WoD Equinox (lvl 100 talent)

[Cyous]

Slowing down the rotation is unnecessary. It's fine without the LMG. If you want to suggest something specifically for Equinox, the best route is to improve core mechanics by way of ...mechanics. (Things like making NG lasts longer.) The best changes are the ones that can improve a talent directly, but also improve other aspects slightly. Not fulfilling a niche, or becoming niche in an aspect, these are fine. But if it fills a niche role, it shouldn't be too strong in other aspects of gameplay, thus allowing the other talents to fill a niche.

There's no reason not to make Equinox an "all-around" talent. Min/Max with Equinox shouldn't be a thing (no niche role.) If Equinox is good for single-target, multi-dot, and AOE, then let Sunfall and IS be great in some aspects.

Game design isn't too hard. Settling on an idea is difficult. From the basics, we get the complexity. Since the basics of Balance druid are not changing (or very small changes), we need to suggest ideas which try their best to build off the basics.

[roxfm]

Game design isn't too hard. Settling on an idea is difficult. From the basics, we get the complexity. Since the basics of Balance druid are not changing (or very small changes), we need to suggest ideas which try their best to build off the basics.

I agree that slowing down our cycle time isn't good, but what are your thoughts on baking in NG baseline? As in removing it altogether but having all our casts automatically benefiting from it - of course tuned to balance it out. Euphoria might have to be reduced slightly (instead of double, maybe 65% more?) to make do with it. The reason why I'm suggesting this is partly because of the really slow casting at initial gear levels. I was turned down a lot by early CM teams because we didn't have anything to do on the move or proper dot spread.

OfficerLahey touched on this already - it wasn't because we were weak per se, but other classes outshined us in the whole "race-to-the-finish" requirement of CMs. The only genuine reason some of my early teams took me in was because I game our Ele/Enh shaman solar beam with Symbiosys. CMs are one of the perfect example of where mushrooms really lose their flavor because they need to be planted way ahead of the path we are taking since mobs are moving (almost) all the time.

This is my personal opinion, but requiring 2-3 addons to do optimal DPS just to be on par with other classes is something that the game should move away from. You've admitted that multi-dotting comes very easily to you and Lappe, and a handful others, but that should not be the standard by which all others should be measured. I'm fairly certain you guys would do well in whatever class you played!

My personal wish list would be:
a) Streamline our AOE'ing ability - either by means of a dot spread mechanic, or something of a reverse Genesis that causes our dots to bleed super fast at a high mana cost.
b) Streamline our scaling - where we almost always see band-aid changes (either positive or negative) in the 2nd+ tiers of each expansion
c) DoT management made slightly easier - because keeping up 2/3 dots on 3-5 targets (council type encounters) is going to be a lot of button mashing.
d) Shooting Star procs made more manageable. Although my mind tells me that any stacking mechanic would not be allowed due to PVP reasons. (Instant Starfire from OF perk + unloading a 2-stack Starsurge is going to be difficult to manage)

[Cyous]

I would like to see Nature's Grace last permanently while using Equinox. In addition, I'd like to see Nature's Grace dip into Haste to improve the Haste benefit (10% baseline, and scaling with 33% of your Haste (9% from haste rating = 3% NG bonus = NG(13%)). Simply put, I don't think Equinox can keep up with IS and SnF in most situations (except AOE maybe).

I don't think modifying Euphoria is a good idea.

[roxfm]

I would like to see Nature's Grace last permanently while using Equinox. In addition, I'd like to see Nature's Grace dip into Haste to improve the Haste benefit (10% baseline, and scaling with 33% of your Haste (9% from haste rating = 3% NG bonus = NG(13%)). Simply put, I don't think Equinox can keep up with IS and SnF in most situations (except AOE maybe).

I don't think modifying Euphoria is a good idea.

Just clarifying, you're suggesting the scaling version of NG at all times, or is that a suggestion specifically for the NG-Equinox version of the spell where it would be active at all times? I think you're suggesting the Haste scaling for NG baseline, but just wanted to make sure.

Having it tied to Eclipse energy (instead of a set timer) would be cool too as suggested earlier.

