Did i do something wrong in calling out a raid member?

[Santoryu]

I love it how people believe a casual guild shouldn't expect people to play their class properly and that it's somehow reserved for "hard core" guilds. There is nothing hard core about playing your class the right way and not dragging others down with you.

[Theholypally]

amateur sport team usually dont have a bench of 5 people , constant evaluation of performance of their memebrs and arent constantly looking for new players to replace those ones who realise that they cba to deal with no life morons who treat this sports team as their life goal only as 1-2/week activity to have fun and stay healthy after posibly siting 8 hours/day in office at desk. constructive cirticism is good but i doubt many people would last for long in team where pimple teenager would contstantly call them out for not playing liek they should be - irl such person would be probably nicely but firmly said "dont come back next week if u have to behave like shit" - amateur sports team usually value beer after game with friends more then game itself.

if u like sports comparisons look at San Marino footbal representation - its filled with people for whom football is after work activity (i belive they have lawyer, hairdresser and other normal job people) they go to each world championships without a chance to win a single game yet it gives them happines and makes them proud that they can play - this is what i would define as "Casual" approach.

OP has started in his first post with "We are a semi casual guild " - not with we are semi hardcore or we are hardcore guild - if u join a guild which defines its progress as casual then u should have casual aproach to shit - if he wants hardcore he can join one of thousand guilds which defiene themselves as hardcore.

Resorting to name calling is precisely why criticism is needed. I don't want people like you on my raid team. I don't want someone who immediately shouts that the person who called them out has no life, is a virgin, or lives in mommies basement. The reality of it is: they are better prepared, manage their family and work days better, and are generally more respectful of the fact there are 24 other people (or 9 other people) in your group that will be waiting on them to get in gear.

You can call better prepared, respectful guild and raid members whatever you'd like in order to value your choice of not giving a crap...just know that many guilds will never accept you into a raiding team with that attitude.

Almost every "casual" guild has standards for behavior and raiding etiquette. I raided with a casual guild in cataclysm. One night a week (on sundays) we raided firelands. We were 6/7 heroic and better than most 2-4 day a week raiding guilds. Why? we weren't stellar players. We were an average group of friends who wanted to raid, so why were we so successful for a one day a week casual guild? Because we actually gave a crap about the time we had in the instance.

If you want to raid, in any guild that wants to actually progress, you will see criticism...yes, even casual guilds.

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I love it how people believe a casual guild shouldn't expect people to play their class properly and that it's somehow reserved for "hard core" guilds. There is nothing hard core about playing your class the right way and not dragging others down with you.

I don't think i could have said it better.

[icausewipes]

TLDR Silly wipes, Angry raider calls someone out feels kinda bad about it. Your 2 cents.

Walk away and don't look back. I used to raid with a group of "nice" guys that would spend hours wiping on bs and it would drive me nuts. One nite I just had enough and /gquit after the raid was over.



4th best decision I ever made.

[kamuimac]

I love it how people believe a casual guild shouldn't expect people to play their class properly and that it's somehow reserved for "hard core" guilds. There is nothing hard core about playing your class the right way and not dragging others down with you.

there is differnece between should expect and require 100 % of time - everybody has weaker night once in a while - u cant really separate rl problems which may occure from time to time making somebody who always perform exelent to perform like shit - we dont know this players we dont have logs to check all we have is OPs word for it- this are forums and eveyrone can write anything here claim how amazing he is etc etc but unless he has logs to prove it then i would never trust nayone 100% on it - and you are right i wouldnt want to be in a guild which require me to perform on 100% all the time - thats why im happy
in the guild i am with decent hc progress and absolutely no pressure to clear hwole tier - guild where i can just take a break come back and spot will be waiitng for me cause the base of it is raiidng and even wiping with friends not progress progress progress //shrug and if it was that FoS and mount i was only raiding for ... anyone could have bought those months ago with how easy to make is gold if u only play and dont buy to much vanity items.

