Child Bride Kills Husband and his 3 buddies

[Deleted]

Just because you are a moral absolutist doesn't mean that you are right.

You want to enforce your morals upon others, just because you think you are right and they are wrong.

One should think morals as a strategy. There are various strategies to achieve the same goal. Some are more efficient than others.

Here the goal is a working society. Their strategy, aka morals, works to achieve that. As such, no matter how loud you shout, it won't change because their system works and it's efficient. A unilateral free will would probably make their society crumble. If their present system didn't work, they would want to rework their strategy - but for now there is no need. The only way you can change their society now is to enforce yours upon them. Which I think is immoral.

That's all well and good, and maybe you think that forcing your morals on others is bad, but isn't that essentially what the husband was trying to do? Force his morality (Forced marriage is okay etc etc) onto someone (the child) who's morals were in disagreement with this. She thought forced marriage was not okay, and shouldn't be forced into it. He can find someone else who is okay with the concept of forced marriage. Not everyone in a society has the same morals.

[Shinra1]

A wildly incompetent and naive 14 year old. Who would have thought?


So you disagree with the U.N. labor organization which classifies early and forced marriage as modern-day slavery. Again, I ask, what makes you more qualified to decide what does and does not constitute slavery?

Buying a slave, and then buying a ring for their finger doesn't emancipate them. The practice of selling daughters as child brides is essentially socially sanctioned child trafficking.

First of all it's not an early marriage; she is 14 and as someone correctly stated above 14 is legal in some states in the US. And as I mentioned in my previous post it's widely practiced across the world and has been practiced in the West as well.

Secondly, the UN is heavily Westernised, that is, it perpetuates ideals held by secular nations where liberalism is the agenda. It doesn't recognised Sharia Law or indeed Islamic states like Nigeria. Bringing the U.N laws in to the discussion is hardly relevant, so spare me the theatrics.

Thirdly, you keep mentioning the words slave and slavery yet nowhere in the original article have I read that this 14 year old girl has been sold or indeed bought. Weird because you'd think if this was indeed the case the newspaper would've commented on it.

Finally, what innocent child would device a plan to mass murder 14 people? Perhaps she was married off because she was mature for her age or she was troublesome and her parents thought that marriage might ground her?

[Deleted]

I'm amazed how much discussion there is here and angst between people.

Seriously, details are very vague. WE know almost nothing.

How can you objectively judge particular case without complete info ?

Just shows people here should not be judges. Jumping to conclusions, assumptions and sentences based on nothing of substance.

Meh.

[Puupi]

That's all well and good, and maybe you think that forcing your morals on others is bad, but isn't that essentially what the husband was trying to do? Force his morality (Forced marriage is okay etc etc) onto someone (the child) who's morals were in disagreement with this. She thought forced marriage was not okay, and shouldn't be forced into it. He can find someone else who is okay with the concept of forced marriage. Not everyone in a society has the same morals.

Well from a certain viewpoint (forcing the marriage) you are correct, but then again, you need to drop the western mindset. Children are not making decisions in a muslim society. A decision about marriage is not children's to make. Just like children aren't doing decisions in a western society, hence for example the age limit for voting is generally 18.

[Deleted]

I'm amazed how much discussion there is here and angst between people.

Seriously, details are very vague. WE know almost nothing.

How can you objectively judge particular case without complete info ?

Just shows people here should not be judges. Jumping to conclusions, assumptions and sentences based on nothing of substance.

Meh.

We know she was in a forced marriage. That is all you need to know. Any other circumstances are irrelevant.

[Shinra1]

I'm amazed how much discussion there is here and angst between people.

Seriously, details are very vague. WE know almost nothing.

How can you objectively judge particular case without complete info ?

Just shows people here should not be judges. Jumping to conclusions, assumptions and sentences based on nothing of substance.

Meh.

This.


According to some people the man is a rapist and physically abusive oh and he bought her too. You guys give reading between the lines a whole new meaning.

[Deleted]

Well from a certain viewpoint (forcing the marriage) you are correct, but then again, you need to drop the western mindset. Children are not making decisions in a muslim society. A decision about marriage is not children's to make. Just like children aren't doing decisions in a western society, hence for example the age limit for voting is generally 18.

So, let me get this straight. A child is old enough to marry, but not old enough to have views on what is moral and immoral regarding marriage? Don't you think that's a little... broken?

[AndaliteBandit]

First of all it's not an early marriage; she is 14 and as someone correctly stated above 14 is legal in some states in the US. And as I mentioned in my previous post it's widely practiced across the world and has been practiced in the West as well.

Secondly, the UN has a is heavily Westernised, that is, it perpetuates ideals held by secular nations where liberalism is the agenda. It doesn't recognised Sharia Law or indeed Islamic states like Nigeria. Bringing the U.N laws in to the discussion is hardly relevant, so spare me the theatrics.

Thirdly, you keep mentioning the words slave and slavery yet nowhere in the original article have I read that this 14 year old girl has been sold or indeed bought. Weird because you'd think if this was indeed the case the newspaper would've commented on it.

Answer these questions:

If she didn't consent to the marriage, how did she consent to consummating it? Could she have faced potential repercussions for leaving? Could she have faced potential repercussions for attempting to refuse sexual intercourse?