[Cyous]

Just clarifying, you're suggesting the scaling version of NG at all times, or is that a suggestion specifically for the NG-Equinox version of the spell where it would be active at all times? I think you're suggesting the Haste scaling for NG baseline, but just wanted to make sure.

Having it tied to Eclipse energy (instead of a set timer) would be cool too as suggested earlier.

NG scaling at all times, yeah. It increases the value of Haste overall. Combining that with Equinox, and NG lasting permanently, that'd be a nice single-target niche.

[huth]

I would like to see Nature's Grace last permanently while using Equinox.

Why? That's pretty much counter to the design. Equinox increases your Eclipse uptime to 100% at the cost of reducing your NG uptime and Starfall frequency. It might need some balancing, but i can't see any mechanical problems with that.

[Cyous]

Why? That's pretty much counter to the design. Equinox increases your Eclipse uptime to 100% at the cost of reducing your NG uptime and Starfall frequency. It might need some balancing, but i can't see any mechanical problems with that.

Exactly that reason. It's being balanced around 100% Eclipse and 100% NG uptimes. You remove a lot of cons of Nature's Grace (mechanically). It provides an extremely viable option at low gear levels, but it won't scale up very fast. It's basically a "dragster" -- fast start, but it hits top speed very quickly. It's great for single-target. But as our spellcasting gets quicker with gear, we'll see Equinox actually cap at a certain point, for Haste (because the other talents are still effected by Haste, yeah?) We won't reach that point, except with Bloodlust. This would fill a single-target niche (as well as be very good on sustained AOE, and 2-target encounters compared to other talents.) If I wanted to make Equinox the "overall solid" talent, then making NG scale with only non-instant spells is an option.

[Vanos27]

Why not make the level 100 talents all about our AoE potential?

Falling Stars - Starfall will now change into Sunfall upon entering Solar Eclipse and reset it's cooldown. It now also causes splash damage to nearby targets per star. (I miss this greatly from BC)

Insect Swarm - Replaces Sun Fire (I'd like it to, but it doesn't have to, maybe replace Hurricane/Astral Storm and change IS to Faerie Swarm when in Lunar?). Insect Swarm deals X Nature damage over X second. Each time Insect Swarm deals damage to your target your Insect Swarm will spread to an additional nearby target. This can cause a chain reaction, eg 1 mob, 2 mobs, 4 mobs, 8 mobs etc etc.

Equinox - Like it works now since it buffs Hurricane and Astral Storm (which needs to stop doing less damage than a non-eclipsed Hurricane...) since you're always in an Eclipse. Could also make NG a permanent effect as well. Could also double how fast you gain eclipse energy while channeling to bounce back and forth faster.

[crooklyn]

Hamlet, Dolson, and myself... We've been talking about how to improve Equinox. Still debating it, but yeah...we're concerned too.

ok that's great and all but what does the boom king fountaiin himself think?

[Fountaiin]

ok that's great and all but what does the boom king fountaiin himself think?

can u not...

edit: my guild is full of retards. sorry mmo champ

[Deleted]

I would like to see Nature's Grace last permanently while using Equinox. In addition, I'd like to see Nature's Grace dip into Haste to improve the Haste benefit (10% baseline, and scaling with 33% of your Haste (9% from haste rating = 3% NG bonus = NG(13%)). Simply put, I don't think Equinox can keep up with IS and SnF in most situations (except AOE maybe).

I don't think modifying Euphoria is a good idea.

Imho:

It would be much better if NG was permanent baseline to create a stronger base from which to balance for all 3 talents instead of just Equinox having perma NG (assuming that Starfall/Sunfall snapshots eclipse, please correct if i'm wrong).

[Cyous]

Imho:

It would be much better if NG was permanent baseline to create a stronger base from which to balance for all 3 talents instead of just Equinox having perma NG (assuming that Starfall/Sunfall snapshots eclipse, please correct if i'm wrong).

SF/SuF dont snapshot

NG up for 100%, while baseline, also effectively removes NG.