[Deleted]

That's all you needed to say. Yes, it's not your job to tell him he messed up. There is a proper method in life for giving criticism it's applicable in real life as well. You have several options 1) tell your supervisor (raid leader, officer) behind closed doors that you have concerns with another guy's performance. Bringing up stuff in public as you did makes you look like an asshole who oversteps his position. 2) You can suggest to the guys who suck to talk to the guy who doesn't suck in private. Once again no one likes being made look like an asshat in public. 3) If you go through the proper channels and nothing happens I would suggest looking for a new job or guild.

Sounds like words from someone who thinks raiding guilds work the same as workplaces.

[Deleted]

simply put..youre not an officer/raid leader, so stfu.

[Deleted]

I love it how people believe a casual guild shouldn't expect people to play their class properly and that it's somehow reserved for "hard core" guilds. There is nothing hard core about playing your class the right way and not dragging others down with you.

But then someone comes with "but they are so nice and try so hard...".

[Deleted]

"Good for them" what a shitty response. Cmon if you are raiding with 9-24 other people and you are bad and slacking you are basicly wasting other people time. If you dont have will to learn you should gtfo. And it doesn't matter if "I am having fun, don't tell me how to play" no, you are wasting other people time and it's time for you to step up or not join raids. Simple as that.

[Jester Joe]

simply put..youre not an officer/raid leader, so stfu.

That's a silly response in my opinion, just because you're not an officer means your opinion is suddenly nullified? Or you should always have to go through the raid leader? I don't think it's a great idea to always make the raid leader the scapegoat for blame, and sometimes they're just too busy to realize little details.

[Kyr]

A bit about me first, Im not an officer in my guild but....

could have stopped reading right there, the answer is yes you did do something wrong. if you are not an officer you absolutely should not be calling anyone out. if you see something that needs to be addressed bring it to an officer so they can deal with it in their way, kind of their job as officers. I was an officer in a guild for years, and trust me I saw just about every scenario that could possibly cause drama in a raid. not once did I see a positive outcome when some random raider goes off and bad mouths another class publicly during raid. it does not matter if that raider has been around forever and is "someone whose opinion could be trusted". you are not an officer, so you keep your mouth shut and go through your officers to try and help the raid.

[Deleted]

could have stopped reading right there, the answer is yes you did do something wrong. if you are not an officer you absolutely should not be calling anyone out. if you see something that needs to be addressed bring it to an officer so they can deal with it in their way, kind of their job as officers. I was an officer in a guild for years, and trust me I saw just about every scenario that could possibly cause drama in a raid. not once did I see a positive outcome when some random raider goes off and bad mouths another class publicly during raid. it does not matter if that raider has been around forever and is "someone whose opinion could be trusted". you are not an officer, so you keep your mouth shut and go through your officers to try and help the raid.

What kind of nazi guild is that. If officers don't do shit about bad people then it's about time to speak your voice. Plus pretty much every guild I was in everyone could voice their opinion at any given time. It saved us from drama building up compared to guilds that you need to "shut the fuck up".

[Kyr]

What kind of nazi guild is that. If officers don't do shit about bad people then it's about time to speak your voice. Plus pretty much every guild I was in everyone could voice their opinion at any given time. It saved us from drama building up compared to guilds that you need to "shut the fuck up".

nazi? really? if officers don't do shit about bad people then you aren't going to progress anyway. but either way it is their job to do something about it.

[Meillquei]

There is a right way to call out someone, and there is also a wrong way to call out someone. OP, you chose the wrong way to call out someone.
Verbally berating and yelling at people doesn't accomplish anything. Instead of doing that, talk to this person in whispers. Give them some constructive criticism on what they could be doing better.
If that person doesn't improve after, then talk to the officers about that person.
There is also nothing wrong with wanting others to perform at 100%. Keep in mind that not everyone feels the same way as you do though. Since you aren't in a hardcore guild, you can't expect everyone to share your view.

