Flex in WoD: Alts?

[MrExcelion]

Hey all, something I haven't seen talked about is the new setup for Flex in WoD, which will be renamed normal. (and I'll refer to it by their proper/new names hereafter to prevent confusion)

In WoD, it will no longer use a wing system, and you'll have to travel there by ground mount (at least until 6.1). The whole instance will be available to you, like on Heroic. It will continue to be about 30% easier than Heroic.

Highmaul is like Firelands, 7 bosses, you pick which bosses to do, with a final boss. Blackrock Foundry is 10 bosses, split into 3 wings of 3 like ICC Inner Sanctum, and a final boss, Blackhand. So you'll have freedom on what bosses to do depending on what the group's desires.

The loot system, set by the raid leader, can either be personal like in MoP, or distributed, like heroic. Personal will be the popular option with pugs to prevent drama and faster clears, but some organizers will likely opt for the distributed option for large (20-30) raids, as I think the concept of "reserving" 1 piece of loot might come back like in ICC and TOC 25 man pugs, ala Death's Verdict or DBW. If you're joining up with a persistent group that clears it every week, you'll probably see distributed too. Would have to think distributed maths out better with a persistent group or players will always opt for personal. I know it's really easy to get that Immersus or Dark Shaman caster trinket with personal loot and just 3 items on their loot table, but we'll see how it all maths out.

Quite sure this setup that mimics Heroic is a godsend to the guilds that currently have trouble clearing MoP normals until later in the tier. Now they'll be able to hit it up and progress through the content right away, since it's tuned 30% easier. We'll see if normal progressing into heroic raiding guilds become a thing in WoD, probably will

We'll also have Group Finder in WoD, but I'm not sure it'll be as popular as Oqueue. Hope it will. I currently pug Flex 1 through Other Raids and I notice a lot of people drop after the bosses they need, maybe because it's a cross server thing and you'll never see them again. Still happens with trade chat pugs but not as often. Without the wing setup, I expect similar behavior with Group Finder in WoD, and players using it to cherrypick the bosses they need. There's less reason to stay around if a full clear means 2-3 hours instead of 30 minutes.

I know a large chunk of the R&D populace is 14/14h, or deep into heroics, and you'll probably do it on your main for that extra early advantage, but what about alts? Will you do it on less alts? Previously, you could pinpoint exactly what bosses you needed with the wing system and get in there and out within 30 minutes. Now it's going to be a longer commitment, like current MoP Normal pugs. I'll join MoP flexes at like 1-2am in the morning, but I can't really say the same about the new structure. I think they should have kept one of the main aspects that made Flex successful for pugging, and that was the wing queue system, but I get how this clashes with the notion we're supposed to head on our ground mounts to the instance. With the higher time commitment, thinking I might reign back the alt flex thing a bit in WoD, what about you? Definitely pros and cons to the new setup.

Thanks

[l33t]

I kinda didn't get, what was the question? Will people raid with their alts, even if they have to (HURR DURR) get to the raid on their own??? Yes, they will. You know why? Because for lots of us raiders it became as common as breathing to get to the raid on our own, so even if there will be a couple of lazy guys, they'll be summoned inside by warlocks. As always.

[MrExcelion]

Just polling to see how players plan to approach it in WoD given the new setup/higher time commitment. Was expecting some personal anecdotes about how many toons they do flex on now, and giving some thought to what their schedules will allow. Maybe even raiding more if they like the new distributed loot option and want to try for loot that rolls better stats or a bonus socket. I was also seeing if players think we should have kept the wing queue system, which was part of what made Flex so successful IMO. Watcher said in a recent tweet that it was the most successful new feature on the PVE side of things this xpac, and the ease of pugging certainly helped on the uptake imo. So mostly just getting an overall impression sort of thing from the R&D board.

[Smudge]

I kinda didn't get, what was the question?

And OP's response still didn't clarify what the question was, if there even was one.

[Migraine]

And OP's response still didn't clarify what the question was, if there even was one.

It seemed fairly straightforward to me, the op envisages a larger time commitment for flex, if this is the case would you continue to use flex like you do now whether that be your main or alt?

In response I'm honestly not sure, I used to raid with alts a lot but this expect I haven't done much, when I have raided flex it has been pretty goal orientated ie. get some gear for an alt so it is ready to use in a main run. I don't think the removal of the queue for wing system (did they even confirm this was being removed) will effect how I use flex, I also think that there will be enough groups looking for replacements that you will still be able to cherry pick the bosses you need albeit pulling out the dick move of leaving the group when you kill what you want.

[Deleted]

Personally I think taking alts along to the same raid on an easier difficulty is a way to burn out faster on that raid.

I used to do a lot of alt runs later in WotLK because it was a good chance to take a break from ICC and get another character progressed through Naxx or Ulduar. One of the things I really dislike about the MoP progression model is the fact that multiple difficulty levels invalidate the gear from previous tiers, and everybody is focused on just the latest raid instance.

I'm deliberately avoiding playing any of my alts now because finding groups for MsV/HoF/ToT on those characters is hard to do and running those raids is completely pointless because it's so easy to replace that gear from other places like Timeless isle, SoO LFR and even random BGs. If WoD ends up being the same then I'll probably carry on avoiding my alts and just stick to playing my main for a few hours per week.

[shanattah]

Well normal and heroic share lockout so I doubt I'll do normal on any alts unless they are too shit for heroic. Mythic alt raiding on the other hand looks harder than now to organise and dunno if I'll even try to bother with it outside guild raids

[kamuimac]

Quite sure this setup that mimics Heroic is a godsend to the guilds that currently have trouble clearing MoP normals until later in the tier. Now they'll be able to hit it up and progress through the content right away, since it's tuned 30% easier. We'll see if normal progressing into heroic raiding guilds become a thing in WoD, probably will

no the normal progression path will be HC dungeons -> HC raids > mythic raids - no matter how blizzard will name it flex will be flex which is lower difficulty serving mainly for gearing up alts niothing else - its just naming rationalization cause flex was probably a work name - it will be exackly like its in this tier - flex (future normal) will be consiered lol easy mode since lfr will be out of equation with gear worse then hc dungeons.

the could have progressed like this this tier too - only very few did - most treated it exackly like they asusmed it would be treted - as weekend beer-easy-family-and-friends-mode .

and if u asking how many toons will people run through it ? - good players will run it on more toons - weak players on less - since good players will gear up much faster now with hc dungeons and wont have to spend week in lfr to be at least semi flex ready since catch up gearing will be tkaing mauch much faster via dungeon spamming. - weak players on other hand will be mercilessly kicked from dungeons for failing if those dungeons will be hard like htey did in cata - and thus gearing up for flex will take them significantly more time since it will be normal to demand full hc dungeon gear for new flex since week 1 //shrug and then with each week those requirements will only rise

[MrExcelion]

Well normal and heroic share lockout so I doubt I'll do normal on any alts unless they are too shit for heroic.

Yeah, it'll depend on how the difficulty shakes out, but that's the way I might approach it. If I have the time for normal, I probably have the time for heroic instead with the wing system gone. I was really into 5.4 flex because I can do it at any time of day and just needing a half hour

But the new setup seems like a godsend for friends and family guilds. Distributed loot might be the incentive they need, and it will feel more like guild raiding and progression without the wings

Tbh I think getting rid of the wing system is a bit of a gamble but I get where they're going with it.

[Sliippy]

I think I missed the alt question too.....