something and giving them a choice.

By supporting her action you're consequentially telling me that mass murder is okay if you have been wronged by a single person.

I do not support her, I understand why she did this. I've said that I neither condone or condemn what she did. She could have done it better but being a young person in such a situation I do not expect her to be entirely logical when planning her way out of it. I'm never going to condemn her for doing what she felt she needed to do in order to get out of that situation.

A child in muslim culture might also understand that getting married is a good thing. Because that's what it generally is in their society. It's the key to a better, or even an actual, life.

You have evidence of this I hope. Because I have no evidence proving it to be objectively so.

Why killing them before the marriage would have been pointless? No marriage would have happened.

It could very well still have and she may have actually had faith in her parents.

Did I call you stupid?

You said my "logic is stupid" which by extension implies the same of me.