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  1. #81
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    it all depends where in the political speculum your standing at.
    Best.

    Freudian slip.

    Ever.


    Also, no. You're wrong. The political left/right axis isn't a relative one, it's absolute. It isn't "left or right of the midpoint between the parties". Left/right refers to the seating in the French parliament; pro-aristocracy conservatives sat on the right, pro-liberty liberals sat on the left.
    Last edited by Endus; 2014-04-29 at 04:45 PM.


  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Could the conservatives please drop this talking point? The Republicans have not been fiscal conservatives for decades;



    See the red sections? Those are Republican presidencies. See how, post-Ford, every Republican presidency has seen an increase in debt as a percentage of GDP? See how the Democrats typically show a reduction of the same ratio? The Democrats have been the fiscal conservatives for decades, not the Republicans. If you look at the actual data, rather than believing the promises they inevitably break.

    The only exceptions to that were FDR/Truman, who were dealing with WW2 and it's aftermath, and Obama, but you can see even here that the rate of growth is tapering off with Obama, and the reason for that growth was the massively spiking debt ratio and collapsing economy.his administration was handed by G.W. Bush.
    That's one of the things I keep saying that conservatives don't want to hear: The debt that was tacked on was from the bailout - and had John McCain won in 2008 the only difference was that those same bars would be red. Though I do believe they'd be even higher due to McCain most likely not pulling out of Iraq, likewise probably not focusing on Afghanistan either since we'd be fighting a two-front war thus Osama probably wouldn't have been killed either.

    By that time the stress would kill McCain and we would've had Sarah Palin... dear God...

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    then along comes Obama and blows it all out of the water with the sharpest increase and amount since FDR
    and don't try to blame it on Bush because then you would have to allow every other president to lay blame on the previous administration
    hence Reagans increased was Carters fault
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financi...007%E2%80%9308

    Believe it or not, this was a pretty big deal.

  4. #84
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    then along comes Obama and blows it all out of the water with sharpest increase and amount since FDR
    ad don't try to blame it on Bush because then you would have to allow every other president to lay blame on the previous administration
    hence Reagans increased was Carters fault
    Actually, no. If you'd bother studying history you'd understand that Reagan's increase was directly attributable in the form of a massive spending hike (mainly on the military) and tax cuts. Obama's hike is owed to two wars started by the previous President on top of a recession, combined with Bush's tax cuts.

    The paradigm still holds. Democrats are better at balancing the books than Republicans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    They were just democrats with an R next to their name. Thats why they didnt get support. And the Republican candidates that we are expecting this time around are no better. They are pushing for amnesty for illegal aliens instead of deportation, raising minimum wage, and continuing to increase the national debt, and that wont get them elected either.
    because before it was such a winning strategy wasn't it? this isn't for the legislature where gerrymandering will get you seats.

  6. #86
    The Lightbringer Daws001's Avatar
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    Why should Obama care about polls at this point? It's his final term, he doesn't have to worry about reelection, he's set for life...no worries mate.

  7. #87
    I think both Democrats and Republicans are both the wrong choice for any office. Either way you go you're going to get a corrupt slime ball that is only in it for thier own agenda. At the end of the day our taxes go to paying a greedy prick that sits in a chair all day and does the bidding of whoever slips them enough money under the table. They can say they are Democrat or Republican but they won't vote like one if payed off enough. The entire idea of a two party system is BS they shovel down your throat. In reality it's all about the all mighty dollar. None of the men or women in the senate, congress, supreme court, or even sitting smug on the presedent chair are there to do YOU any good unless you can afford to pay them enough money. The reality is that our government is a corrupt pile of festering infection that is slowly killing america with thier greed and stupidity. Regardless what the polls say, no matter who america votes for we lose.

  8. #88
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    Hopefully they win so many seats that they have enough votes to override vetoes
    This rarely happens and is not likely to. The most generous predictions indicate a six seat pickup for the Republicans - enough for a majority but nowhere near a supermajority. More than likely the Democrats will retain control, but marginally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  9. #89
    I think the big issue is that people actually think something will change with a Republican in office. Look at the ones that would even remotely have a chance, Christie...a repub?...please. Way more has to change to fix the country than the one main seat. Both parties have major issues and its all one big dick measuring contests with the citizens being the balls dangling around slapping into the taint.

