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  1. #881
    Blademaster Bullderp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violent View Post
    Who are ANY of you to say that it isn't "the right way" to do things? Let me guess, because you believe you're doing it the "right way"? Guess what! People from that culture don't believe YOU are doing it right.. What now?
    I mentioned earlier that I am a moral absolutist. Means that I think there is a definitive right and definitive wrong. However, I also have the common sense (decency?) to take into account the level of ignorance we humans typically have about that moral compass, especially given other societal and cultural norms. If one society says it's okay to behead someone because they read a different religious book than what the government allows, I'd think there's some moral high ground we can take to call shenanigans on that practice. I also think that the first response we should have as outsiders with a superior ethic isn't to run in with guns blazin'; instead call them out on it. Make them aware that what they're doing is wrong. Make them understand why it is wrong. Because odds are they don't know and think everything is honkey dorey. Use the UN, use NATO, whatever; as long as we're attempting to educate them on their unethical practices.

  2. #882
    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    Yes. Deadly serious. Misogyny is a thing because women are oppressed in a society that favours men. Misandry isn't a thing because society doesn't favour women. Certain aspects of society may favour women, but those are almost universally as a result of the patriarchy, which exists because men are not oppressed and women are.
    In what way are women oppressed? Systemic gender inequality, for the most part, doesn't exist. The only instances of gender inequality today are a result of holdovers of our archaic mindsets from when those systemic gender inequalities did exist. They disfavor both men and women in a plethora of instances.

    Most reasonable definitions of misandry have it defined independently on its source. Even if it's perpetuated by the patriarchy, it still is misandry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    Sexual harrassment, unequal pay, sexual double standards, representation in the media, social expectations (with regards to things like unpaid labour at home), access to reproductive health,
    None of those are oppression by any standards that aren't trivial. You're also over-playing the truth of most of those, other than the first and last.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flutterguy View Post
    In fact, I quite like it and I would consider it an abuse to inflict my child with a foreskin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    You don't appear to understand how it works...they don't stick it on when the baby is born.

  3. #883
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinra1 View Post
    Defending yourself is one thing however pre-meditating mass murder under the guise of a party is not only despicable but actually offends sacred hospitium.
    How else do you suggest she defend herself?

    Also calling her husband a rapist and a pedophile is flagrantly ignorant.
    I did not call him a pedophile, and while he might not have felt like a rapist because of the culture he was raised in, the fact is that the girl was his sex slave. She did not consent to the marriage, therefore she did not consent to consummate the marriage. She was facing a lifetime of rape, and possibly death, because a child bearing a child is potentially deadly, especially in those parts of the world.

    "Early and forced marriage is classified as modern-day slavery by the U.N. labor organization."

    How is Shinra1 more qualified to speak on what constitutes slavery?

  4. #884
    In Nigerian culture as well as a few other African countries, these types of marriages are common. They are often breed out of "Necessity" rather than malice. Traditionally speaking (I'm going to be cutting out a lot of nuance here) Guy marries girl. Guy gives girl's family things such as livestock, land, etc. And they are required to continue providing this for some time.

    Yes. It is appealing that there are still counties where woman are used as a part of a transaction. Yes. I do believe that their society needs to be changed, however all that murder did was land her in prison where she will probably die of "Unknown Reasons" and her family is up a creek financially now because of the way those things work.


    Its easy to paint a sinister face on the families of the "transaction" however that is how things have been in that region for thousands of years. It is easy for us, the enlighten ones who like to believe that we have thrown off our shackles of antiquity to look into their system and point fingers, however for them, that is all they know and how things are and as far as they are concerned, how things will always be.

    So to murder a man who's only crime (Within that system) was following the system and condemning the families of both of those people for the crime of doing things the only way their culture did it for thousands of years solves absolutely nothing.

    As brave as she was for preferring jail over marrying someone that she does not love seems in our culture, in her culture, she's a selfish cold blooded murderer that decided to put her own interests over that of the family.

    What i am trying to say is that the culture needs to change there. That wont happen if everybody in the west who have no sense of cultural awareness throw insults at a culture that they cannot hope to understand nor want to understand.

    Everything in green is a fact. If you disagree with it tough shit. Take it up with African culture.
    Last edited by Ralgarog; 2014-04-11 at 02:43 PM.

