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  1. #1041
    Quote Originally Posted by aikoyamamato View Post
    From the article:


    The parents might have agreed to marry the child, but the child had no say. She was forced into it. It was a forced marriage.
    You don't understand.

    In a forced marriage The child is forced to marry someone else.
    In an Arranged marriage, the child is forced to marry someone else.

    In both cases, the child is forced to marry someone else, however a Forced marriage is the girl's family does not consent to the marriage or they are coerced into the marriage whereas in an Arrange marriage, the girl is forced to marry the guy and both the parents of the guy and the girl agree to the union.
    The problem is with the wording of the article.

  2. #1042
    HAHAHAH OWNED!!! Get em girl!

  3. #1043

  4. #1044
    Death sucks, but this seems to have been justified.

  5. #1045
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralgarog View Post
    Is your MO trying to drive people into a fit of rage by pretending to not understand them? Because again, i agree with you and what you are linking, however i condensed a paragraph into two lines.
    You say you agree with me but say:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralgarog View Post
    I agree. This situation in this story is an Arranged Marriage.
    Yeah, no. You don't agree with me then since it is a forced marriage, not arranged.

  6. #1046
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralgarog View Post
    You don't understand.

    In a forced marriage The child is forced to marry someone else.
    In an Arranged marriage, the child is forced to marry someone else.

    In both cases, the child is forced to marry someone else, however a Forced marriage is the girl's family does not consent to the marriage or they are coerced into the marriage whereas in an Arrange marriage, the girl is forced to marry the guy and both the parents of the guy and the girl agree to the union.
    The problem is with the wording of the article.
    Well then read mine, because the wording is crystal clear.
    9 out of 10 people agree that in a room full of 10 people one person will always disagree with the other 9.

  7. #1047
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralgarog View Post
    Look. I can see that you are a nice guy and you are approaching this from a sincere place in your heart.

    However your morals do not apply here. Nor do top layer objective morals such as "killing is bad" or "Rape is bad".

    The society that you are looking in on has a different set of morals and a different set of expectations. You really don't seem to be understanding that. In her society, that is the way 50% of marriages are made. In her town, that is the way 100% of the marriages are made. It is, within her society, a social expectation as a female, to look forward to who she's going to be paired with and maybe hope that its someone that she would love.

    I do not agree with her society. I do not agree with her societal expectations. However it does not matter what i think about the situation. My opinion does not change reality.

    She, within the context of her society, acted out of line and committed murder.

    Let me try to put this into a similar situation using western situations and morals.

    A girl and a boy fell in love. At this point in their life they are living together. At a point the boy proposes to the girl. She agrees. Later that same night she murders him. Her reason was, "He forced me into a situation where the only possible answer was yes because if i said no he would of kicked me out. I don't have a job and i have no family to go to."

    She is absolutely 100% correct with what she said. However the guy did absolutely nothing wrong and he fully conformed to societal grounds. Maybe there is some future alien society they have a morality where you should not force a woman into a situation like that, however who are they to say that the woman was right in this case?

    My hypothetical example is more than likely just as stupid to you, as the concept of the real case to a lot of Nigerians.
    No I get that. But she didn't want to be a part of it so she did something about it. Wether she wanted to make a statement or not, I think she did something good by standing up. There are probably many more in her situation. How are things ever going to change if everyone accepts everything in their life because of traditions and society. How far back would the world be if people always just went a long with stuff, no matter how unhappy they were.

    My morals very much apply here because this is about our views on it. Since I'm not nigerian or a part of that society my view is that it is disgusting to force someone into a marriage. My opinion is that murder is also wrong however her situation somewhat justified it. I don't agree with how they treated her.

  8. #1048
    Moderator -aiko-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralgarog View Post
    You don't understand.

    In a forced marriage The child is forced to marry someone else.
    In an Arranged marriage, the child is forced to marry someone else.
    No, in an arranged marriage the two are given a choice. For example, an o-miai in Japanese tradition has family members choose potential mates. It is up to the man and woman to agree to the marriage though. There might be cultures that call forcing a child to marry an 'arranged marriage' but what do we then call an o-miai if it is not an arranged or forced marriage with your definition?

  9. #1049
    I see the cause of misunderstanding.

    In a lot of African Cultures, Arranged Marriage and Forced Marriage are judged by completely different criteria. It is not left to the decision of the girl, but to the family, however it is so normalized that the girl usually never disagrees in that situation.

  10. #1050
    I was just watching a few documentaries on this exact subject.. you know how you watch one and youtube or netflix says "hey you must want to watch this one too!".. Each country that has a problem with child brides has their own reason why and if I remember correctly in Nigeria its thought that having sex with a virgin can cure aides just like in Victorian England it was thought that having sex with a virgin could cure syphilis..

    This is a very sad situation but in most places it is SLOWLY improving, even if its a handful of girls running away to the authories(think that was in India or Pakistan, I forget) when it is actually illegal.

    As for this girl murdering people.. I dont agree with that. I think she could have run away but that may not solve the problem either.

  11. #1051
    Quote Originally Posted by aikoyamamato View Post
    No, in an arranged marriage the two are given a choice. For example, an o-miai in Japanese tradition has family members choose potential mates. It is up to the man and woman to agree to the marriage though. There might be cultures that call forcing a child to marry an 'arranged marriage' but what do we then call an o-miai if it is not an arranged or forced marriage with your definition?

    It's not my definition. Its the definition used in a lot of African countries.

  12. #1052
    Moderator -aiko-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralgarog View Post
    I see the cause of misunderstanding.

