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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    Nope. I just want people to actually try before they cry about the system being against them. An actual effort instead of one feeble attempt at something and then a cry of, "Nope, too hard, I can't do that".



    I'm talking about intelligent effort. Learning from your past failures. If you failed at meshing with a group before, analyse why that might be and try to make adjustments and give it another go. These are basic fucking life skills. If you cannot manage to use them in a simple game, you are going to have a sorry ass time working your way through life.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I feel ya, but its probably not all kids. I know enough adults that have the same fucking attitude.
    Actually I meant that article, but this too a little. I think it's just how our culture has become

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Well yeah, most people DO have a sorry ass time working their way through life, "quiet desperation" and all that. You are assuming skills people do not have and find difficult to acquire.
    Why would you just be quietly desperate when you can put some fucking effort in and better your situation. There is always something you can do to better your situation, in a game or in life. People feel no responsibility for their own failure. "I failed. It must be the system's fault." Instead of, "I failed. I need to figure out what I did wrong and try again."

    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    This is you on another thread saying people who don't have gear should not even be pugged with. lolz.
    No that is me saying that I can see why people do high ilvl reqs on groups. It makes sense to as a group creator. There are still groups with lower reqs and also other ways to increase you ilvl outside of flex. There is always a way. If a wall gets put in front of you either figure a way around or climb the fuck over that wall. There is always another way. Other people can only slow you down. The only one that can stop you is you.
    Last edited by cabyio; 2014-04-29 at 07:26 PM.

  3. #263
    Bloodsail Admiral Transmigration's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Skye View Post
    It's like buying a gym membership, then complaining because you don't have time to use all the equipment and demand they give you some (I know this is apples and oranges, but it's the best example I could think of at the time of writing).
    Actually, it's more like paying for a gym membership, going for 2-3 hours per week or just standing around out front, and then getting mad at the owners and demand that they make you just as fit/strong as those that spend 2-3 hours per day exercising.

    I totally agree. I miss exclusivity too. There has only been maybe 1 year long period of my life where I was able to obtain items/cheeves/gear that would fall under that category, but I've never been mad that my life got in the way of me getting it later on.

    I'm also tired of this constant "balancing" to make every class the same just because Timmy is sad that his class isn't top dps or doesn't have every single spell everyone else has. I miss classes having a uniqueness to them, even it if made other classes jealous once in a while.

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    Why would you just be quitly desperate when you can put some fucking effort in and better your situation. There is always something you can do to better your situation, in a game or in life. People feel no responsibility for their own failure. "I failed. It must be the system's fault."
    This is true in areas where the outcome is a result of effort, but not in areas where the outcome is down to the choices of others. There are no efforts you can make which will get you into someone elses group in the ense you mean.

    Looks to me you are blaming people for things which are out of their hands, tbh.
    No that is me saying that I can see why people do high ilvl reqs on groups. It makes sense to as a group creator. There are still groups with lower reqs and also other ways to increase you ilvl outside of flex. There is always a way. If a wall gets put in front of you either figure a way around or climb the fuck over that wall. There is always another way. Other people can only slow you down. The only one that can stop you is you.
    Yeah and it makes sense to take longer term raiders who you won't have to teach anything as well. This isn't something you can beat by sheer effort.

    You are stopped by default, everything needs building and not everyone is a builder. Trust me, I know. I must have had several hundred guildies in my wow time and about 10 were half decent at raid leading and of those only half actually wanted to as well. And i'm not even any bloody good at the game.

  5. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    Why would you just be quietly desperate when you can put some fucking effort in and better your situation. There is always something you can do to better your situation, in a game or in life. People feel no responsibility for their own failure. "I failed. It must be the system's fault." Instead of, "I failed. I need to figure out what I did wrong and try again."
    I fully agree. This applies to life in every facet. If I wanted to have more time to game, I could get myself in to a position to to so. I spend most of my free time with my family now, but if I tried harder in life and had a job that worked me less hours and paid me more money, I'd have time for games too. I was just lazy and decided to work for someone else full time for an hourly wage like most shmos out there. That's not Blizzard's or the country's fault and I'm not mad.

  6. #266
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    Well I guess I am a selfish person and player for wanting my accomplishments to be visualy marked for other people to see. Just as selfish as the people who want what i achived without putting in the same ammount of effort. Entitlement goes both ways, I want the achivement to stand out as an achivement when it is relative and requires effort to obtain. Other people want it simply becuse they pay to play and feel they deserve it becuse they are throwing money at it.