  5. #885
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violent View Post
    Who are ANY of you to say that it isn't "the right way" to do things? Let me guess, because you believe you're doing it the "right way"? Guess what! People from that culture don't believe YOU are doing it right.. What now?
    There's a difference between forcing people to do something and giving them a choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinra1 View Post
    By supporting her action you're consequentially telling me that mass murder is okay if you have been wronged by a single person.
    I do not support her, I understand why she did this. I've said that I neither condone or condemn what she did. She could have done it better but being a young person in such a situation I do not expect her to be entirely logical when planning her way out of it. I'm never going to condemn her for doing what she felt she needed to do in order to get out of that situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    A child in muslim culture might also understand that getting married is a good thing. Because that's what it generally is in their society. It's the key to a better, or even an actual, life.
    You have evidence of this I hope. Because I have no evidence proving it to be objectively so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Why killing them before the marriage would have been pointless? No marriage would have happened.
    It could very well still have and she may have actually had faith in her parents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Did I call you stupid?
    You said my "logic is stupid" which by extension implies the same of me.

  6. #886
    I am Murloc! zephid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poser765 View Post
    Now is it really "religion" that is attacking women's right or is it inherently sexist pigs who are trying to justify their actions with religion?
    Well it's both, really. If you for example would follow the bible blindly without adjusting it's teachings to our modern day society you would be a sexist pig. It's as simple as that.

  7. #887
    Quote Originally Posted by zephid View Post
    Well it's both, really. If you for example would follow the bible blindly without adjusting it's teachings to our modern day society you would be a sexist pig. It's as simple as that.
    Oh absolutely, but do you have any idea how many people follow the bible in it's entirety and take it literally? Not many.
    Get a grip man! It's CHEESE!

  8. #888
    I am Murloc! zephid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poser765 View Post
    Oh absolutely, but do you have any idea how many people follow the bible in it's entirety and take it literally? Not many.
    Not many, but they exist. The point is that religion, at least Christianity and Islam, are sexist. We have to make adjustments for them to be acceptable in today's society.

  9. #889
    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bervose View Post
    You have evidence of this I hope. Because I have no evidence proving it to be objectively so.
    Marriage leads to having a home, food and kids. A woman without a husband has nothing in poor muslim countries.
    It could very well still have and she may have actually had faith in her parents.
    Faith? What faith? If her parents said she is going to get married to that man, what "faith" should there still be? If she killed her parents before the agreement of the marriage had been made, she wouldn't have been married to that man. It's just as moral as her killing her husband.

    You said my "logic is stupid" which by extension implies the same of me.
    Yes, your logic was flawed and therefore stupid. I didn't call you stupid, you made the conclusion yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  10. #890
    Herald of the Titans Violent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullderp View Post
    I mentioned earlier that I am a moral absolutist. Means that I think there is a definitive right and definitive wrong. However, I also have the common sense (decency?) to take into account the level of ignorance we humans typically have about that moral compass, especially given other societal and cultural norms. If one society says it's okay to behead someone because they read a different religious book than what the government allows, I'd think there's some moral high ground we can take to call shenanigans on that practice. I also think that the first response we should have as outsiders with a superior ethic isn't to run in with guns blazin'; instead call them out on it. Make them aware that what they're doing is wrong. Make them understand why it is wrong. Because odds are they don't know and think everything is honkey dorey. Use the UN, use NATO, whatever; as long as we're attempting to educate them on their unethical practices.

    Right.. Education is what they need.. Most places that are in the "grips" of arranged marriages and what not often have other, "weird" and out-dated customs. Many of which are only products of insane rulers, misplaced beliefs in certain religions, and just an all-around misguided view of life & how life is meant to be lived.

    Bashing a culture and saying "You're wrong! You're wrong!" Does nothing but fuel hate & animosity towards eachother.. (Look at the muslims & 9/11) Obviously they have a problem with how we live & what not.. But, did they come n talk to us about it? Try to appeal to reason? No, they flew our own planes into our buildings.

    But, that type of thinking, usually comes from places who have arranged marriages, the women are "no one", and the children work like adults.

    Again though.. You can't really scream for "freedom of choice" and then want everyone to act & live the way we do.
    It's a two-way street, just because you don't agree with the choice they made, they still were able to make a choice to live & marry that way.