    In a lot of African Cultures, Arranged Marriage and Forced Marriage are judged by completely different criteria. It is not left to the decision of the girl, but to the family, however it is so normalized that the girl usually never disagrees in that situation.
    The definitions we need to attach are 'global', if you will. This would 'globally' be recognized as a forced marriage, because the child was left no choice. Despite what the Africans would call it or think. I guess I can see some confusion there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal
    The family can all but "force" the two... Im sure you have met Smothers before.
    Sure, yeah. There can be some heavy influence like political, social and family pressure. And smothers.

  13. #1053
    Quote Originally Posted by aikoyamamato View Post
    The definitions we need to attach are 'global', if you will. This would 'globally' be recognized as a forced marriage, because the child was left no choice. Despite what the Africans would call it or think. I guess I can see some confusion there.

    Sure, yeah. There can be some heavy influence like political, social and family pressure. And smothers.
    While i agree with what you said and i do see the need for global definitions for most terms, i hope you can appreciate how insulting it can be from a lot of African culture's standpoint to be told that having a joint union between two families is the exact same thing as essentially selling their daughter into slavery against their (The Family's) will.
    Last edited by Ralgarog; 2014-04-11 at 06:59 PM.

  14. #1054
    Moderator -aiko-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralgarog View Post
    While i agree with what you said and i do see the need for global definitions for most terms, i hope you can appreciate how insulting it can be from a lot of African culture's standpoint to be told that having a joint union between two families is the exact same thing as essentially selling their daughter into slavery against their (The Family's) will.
    Hopefully this helps them realize that neither practice is acceptable.

  15. #1055
    I think a lot of people just don't understand how brutal life in Nigeria is. Google "Jungle Justice" or "Nigerian necklacing" and look at the images. This is a country so scary, living there would be a nightmare. I think forced marriages pale in comparison to the other atrocities committed there. They take great joy in other peoples suffering.

  16. #1056
    Deleted
    Would do the same probably. Women are not worth shit in Nigeria, they are treated like property, they can be sold and traded like property.Run away? Where do you want her to go, to die in the jungle or to be forced to prostitute herself? Such marriages are not illegal in Nigeria, no authority would take her in and take care of her.

    They did not leave her any choice like "Mom, Dad I don''t want to be married to a guy whom I don't even love!"Unfortunately, the bride will probably be killed.But kudos to her for fighting back. And yes, I defend her. Pushed to the limits she stood up with the only means she had available.

  17. #1057
    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    Sorry, but it is the case in a lot of cases. It's not as extreme as in the west, but half the shit girls grow up watching (disney movies since forever) just teach you that your lot in life is to find a prince and marry him and make babies and live happily ever after under his bootheel.

    And yep, a lot of things are bad for men, but all of the things you just listed are a result of the patriarchy - which is a system of oppression implemented by men. Just, occasionally it bites back against men. That doesn't mean that the patriarchy and oppression of women isn't a real thing.
    Funny how in all those Disney movies the men go to extraordinary lengths to find these princesses, pamper them, love them, fight for them and die for them. If you're suggesting women do not want that kind of devotion and commitment, I don't know what to tell you. Does a 9-5 office job in "the mans world" sound better to you than that?

    *~To change one's life: Start immediately. Do it flamboyantly.~*

  18. #1058
    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    Sorry, but it is the case in a lot of cases. It's not as extreme as in the west, but half the shit girls grow up watching (disney movies since forever) just teach you that your lot in life is to find a prince and marry him and make babies and live happily ever after under his bootheel.

    And yep, a lot of things are bad for men, but all of the things you just listed are a result of the patriarchy - which is a system of oppression implemented by men. Just, occasionally it bites back against men. That doesn't mean that the patriarchy and oppression of women isn't a real thing.
    I missed this post, but this is the kind of shit I hate. Men were brought up in the society just as women were and are similarly a product of society. That maybe at some point in the past some men got together and concocted these rules, if such an event ever even took place and didn't just arise from prehuman behaviors, is no reason to wave away harm it does to men today. Every person who acts in accordance with a culture is complicit in upholding the culture, regardless of sex. Responsibility is assigned on individual actions, not sex, and to try to do otherwise is to yourself engage in sexism.

  19. #1059
    Id love to have more info but judging by what is said in the article:
    "The suspect confessed to committing the crime and said she did it because she was forced to marry a man she did not love,"
    i could have understood murdering some1 who where abusing you or hurt you but murering some1 because you didnt love them? and his m8s who were inncent bystanders?!

    throw this girl in jail and let her rot imo, while we cant know for sure if her husband misstreated her we can be pretty sure his friends hadnt hurt her.. yet she had no problem murdering them aswell and that alone should warrant a harsh punishment.

  20. #1060
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    Id love to have more info but judging by what is said in the article:
    "The suspect confessed to committing the crime and said she did it because she was forced to marry a man she did not love,"
    i could have understood murdering some1 who where abusing you or hurt you but murering some1 because you didnt love them? and his m8s who were inncent bystanders?!

    throw this girl in jail and let her rot imo, while we cant know for sure if her husband misstreated her we can be pretty sure his friends hadnt hurt her.. yet she had no problem murdering them aswell and that alone should warrant a harsh punishment.
    Hmmm maybe you don't understand this is Nigeria. She wont be thrown in a cell, she will be dragged out, stripped naked, beaten with sticks, have a tire filled with gas put around her neck, and be given a match. They will then shove a broken bottle up her vagina and force her to light herself on fire. After all that she will have her head crushed in by a giant boulder and dragged around the village for all to see. That's jungle justice, that's how they do in Nigeria.

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