Finally, what innocent child would device a plan to mass murder 14 people? Perhaps she was married off because she was mature for her age or she was troublesome and her parents thought that marriage might ground her?

Perhaps a 14 year old girl who for whatever silly reasons feels as if she was raped, and is facing a lifetime of more rape, and is probably going to be expected to bear the children of whom she feels is her rapist, which could very possibly kill her? Do you not acknowledge any remote possibility that this girl felt she had been raped? Growing up in a culture that condones rape doesn't make the rape victim feel any less raped, it just allows the rapist to escape culpability.

[Hyve]

While I do feel it's wrong to have arranged marriages, especially with a 14 year old girl, it is part of their culture, been around for thousands of years and who are we to judge one culture, to make comparisons?

Naturally, almost all species (Including our own) have a system where as soon as the females are able to breed, they're turned into a broodmare. I don't agree with it, and I wouldn't pretend it's acceptable because we used to do it, but it is their culture, it's their way of life and it isn't our place to condemn their practices, although we can disagree with it.

I think poisoning the entire party was a little extreme, but her situation was extreme. She should however still be dealt with within the eyes of the law, but potentially with a diminished sentence such as Manslaughter rather then Murder?

[Puupi]

We know she was in a forced marriage. That is all you need to know. Any other circumstances are irrelevant.

I've been forced to do tons of stuff in my life. Some things just need to be done. In a muslim world, marriage is one of them.

[Deleted]

Actually if you'd read this thread you'd know I do not applaud what the girl did. However killing an abductor is something that you cannot blame her for. Killing the other people however was wrong but considering her situation I'm not going to call her evil for it.

Yeah no.

If she was desperate to get out she could've put something less strong in.

She wanted to kill them, which makes her a psycho.

[Bullderp]

Just because you are a moral absolutist doesn't mean that you are right.

You want to enforce your morals upon others, just because you think you are right and they are wrong.

One should think morals as a strategy. There are various strategies to achieve the same goal. Some are more efficient than others.

Here the goal is a working society. Their strategy, aka morals, works to achieve that. As such, no matter how loud you shout, it won't change because their system works and it's efficient. A unilateral free will would probably make their society crumble. If their present system didn't work, they would want to rework their strategy - but for now there is no need. The only way you can change their society now is to enforce yours upon them. Which I think is immoral.

Using my earlier example--beheading for reading banned religious books--just because they think this is the right thing to do doesn't make it so. There are some things which are, or should be, universally accepted as morally right or wrong. If human rights are being violated in certain countries, we can and should have the moral obligation to step in and see these human rights are upheld. Cultural sensitivity only goes so far.

[Fexus]

We know she was in a forced marriage. That is all you need to know. Any other circumstances are irrelevant.

That's not true.

Situation 1: girl is in a forced marriage. Her husband is a sadist who tortures and rapes her daily.
Situation 2: girl is in a forced marriage. Her husband is generally kind to her and treats her with at least a small amount of respect.

Would you be willing to say the differences between those two situations are irrelevant?

[Deleted]

I've been forced to do tons of stuff in my life. Some things just need to be done. In a muslim world, marriage is one of them.

Being forced to take the trash out or being forced to do your homework are a little different to being forced to marry (potentially for life) a man you do not wish to marry, to have sex with him as and when he desires (as is the case in their culture), bear his children without a say in the matter, and risk your life in doing so.

You have to see there is a bit of a difference in those things. Even the most serious things you are forced to do in the west (like... you are forced (pretty much) to go to a particular school by your parents) are really nothing compared to that. Also, in the west you have a lot more legal protection for the extreme things you don't want to do. You have places you can call (child abuse places like Childline) if the things you are being forced to do are too extreme.

[Deleted]

we can and should have the moral obligation to step in and see these human rights are upheld.

To quote the Internet about Obama:

'' Syrians killing Syrians! Let's kill the Syrians so they can stop killing Syrians! ''

[BetrayedOf52]

SO much unfair death in this world, to good people who don't deserve it. So when situations like this occur, i'm quite happy with how it turned out. I mean put yourself in her shoes. Right you can't.

[Fexus]

She wanted to kill them, which makes her a psycho.

People desire to kill and do kill for many reasons that are not attributable to psychopathy.

[Deleted]

That's not true.

Situation 1: girl is in a forced marriage. Her husband is a sadist who tortures and rapes her daily.
Situation 2: girl is in a forced marriage. Her husband is generally kind to her and treats her with at least a small amount of respect.

Would you be willing to say the differences between those two situations are irrelevant?

Absolutley. In both cases regardless of whether the husband is nice or not, a child in a forced marriage that she does not want to be in is utterly disgusting and unforgiveable.

[Jaxi]

Yeah no.

If she was desperate to get out she could've put something less strong in.

She wanted to kill them, which makes her a psycho.

Ah the judgments of the first world. Of course she would have the access and skill to a poison that would only target her husband at a party with multiple people in Nigeria.

[Deleted]

Absolutley. In both cases regardless of whether the husband is nice or not, a child in a forced marriage that she does not want to be in is utterly disgusting and unforgiveable.

So is killing four people.