    I really dont think it is a crime though to want to be distinguished in some way from the masses. something that someone I dont know can look at and see I am not the same as everyone else. Just as I display my achivements and accomplishments in work, school, and Tack and field tournaments, I want to display my accomplishments in wow so that people can see what I have achived. I take pride in everything I have done, degrees, academic excelence, honor societies, Track and field, and yes even killing the lich king when the content was relavent.

    Sure the game has no impact on my real life but it is still something I did and achived and like everything else, the pride and joy I feel with displaying y acomplishments is deminished when the achivement is devalued by handing it out to anyone who wants it in an effort to make them feel equal to the people that could do it without handouts or boosts.


  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    This is true in areas where the outcome is a result of effort, but not in areas where the outcome is down to the choices of others. There are no efforts you can make which will get you into someone elses group in the ense you mean.

    Looks to me you are blaming people for things which are out of their hands, tbh.


    Yeah and it makes sense to take longer term raiders who you won't have to teach anything as well. This isn't something you can beat by sheer effort.

    You are stopped by default, everything needs building and not everyone is a builder. Trust me, I know. I must have had several hundred guildies in my wow time and about 10 were half decent at raid leading and of those only half actually wanted to as well. And i'm not even any bloody good at the game.
    There is always another group. There is always another way. If you give up, the only thing the defeated you was your refusal to try again. Sorry but that is how I feel about life and that includes any game I play. If you are not going to do something with all your will and ability then it is not worth doing at all.

  8. #268
    People do what something for nothing now a days. It's more and more apparent as the kids grow up. Games get easier and the ones that want to remain tough die out as most of the hardcore crowd doesn't want to start over. I personally hate the fact that the heroic gear is nothing more then a recolor of the LFR gear. That's bs to me. Why put in the effort to get that gear when joe blow next to me looks the same just dyed a different color.

    I miss the days of exclusives and seeing people running around with TF and Atiesh. *Which btw seeing Atiesh even now is still pretty big considering a very large majority of them don't exsist anymore and are unobtainable*

  9. #269
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    There is always another group.
    No there ain't.
    There is always another way.
    No, there isn't.
    If you give up, the only thing the defeated you was your refusal to try again. Sorry but that is how I feel about life and that includes any game I play. If you are not going to do something with all your will and ability then it is not worth doing at all.
    You can feel that way all you like, but it's not how life is. Life is 95% failure, sorry bud.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    No there ain't.


    No, there isn't.


    You can feel that way all you like, but it's not how life is. Life is 95% failure, sorry bud.
    Obviously we are not going to get on the same page here. I feel sorry for people who just lay down and accept 95% failure, but if they do accept that then they have no right to cry about it.

  11. #271
    Bloodsail Admiral Lethey Alexandros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    No there ain't.


    No, there isn't.


    You can feel that way all you like, but it's not how life is. Life is 95% failure, sorry bud.
    A person who thinks like this is a person who has fully given up. If you can not be bothered to think of another way or find another group then you simply have neither will to move forward and or the drive to achive. Simply put you are already dead inside and just waiting for the clock to run out.

  12. #272
    I think it is actually a combination of points:

    1) Everyone that has bought the game should be ABLE to access the content (that means that 100% of people should be able to get through the entire game given enough effort)
    AND
    2) Everything should be handed to you just because you logged in.

    I would say only the vocal trolls really run away with number 2. However, I think the vast majority of people are in support of number 1. The problem really has more to do with the aging population in WoW. As WoW players get older, they lack the time commitment needed to grind the way they did before. They still want access to the content that they pay for while they maintain their actual lives.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Revi View Post
    I completely agree with you. The only reason I ever started raiding (in vanilla) was because of the people I saw in IF in full T2 and awesome weapons. The realm was very populated back then, but everyone knew their names and looked up to them, they were the closest thing you can get to a celebrity in WoW.

    There was no entitlement. Everyone understood that these guys were better than them, and that they had put in a lot of effort to get it, and we were perfectly happy grinding for epic mount and running UBRS in our blue gear while admiring the hell out of them whenever we saw them.