[Deleted]

SF/SnF dont snapshot

NG up for 100%, while baseline, also effectively removes NG.

Exactly, and while baseline, the only purpose would be to tap haste (like you suggested) and scale it with other secondary stats

[Cyous]

Exactly, and while baseline, the only purpose would be to tap haste (like you suggested) and scale it with other secondary stats

so...what benefit does that serve? baseline ng, with 100% and haste scaling with/without equinox? seems like it just removing a part of the spec which doesn't need major changes (talents are different ofc.)

[huth]

SF/SuF dont snapshot.

We have way to many abilities with the same acronyms.

[Deleted]

so...what benefit does that serve? baseline ng, with 100% and haste scaling with/without equinox? seems like it just removing a part of the spec which doesn't need major changes (talents are different ofc.)

There is no purpose for it not to be baseline if it's the road we choose for balancing out equinox, just creates extra headache for the two other (current) talents at level 100. Sunfall for example loses a lot of it's damage value if we leave the eclipse, but due to the model of the talent we also want to cycle eclipses as fast as possible for maximum benefit. This in turn requires us to be able to cycle a new eclipse in during the NG so that we don't lose the benefit of the haste for dots or post pone the next SF/SuF for no reason. Same applies to IS but with a different view point about the cycle.

[Magashi]

What about making natures grace give charges upon entering eclipse. So lets say we enter lunar. We would get X amount of charges for our starfire and including starsurge but not for wrath. For Dots they could scale the damage or breakpoint to compensate but not have the natures grace charges effect them so we dont have a reason to camp. then for equinox just grant more charges. Just an idea, feel free to give some criticism to that.

[Cyous]

We have way to many abilities with the same acronyms.

Need a roundtable to vote on acronym names...
sf/suf = starfall/sunfall
SF = Starfire
mf/snf = moonfire/sunfire
SS = Starsurge/Shooting Stars

[Aboubacar]

SuF was prievously used for sunfire, lets just spell it out... SS being shooting stars and starsurge won't work

[Cyous]

There is no purpose for it not to be baseline if it's the road we choose for balancing out equinox, just creates extra headache for the two other (current) talents at level 100. Sunfall for example loses a lot of it's damage value if we leave the eclipse, but due to the model of the talent we also want to cycle eclipses as fast as possible for maximum benefit. This in turn requires us to be able to cycle a new eclipse in during the NG so that we don't lose the benefit of the haste for dots or post pone the next SF/SuF for no reason. Same applies to IS but with a different view point about the cycle.

The current spellcasting system we have works fine without perma-NG. Sunfall and Starfall will never "not be Eclipsed." It takes longer than 10sec, in most cases, to push out of Eclipse. Even if you lose a single tick of Eclipsed damage, that's like... 20%-40% damage on the tick (2-4% overall). And if you're cycling that fast, you are getting more Starfall/Sunfall uses, which more than makes up for the non-Eclipsed tick. With Sunfall selected, you mash that button the moment it's up -- unless there are adds spawning before you hit Lunar Eclipse -- then you postpone Sunfall until the last second, or until adds spawn. IS will speed up the rotation slightly in single-target. In multi-DOT we'll be flying through Eclipse states. We'll more-than-likely lose a couple ticks, but the mere fact we're cycling faster means we get more Starfall uses overall.

What I'm trying to say is: Stop worring about Starfall ticks.

And still, if you make perma-NG baseline, regardless of Equinox, that effectively removes NG. That's not the goal. We're trying to make Equinox better--not NG better/worse.

Nature's Grace works as the "reason to cycle Eclipse." Starfall could have been if it simply lasted longer. If NG went 100% with Equinox ~ thus removing the penalties associated with the loss of NG uptime, you make Equinox more viable mechanically. You can tune the damage, but the gears still have to run smoothly.

- - - Updated - - -

SuF was prievously used for sunfire, lets just spell it out... SS being shooting stars and starsurge won't work

SS works for Shooting Stars and Starsurge because they are more-or-less the same thing.
"My SS hasn't proc'd in a while "
"SS crits are great."
"How many SS procs did you have?"

But yeah, small details, Who cares.