[Illana]

Let's think about this in a different way:

you're in the office and you see someone who's not doing as much work as they should be.

do you:

A- call him out in front of the whole office , embarassing him, yourself and everyone there.
B- talk to him privately and see if you can sort it out yourself, most likely won't achieve anything since you're not his boss.
C- talk to your boss, he controls if that guy gets to keep his job or not so much more likely to listen.

[Santoryu]

But then someone comes with "but they are so nice and try so hard...".

That's just the bleeding hearts

[Lovecrafts]

This thread is a prime reason why I love LFR so much, I can just close out the LFR chat and never have to put up with a person like OP and all the drama he brings. Honestly, calling people out over a video game, it's sad to even think about.

[Deleted]

This thread is a prime reason why I love LFR so much, I can just close out the LFR chat and never have to put up with a person like OP and all the drama he brings. Honestly, calling people out over a video game, it's sad to even think about.

Thanks for your opinion i guess. But if you have read the thread you would i have seen this is the first time i have ever done something like this and because of that it actually prompted me to make a post about it for advice. Also wow is built of lots of players. I would never shout/yell/swear in lfr there isnt a point. Those players mostly play for fun and it would fall on deaf ears mostly. But something you prob dont get is that in guild you try and play the best you can not just for yourself but for the team. Sure i handled it wrong but i dont see why the notion of self improvement even in a video game is "Sad".
Also in any team sport you are only as strong as your weakest player and we are there to help each other. I wasnt so mad in his dps it was more that he had a i dont give a fuck attitude.

[theburned]

Normal way to deal with this is to whisper the raid leader and if they don't reply or don't say anything, ask them after the raid. Was the way it always happened when I raid lead and I took a lot of my tips from one of my old raid leaders and that always worked pretty well too.

Should go to the person first though, if they knock it off with a smart ass response as "good for them" you go to the raid leader and tell him about it.


Also you are not really in the wrong (even though you could've approached it in a different manner) as you are spending YOUR time raiding with them if you are getting less enjoyment out of that time due to a player being lazy and/or dps whoring the boss.

- - - Updated - - -

Normal way to deal with this is to whisper the raid leader and if they don't reply or don't say anything, ask them after the raid. Was the way it always happened when I raid lead and I took a lot of my tips from one of my old raid leaders and that always worked pretty well too.

Should go to the person first though, if they knock it off with a smart ass response as "good for them" you go to the raid leader and tell him about it.


Also you are not really in the wrong (even though you could've approached it in a different manner) as you are spending YOUR time raiding with them if you are getting less enjoyment out of that time due to a player being lazy and/or dps whoring the boss.

[Theholypally]

Let's think about this in a different way:

you're in the office and you see someone who's not doing as much work as they should be.

do you:

A- call him out in front of the whole office , embarassing him, yourself and everyone there.
B- talk to him privately and see if you can sort it out yourself, most likely won't achieve anything since you're not his boss.
C- talk to your boss, he controls if that guy gets to keep his job or not so much more likely to listen.

Considering this is nothing like an office job, i choose D (neither).

[Illana]

Considering this is nothing like an office job, i choose D (neither).

If someone is wasting peoples time, and the officers don't do anything about it, someone should step up and mention it. It doesn't matter if its an officer or not, what matters is the manner in which it is brought up. If the person has a smart ass remark to being called out (because he thought people wouldn't notice or care) now it's out in the open and the officers and the rest of the raid can't ignore it.

You assume that just because it's not an officer, or a "boss" that the other person isn't obligated to fix what he or she is doing. In fact, barring a mistaken accusation, you both are wrong. You aren't his boss, you are his teammate. If he is screwing up, you tell him and you should expect the same thing from him if you mess up. You don't run to someone else and wait to see if something is done. When you have enough information, step up and call them on it.

That works if you have a good relationship, judging by the guys response they don't really know each other and the interaction wasn't appropriate.

And I know this is nothing like an office job, but you know what is exactly the same? Human relationships. People seem to forget that they are interacting with REAL people when they are on the internet and all sorts of things that they would never do in real life seem to come to fruition here.