    It's like with gold IRL. The ONLY reason people want real gold jewelry is because gold is rare. If gold suddenly because extremely plentiful and cheap, no one would appreciate it the same way.
    Please, please speak for yourself. I failed to admire those people. It was even harder to admire them when it became known that many, many of the server first guilds went to beta to test, found the unreported bugs that made the game easier and then exploited the hell out of them instead of reporting them. Rather it was wall walking or using game items in unintended ways, the vast majority through out the years cheated their way to the top (with bans for some of them and almost bans for others).

    That being said, I really could care less about someone that makes an "achievement" in a video game. Normally, that is the person that fails to achieve anything outside of the video game (granted this is not always the case).

    Also, you can be the best gamer and player in the world and you still need to find 24 other players that are as good as you are to get anywhere. That is a big draw back in MMOs.
    "The round, metal cooking utensil referring to the larger, cookware customarily used for, but not limited to, stews, as being of a dark shade or possibly of African descent." ~~ Fixed for now. But keep in mind any one of the words used in that fix may become politically incorrect or offensive at any moment for any reason. Further amendments may be required to prevent frivolous lawsuits in the future.

  13. #273
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    This seems to be the last post on a page and deserves to be read, so BUMP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tycki View Post
    Perhaps it has something to do with the new 'wider appeal' demographic. The constant need for reward for even the most trivial things seems to play a role.

    Great article, thanks for posting.
    I would have missed this one if not for you quoting it, thank you. Such a great article.

  14. #274
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    Obviously we are not going to get on the same page here.
    Guess not.
    I feel sorry for people who just lay down and accept 95% failure, but if they do accept that then they have no right to cry about it.
    Funnily rnough, they don't actually moan much, they just give up. As blizzard wants their money, blizzard changes their approach to get it.

    But there is nothing blizzard can do aout the fundamental issue, which is the lack of raid leaders in the playerbase.

  15. #275
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivyr View Post
    Becuse that has everything to do with raiding..
    while I am at it, how about I link my holiday achivements, pvp achivements, and battle pet achivements too?
    So, in other words YOU are so single minded that exclusivity = raiding - he ( = op) wanted to be a special snowflake, he wants to archive something (alone) and for that type brawlers guild exists...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandapuncher View Post
    You should quit because you are wasting your money.
    No, you should cause you are unhappy with the game = YOU waste money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandapuncher View Post
    flex is faster than LFR, quicker to form than LFR, more fun than LFR. unless you think mindlessly slapping your keyboard is fun, idk
    that is YOUR opinion - in fact forming flex pre oqueue took waaaaaaaaaay longer and know what? you can do other stuff while queueing for lfr....

    Quote Originally Posted by ronocko View Post
    14 bosses in SoO you get 1 piece of loot or gold from every boss and while you can get very unlucky streaks of gold it is very very unlikely it'll take anyone longer than a month to gear a char.
    You dont know RNG do u? ^^

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandapuncher View Post
    Maybe I'm crazy, but how is standing in a spot, and doing your rotation... in the same spot. To complete the entire raid on the first day.
    Gotta love how people who have fucking zero clue about LFR bitch about it - lfr is ALLWAYS opened waaay after normal, and ALLWAYS in parts (ie SoO was Part 1 - 2 weeks later - Part 2 etc....)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gangplank View Post
    I'm very old-school WoW with the notion that you had to earn your loot by putting time into conquering difficult content. I do think you should be able to clearly distinguish players who have put time into difficult content vs players who have only done the bare minimum on the lowest content.
    mh.. did they kill archivements? no they didnt - and btw legendary qline is way better in lfr gear only :-P

    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    I would LOVE if they brought back all tiers being relevant. instead of just skipping into LFR you had to do the raids 1-2 tiers behind. That way you can gear up while actually raiding and not just do mindless lfr.
    And only guys with half a toon can think of this as a good idea.... tbc gating was the worst ever...

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Guess not.


    Funnily rnough, they don't actually moan much, they just give up. As blizzard wants their money, blizzard changes their approach to get it.

    But there is nothing blizzard can do aout the fundamental issue, which is the lack of raid leaders in the playerbase.
    Oh I fully understand that financially it makes sense for blizzard to do whatever it takes to keep as many people as possible. But that does not stop me from bemoaning the root cause of the required changes, the people.