    What I see most of all from people in this thread is that, you want to give "freedom of choice", but then you also want to make sure whomever makes "the right" choice. (according to you)

    It's really quite funny.. I believe 90% of you here, don't know what the "right way" is.
    <~$~("The truth, is limitless in its range. If you drop a 'T' and look at it in reverse, it could hurt.")~$~> L.F.

    <~$~("The most hopelessly stupid man is he who is not aware he is wise.")~$~> I.A.

  11. #891
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullderp View Post
    This is where I'm hesitant to agree with you. I'm a moral absolutist, but I have to take into account the level of ignorance on the part of the individuals who weren't directly involved with this marriage. Who all attended? I would assume family; parents, siblings, aunts and uncles, possibly grandparents, etc. I can't verify that, but it would make most sense. That said, assuming it were true, how would her siblings be accomplices if they were forced to attend out of tradition/obligation/because-i'm-your-parent-and-i-said-so? Because they sat their in their cultural ignorance of the wrongdoing going on about them, they deserve to "suffer but not die"? Or the wives/aunts/etc who are forced to attend because of their societal position which is equivalent to an object rather than a person? They most likely didn't have a choice to be there.

    I'm honestly having a hard time justifying their suffering on her behalf, when, in all likelihood, they've suffered under the same cultural norms that she's being subjected to.
    Ok maybe I should have been a little more specific. I personally think that the ones who whole heartedly believe that this is right should suffer. But I also know that there is and always will be collateral in such situations. As for her female relatives. I have a mixed stances. On hand I wish stood up form themselves like she do but they deserve to suffer for their inaction. But the same time what could they do? And that leaves me a little mff'ed at the whole ordeal as I believe that the murder the bride committed was justified but a lot of people are bitching about she should have done it and that would leave she to become a fuck doll for her husband.
    But what I also this has done is that It will make waves in the international community and help them realise that the humanitarian aid given to people isn't wasted because the people are stupid and stubborn in changing their ways. but that they need it more than ever because of the actions of this girl in Nigeria being the one out of millions who took action while the rest of the young girls in nigeria wish to do it but are too afraid to do such a drastic but brave thing.
    Nihilism is not the end but the beginning of what is real. Making something out of nothing.
    Yeah I'm an Asshole but I'd rather be critical as fuck than to sugarcoat everything in fear of offending people. Get tough and endure.

  12. #892
    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killyox View Post
    Hey, lets force you to marry guy twice your age. You have no say in the matter and you will literally become his slave (also sex slave) as well as punching bag.

    Have fun. Seems you see no wrong in it.
    1. How do you know she was her slave?
    2. How do you know she was her sex slave?
    3. How do you know he beat her?

    You are just making a huge list of accusative assumptions about the man.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  13. #893
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukioish View Post
    Now now, internet psychos, she DID murder a whole bunch of people. Lets not celebrate that fact too much, eh? Nothing good came of this, whether the marriage or the murder, so lets just agree that life isn't fair.
    Did you expect mongoloids on MMOChampion to exert even the tiniest iota of intelligent thought when they bubbled up an opinion on a situation like this?

    Shame on you!

  14. #894
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Killing someone who had every intention of raping a young teenager is a good thing, in my book. Fuck your moral relativism.
    You used moral relativism to determine that murder was acceptable in this case however you say fuck moral relativism? I'm not sure if you know what moral relativism means.

    Because murder is always murder and should always be treated as such if you are looking it from an objective moral view.

  15. #895
    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violent View Post
    Right.. Education is what they need.. Most places that are in the "grips" of arranged marriages and what not often have other, "weird" and out-dated customs. Many of which are only products of insane rulers, misplaced beliefs in certain religions, and just an all-around misguided view of life & how life is meant to be lived.

    Bashing a culture and saying "You're wrong! You're wrong!" Does nothing but fuel hate & animosity towards eachother.. (Look at the muslims & 9/11) Obviously they have a problem with how we live & what not.. But, did they come n talk to us about it? Try to appeal to reason? No, they flew our own planes into our buildings.

    But, that type of thinking, usually comes from places who have arranged marriages, the women are "no one", and the children work like adults.

    Again though.. You can't really scream for "freedom of choice" and then want everyone to act & live the way we do.
    It's a two-way street, just because you don't agree with the choice they made, they still were able to make a choice to live & marry that way.

