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  1. #61
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtstormrage View Post
    Right wing. Prudent economic policies.
    Sorry, what?

    Most of the USA wasn't alive the last time there was a balanced budget.

    And the Conservatives up here were running a deficit within a year of getting into office and before the economy went screwy and are now "balancing" it by downloading costs to the provinces and selling crown assets.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Tayler
    Political conservatism is just atavism with extra syllables and a necktie.
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  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    I don't know why people keep saying McCain or Romney are Moderate.

    Hell, the last video of McCain saying they should get rid of the Arizona law allowing discrimination against Homosexuals had him saying everything from "Causes a bad economy" to "reduces tourism appeal" and everything EXCEPT saying it's flat out morally wrong. As if the potential tourism prospects and income were more important than flat-out discrimination against gay couples.
    McCain's kind of gone off the deep end since 2008, and you also have to remember that he has to appease his base. If you're going to say discriminating homosexuals is wrong to a bunch of hardcore republicans in Arizona is it better to say that homosexuality is not wrong in any sense, or that discriminating against them is bad for small business?

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There's a difference between "moderate for a Republican" and "moderate".

    Obama's a moderate conservative, though he's been leaning slightly more left the last few months or so than he has been during the rest of his Presidency. The Republicans are a far-right party, however, so a "moderate" from their point of view is still far-right.

    And really, the issue with McCain and Romney wasn't their politics. With McCain, it's that he picked Palin of all people as his running mate. Even at the time, it quickly became apparent how little vetting they'd done, and that spoke to his campaign's capabilities, to his detriment. With Romney, it's that he tried to be everything to everyone, and exposed that he stood for nothing, for no one. There's conservative right-wing candidates who have a shot. I liked Huntsman, during the last election's primaries. Still do, though he got pruned REALLY early. Gary Johnson's Libertarian, but I think he's a decent bloke. The issue isn't conservatives, or even Republicans, it's the base they've decided to appeal to. They're following their base, rather than leading them, and that's a serious problem.
    it all depends where in the political speculum your standing at. it is all about perception. it varies from place to place and from one time frame to another there is no fixed center

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I liked Huntsman, during the last election's primaries. Still do, though he got pruned REALLY early. Gary Johnson's Libertarian, but I think he's a decent bloke. The issue isn't conservatives, or even Republicans, it's the base they've decided to appeal to. They're following their base, rather than leading them, and that's a serious problem.
    Huntsman was great, had as much chance as a snowball in hell though.

  5. #65
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtstormrage View Post
    Left wing. Great social policies. Terrible economic policies. Result: happy people but the economy is broke at the end of the term.
    The left wing has always had better economic policies. They don't subscribe to bullshit like trickle down economics.

    For instance, Australia's practical immunity from the recent recession was owed almost entirely to its last left-wing government.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Not voting would have had the same impact since I still wouldn't have contributed to either candidate with an actual chance of winning.
    And if you didn't vote, your choice in that would've been backed by a completely different attitude - and that attitude on the forums would probably be different than what you have here now - and would potentially influence the apathy of a handful of independents considering to choose not-voting.

    I believe there's more to a vote than the actual physical act of casting of a ballot and having it counted, my friend. ^_^

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    I keep telling everyone they should make me president of America. Or like, the world. Would be hella dope. I'd do well good.
    You have my vote. I have no doubt you would do better then most.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The issue isn't conservatives, or even Republicans, it's the base they've decided to appeal to. They're following their base, rather than leading them, and that's a serious problem.
    This is the real issue, and unfortunately I think Republicans have confuse their base with the people who make the most noise. The Republican party is much bigger than the tea party. I wish the more reasonable Republicans would be a bit more bold so something at least resembling an intellectual political dialogue could be reached.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by jtstormrage View Post
    Left wing. Great social policies. Terrible economic policies. Result: happy people but the economy is broke at the end of the term.

    Right wing. Mean social policies. Prudent economic policies. Result: left wing's debt paid off but at a social cost.

    Voting patterns: Left - Right - Left - Right - Left - Right - Left - Right - Left - Right.

    The cycle goes on. Same in almost every country. And people are too stupid to see past the next government.
    not quit it went Right-Right once in the last 50 years and that was because then exiting president Reagan had over 60% approval rating when he left office

  10. #70
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtstormrage View Post
    Left wing. Great social policies. Terrible economic policies. Result: happy people but the economy is broke at the end of the term.

    Right wing. Mean social policies. Prudent economic policies. Result: left wing's debt paid off but at a social cost.
    Could the conservatives please drop this talking point? The Republicans have not been fiscal conservatives for decades;



    See the red sections? Those are Republican presidencies. See how, post-Ford, every Republican presidency has seen an increase in debt as a percentage of GDP? See how the Democrats typically show a reduction of the same ratio? The Democrats have been the fiscal conservatives for decades, not the Republicans. If you look at the actual data, rather than believing the promises they inevitably break.

    The only exceptions to that were FDR/Truman, who were dealing with WW2 and it's aftermath, and Obama, but you can see even here that the rate of growth is tapering off with Obama, and the reason for that growth was the massively spiking debt ratio and collapsing economy.his administration was handed by G.W. Bush.


  11. #71
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    not quit it went Right-Right once in the last 50 years and that was because then exiting president Reagan had over 60% approval rating when he left office
    Otherwise known as the day Americans got stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  12. #72
    Too bad there's so much resistance to doing away with the all or nothing electoral vote system. Maybe we'd actually have a president who was voted into office BY the PEOPLE. How many presidents lost the popular vote but were put into office. How many won the popular vote but lost the presidency? That's why our votes don't really matter. If a state is divided 50/50 then half the available votes should go to each candidate. Or 20/80, 70/30...whatever it is.