  17. #277
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivyr View Post
    Becuse that has everything to do with raiding..
    while I am at it, how about I link my holiday achivements, pvp achivements, and battle pet achivements too?
    So, in other words YOU are so single minded that exclusivity = raiding - he ( = op) wanted to be a special snowflake, he wants to archive something (alone) and for that type brawlers guild exists...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandapuncher View Post
    You should quit because you are wasting your money.
    No, you should cause you are unhappy with the game = YOU waste money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandapuncher View Post
    flex is faster than LFR, quicker to form than LFR, more fun than LFR. unless you think mindlessly slapping your keyboard is fun, idk
    that is YOUR opinion - in fact forming flex pre oqueue took waaaaaaaaaay longer and know what? you can do other stuff while queueing for lfr....

    Quote Originally Posted by ronocko View Post
    14 bosses in SoO you get 1 piece of loot or gold from every boss and while you can get very unlucky streaks of gold it is very very unlikely it'll take anyone longer than a month to gear a char.
    You dont know RNG do u? ^^

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandapuncher View Post
    Maybe I'm crazy, but how is standing in a spot, and doing your rotation... in the same spot. To complete the entire raid on the first day.
    Gotta love how people who have fucking zero clue about LFR bitch about it - lfr is ALLWAYS opened waaay after normal, and ALLWAYS in parts (ie SoO was Part 1 - 2 weeks later - Part 2 etc....)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gangplank View Post
    I'm very old-school WoW with the notion that you had to earn your loot by putting time into conquering difficult content. I do think you should be able to clearly distinguish players who have put time into difficult content vs players who have only done the bare minimum on the lowest content.
    mh.. did they kill archivements? no they didnt - and btw legendary qline is way better in lfr gear only :-P

    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    I would LOVE if they brought back all tiers being relevant. instead of just skipping into LFR you had to do the raids 1-2 tiers behind. That way you can gear up while actually raiding and not just do mindless lfr.
    And only guys with half a toon can think of this as a good idea.... tbc gating was the worst ever...

  18. #278
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    Oh I fully understand that financially it makes sense for blizzard to do whatever it takes to keep as many people as possible. But that does not stop me from bemoaning the root cause of the required changes, the people.
    The root cause is blizzards design, not the people.

    A genuine system of effort would see HC raid equivalent gear available at the end of some scary ass farm session, or incredibly lengthy and tightly tuned solo quest series or some such. But instead blizzard chooses to gate their content behind player side issues and only gives the best stuff out in a very hard to organise format that requires out of game co ordination..

    I find it a bit weird that they leave the basic success of their game in the hands of a legion of untrained volunteers who are often as not terrible at the job, but here we are.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Funnily rnough, they don't actually moan much, they just give up. As blizzard wants their money, blizzard changes their approach to get it.
    It's all the fault of the hardcores, you see. They just suck at being sufficiently lucrative. Total failboats, they are.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
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    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Tycki View Post
    Perhaps it has something to do with the new 'wider appeal' demographic. The constant need for reward for even the most trivial things seems to play a role.


    I can quite honestly say, I don't agree with any of that. Not all American players think they way this guy thinks we do. In fact, there are no doubt plenty of people all over the world that think this way- not just America side. He's basically generalizing.

    For example:

    I have never expected things to just be handed to me. I have never expected the game to be easier- just for my old ass (okay, I'm almost 40, not that old, but still) just because I have outside commitments. Round about 10 years ago (or close to it), I had a bit more time to devote to gaming. Around the time BC came out, that completely changed- I started working shift work. Do you know what a pain in the arse it is to get a raiding group together at 7 in the morning on a US server? Impossible.

    Did I go to the forums begging Blizzard to make it easier on me to get into raids? No. Come to think about it, I don't recall more than one serious post on the matter of an "easy mode" raid.

    But, on that same note, I've also come to terms that the world has moved on. Just because YOU can't move on with it doesn't mean the game should just stay one way.
    WoW was originally advertized as a game for everyone. It was never meant to be a hardcore game.


    I swear, Bliz ought to- just for one expac (since we're lab rats anyways)- make it to where raid tier has one item level for an entire expac. Make things based on actual skill rather than just gear and skill. So one ilvl for LFR players (700), one for normal moders (705), and one for heroic raiders (710). And then make heroic mode absolutely hard- hard enough to where the only people that are getting through them are the best of the best.

    I bet you guys would be here crying about it because "It's too hard."
    Last edited by taheen74; 2014-04-29 at 11:25 PM.
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