    What I see most of all from people in this thread is that, you want to give "freedom of choice", but then you also want to make sure whomever makes "the right" choice. (according to you)

    It's really quite funny.. I believe 90% of you here, don't know what the "right way" is.
    Do you honestly think that muslims didn't talk to you before 9/11? As long as there has been US presence in the Arabic states (from 1980's or so) there has been lots of talk between those two factions. It's not like they just suddenly decided that USA is evil and smash planes into the buildings. They tried discussion, didn't work.

    By the way, there is no "right way".
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  16. #896
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Do you honestly think that muslims didn't talk to you before 9/11? As long as there has been US presence in the Arabic states (from 1980's or so) there has been lots of talk between those two factions. It's not like they just suddenly decided that USA is evil and smash planes into the buildings. They tried discussion, didn't work.

    By the way, there is no "right way".
    More like 1940's

  17. #897
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralgarog View Post
    In Nigerian culture as well as a few other African countries, these types of marriages are common. They are often breed out of "Necessity" rather than malice. Traditionally speaking (I'm going to be cutting out a lot of nuance here) Guy marries girl. Guy gives girl's family things such as livestock, land, etc. And they are required to continue providing this for some time.

    Yes. It is appealing that there are still counties where woman are used as a part of a transaction. Yes. I do believe that their society needs to be changed, however all that murder did was land her in prison where she will probably die of "Unknown Reasons" and her family is up a creek financially now because of the way those things work.


    Its easy to paint a sinister face on the families of the "transaction" however that is how things have been in that region for thousands of years. It is easy for us, the enlighten ones who like to believe that we have thrown off our shackles of antiquity to look into their system and point fingers, however for them, that is all they know and how things are and as far as they are concerned, how things will always be.

    So to murder a man who's only crime (Within that system) was following the system and condemning the families of both of those people for the crime of doing things the only way their culture did it for thousands of years solves absolutely nothing.

    As brave as she was for preferring jail over marrying someone that she does not love seems in our culture, in her culture, she's a selfish cold blooded murderer that decided to put her own interests over that of the family.

    What i am trying to say is that the culture needs to change there. That wont happen if everybody in the west who have no sense of cultural awareness throw insults at a culture that they cannot hope to understand nor want to understand.

    Everything in green is a fact. If you disagree with it tough shit. Take it up with African culture.
    Well I was always aware of those fact. But I rather would see women having right an to have them being the livestock or men. Changes should made period. But they should be gradual not drastic
    Nihilism is not the end but the beginning of what is real. Making something out of nothing.
    Yeah I'm an Asshole but I'd rather be critical as fuck than to sugarcoat everything in fear of offending people. Get tough and endure.

  18. #898
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralgarog View Post
    In Nigerian culture as well as a few other African countries, these types of marriages are common. They are often breed out of "Necessity" rather than malice. Traditionally speaking (I'm going to be cutting out a lot of nuance here) Guy marries girl. Guy gives girl's family things such as livestock, land, etc. And they are required to continue providing this for some time.

    Yes. It is appealing that there are still counties where woman are used as a part of a transaction. Yes. I do believe that their society needs to be changed, however all that murder did was land her in prison where she will probably die of "Unknown Reasons" and her family is up a creek financially now because of the way those things work.


    Its easy to paint a sinister face on the families of the "transaction" however that is how things have been in that region for thousands of years. It is easy for us, the enlighten ones who like to believe that we have thrown off our shackles of antiquity to look into their system and point fingers, however for them, that is all they know and how things are and as far as they are concerned, how things will always be.

    So to murder a man who's only crime (Within that system) was following the system and condemning the families of both of those people for the crime of doing things the only way their culture did it for thousands of years solves absolutely nothing.

    As brave as she was for preferring jail over marrying someone that she does not love seems in our culture, in her culture, she's a selfish cold blooded murderer that decided to put her own interests over that of the family.

    What i am trying to say is that the culture needs to change there. That wont happen if everybody in the west who have no sense of cultural awareness throw insults at a culture that they cannot hope to understand nor want to understand.

    Everything in green is a fact. If you disagree with it tough shit. Take it up with African culture.
    Could we never use that horribly bright green again? Thanks.

  19. #899
    Deleted
    Good riddance

  20. #900
    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Could we never use that horribly bright green again? Thanks.
    The truth lies in the ectoplasm!
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

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