    If I recall - Obama BARELY won the popular vote but killed Romney in a landslide on the electoral college. The true voting system wouldn't have changed things but at least then we wouldn't have to hear Obama say how "America" voted him back in. Sorry dickfuck - Almost half of America didn't want your dumbass in office. The US is a republic not a democracy. Under a republic, the majority cannot rule a minority and impose their decisions on them.

    Look at it this way. Under a truly fair voting system - Gore would have won in 2000 and we never would have been subjected to all that was Bush 2.0 since Gore beat Bush in the popular vote. I'd like to see poll results with a fairly elected president after several terms of presidents.

    I bet Obama thanks God every night for the natural disaster that befell the east coast during the campaigning. It allowed him to go around being all presidential and kissing babies, promising the world to those people while Romney couldn't continue campaigning out of respect for the folks affected by the disaster. Without the hurricane, its likely Obama would have lost. That is if the electoral college didn't fuck it up.
    Last edited by Cerus; 2014-04-29 at 04:40 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lansworthy
    Deathwing will come and go RAWR RAWR IM A DWAGON
    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyCasual View Post
    There's no point in saying this, even if you slap them upside down and inside out with the truth, the tin foil hat brigade will continue to believe the opposite.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by diddle View Post
    McCain's kind of gone off the deep end since 2008, and you also have to remember that he has to appease his base. If you're going to say discriminating homosexuals is wrong to a bunch of hardcore republicans in Arizona is it better to say that homosexuality is not wrong in any sense, or that discriminating against them is bad for small business?
    No, he doesn't have to appease his base if he finds their wants morally wrong. If you find your base morally wrong you LEAVE that base and find a new one.

    Yes, it's easier said than done and risks career ramifications. And to that I say "So what!? You don't take a job as a politician to be good for ONLY YOU!" That's the difference as to what makes a good politician: those who do what the base wants vs doing the morally RIGHT thing they believe in that's good for the people. If you're suggesting he's doing this to please his voters but doesn't believe in these policies himself - then he should walk away from that base and let somebody else lead them, and go represent somebody who's values match his own.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    I don't know why people keep saying McCain or Romney are Moderate.

    Hell, the last video of McCain saying they should get rid of the Arizona law allowing discrimination against Homosexuals had him saying everything from "Causes a bad economy" to "reduces tourism appeal" and everything EXCEPT saying it's flat out morally wrong. As if the potential tourism prospects and income were more important than flat-out discrimination against gay couples.
    Moderate, the overused and misunderstood term, I wish it would be axed from political jargon. >.<

    Technically both candidates follow the Neoconservative train of thought. This is in stark contrast with Paleoconservatism (Pat Buchanan, Ted Cruz, Mike Lee) and Libertarianism (Ron Paul, Rand Paul).

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    not quit it went Right-Right once in the last 50 years and that was because then exiting president Reagan had over 60% approval rating when he left office
    Ronald Reagan, notable debt-creator.

  16. #76
    Banned Orlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fexus View Post
    Exactly. Both John McCain and Mitt Romney were very moderate Republicans before they ran for president. Unfortunately to win Republican primaries implicit bigotry towards minorities and the poor are expected.
    They were just democrats with an R next to their name. Thats why they didnt get support. And the Republican candidates that we are expecting this time around are no better. They are pushing for amnesty for illegal aliens instead of deportation, raising minimum wage, and continuing to increase the national debt, and that wont get them elected either.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Could the conservatives please drop this talking point? The Republicans have not been fiscal conservatives for decades;



    See the red sections? Those are Republican presidencies. See how, post-Ford, every Republican presidency has seen an increase in debt as a percentage of GDP? See how the Democrats typically show a reduction of the same ratio? The Democrats have been the fiscal conservatives for decades, not the Republicans. If you look at the actual data, rather than believing the promises they inevitably break.

    The only exceptions to that were FDR/Truman, who were dealing with WW2 and it's aftermath, and Obama, but you can see even here that the rate of growth is tapering off with Obama, and the reason for that growth was the massively spiking debt ratio and collapsing economy.his administration was handed by G.W. Bush.
    then along comes Obama and blows it all out of the water with the sharpest increase and amount since FDR
    and don't try to blame it on Bush because then you would have to allow every other president to lay blame on the previous administration
    hence Reagans increased was Carters fault
    Last edited by Vyxn; 2014-04-29 at 04:43 PM.

  18. #78
    Banned Orlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazen View Post
    best thing can happen to the Democrats is GOP wins Senate and retains House. That way, in 2016, they'll roll the Presidency and probably the House and Senate....give the GOP 2 years of House/Senate control, with Obama veto...and you'll see the GOP shoot self repeatedly.
    Hopefully they win so many seats that they have enough votes to override vetoes

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    then along comes Obama and blows it all out of the water with sharpest increase and amount since FDR
    I'm going to assume your parents pay all your bills.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    They were just democrats with an R next to their name. Thats why they didnt get support. And the Republican candidates that we are expecting this time around are no better. They are pushing for amnesty for illegal aliens instead of deportation, raising minimum wage, and continuing to increase the national debt, and that wont get them elected either.
    So splintering of families, unlivable worker wages, and unnecessary economic crises are positions that will help a candidate get elected?

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