  10. #90
    Banned Orlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post


    ...were you even conscious during 2007? o_O

    ...left wing's debt!?! LEFT WING'S DEBT!?! Clinton had a surplus
    UNless the national debt is payed off, there is NO surplus. IN addition the so called surplus was just for the federal budget, and the whole thing was a scam. There was NO surplus. http://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/16

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Best.

    Freudian slip.

    Ever.


    Also, no. You're wrong. The political left/right axis isn't a relative one, it's absolute. It isn't "left or right of the midpoint between the parties". Left/right refers to the seating in the French parliament; pro-aristocracy conservatives sat on the right, pro-liberty liberals sat on the left.
    ...and it's likewise probably the best autocorrect screw-up ever seen on these forums. ^_^

  12. #92
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    They were just democrats with an R next to their name. Thats why they didnt get support. And the Republican candidates that we are expecting this time around are no better. They are pushing for amnesty for illegal aliens instead of deportation, raising minimum wage, and continuing to increase the national debt, and that wont get them elected either.
    So the answer to an election in which candidates that were too conservative didn't win is to go even more to the right.

    How very astute of you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerus View Post
    I bet Obama thanks God every night for the natural disaster that befell the east coast during the campaigning.
    Really? I mean really?

  14. #94
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    UNless the national debt is payed off, there is NO surplus. IN addition the so called surplus was just for the federal budget, and the whole thing was a scam. There was NO surplus. http://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/16
    Please look up the definition of a surplus. The debt may have not been paid off, but the govermnent was still taking in more than it was spending (why this is considered a good thing, I don't know).
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  15. #95
    Scarab Lord Naxere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Actually, no. If you'd bother studying history you'd understand that Reagan's increase was directly attributable in the form of a massive spending hike (mainly on the military) and tax cuts. Obama's hike is owed to two wars started by the previous President on top of a recession, combined with Bush's tax cuts.

    The paradigm still holds. Democrats are better at balancing the books than Republicans.
    Nevermind the fact that Reagan won the Cold War and brought about the end of the USSR. He spent too much!

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    UNless the national debt is payed off, there is NO surplus. IN addition the so called surplus was just for the federal budget, and the whole thing was a scam. There was NO surplus. http://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/16
    Oh god - a conspiracy theory that Clinton's surplus wasn't a surplus.

    You damn well know what I meant - cash on HAND and debt reduction. Not wide-net portfolio wise. NOBODY was saying the debt was wiped out by Clinton. What we were saying was that it was on the ROAD to being wiped out... until you elected Bush Junior, of course... thanks for that BTW.

  17. #97
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naxere View Post
    Nevermind the fact that Reagan won the Cold War and brought about the end of the USSR. He spent too much!
    Doesn't mean Reagan didn't do bad things.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    No, he doesn't have to appease his base if he finds their wants morally wrong. If you find your base morally wrong you LEAVE that base and find a new one.

    Yes, it's easier said than done and risks career ramifications. And to that I say "So what!? You don't take a job as a politician to be good for ONLY YOU!" That's the difference as to what makes a good politician: those who do what the base wants vs doing the morally RIGHT thing they believe in that's good for the people. If you're suggesting he's doing this to please his voters but doesn't believe in these policies himself - then he should walk away from that base and let somebody else lead them, and go represent somebody who's values match his own.
    Idealism like that is why John Huntsman never stood a chance. I agree with you, but it doesn't change the sad state of American politics.

  19. #99
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    UNless the national debt is payed off, there is NO surplus.
    You appear to be misunderstanding what a surplus is. A surplus simply means you have more revenue than expenses in the current fiscal year. It has nothing to do with how much debt there is.

    Though I agree that Clinton didn't quite have a surplus, though his policies would have resulted in one after a couple more years.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
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  20. #100
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naxere View Post
    Nevermind the fact that Reagan won the Cold War and brought about the end of the USSR. He spent too much!
    The problem is not spending. The problem is increasing spending while cutting taxes; a mistake that Bush Jr. also made.

    And I would argue that the Soviet Union was in a state of decay regardless of Reagan did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

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