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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    Your entire thought process appears to be predicated on the store's own employees being a major source of product/service demand.
    It is at my store at least. I work at a pizza place, where the manager is living by the monthly paycheck. Us min wage workers make the pizzas (and all the other food for that matter), wait the tables and deliver the pizzas, not to mention clean the restaurant. Ask my manager how much would get done around there without any minimum wage workers, without forcing all 4 managers to be working 85 hours a week.
    “Humanism means that the man is the measure of all things...But it is not only that man must start from himself in the area of knowledge and learning, but any value system must come arbitrarily from man himself by arbitrary choice.” - Francis A. Schaeffer

  2. #222
    Scarab Lord Teebone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ave07 View Post
    The only people who make minimum wage where I live are those who work at McDonalds or Walmart, otherwise almost every job pays $10 and up here even construction.

    The rent here is ridiculously high here so I can't imagine how people live off those jobs unless they live at home or with multiple roomates.

    Or mutilple jobs. I have a friend who works two full time jobs to support his family. He does not live well. Hell, I'm not even sure how he's even still alive...

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by spinner981 View Post
    So work and make money. Not making enough money? Work more. That's how the world... well... works.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The more important part was 'tries harder'. Stop taking posts out of context. Also, I never said that going to school would magically create jobs (although it probably would create more teaching jobs at the very least). I said that if everyone went to school and everyone tried harder, then this country would be a better place. Stop putting words into my mouth.
    I think the important point they were trying to make is that there are ALWAYS going to be entry-level jobs, unskilled labor, etc. There will ALWAYS (until cheap robot labor, one supposes) be a need for people to fill those positions. Every time someone gets promoted, gets new skills that earn them a better job, etc, they leave behind a position that still needs to be filled. But fuck the new guy for not having the skills and/or experience to get a better job in the first place.

    Those jobs will ALWAYS be there. We're just trying to say that since we need people for said jobs, and there will always be people working in said jobs, that maybe said jobs shouldn't suck so much.

  4. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt4pack View Post
    Well the Democrats are also responsible as they're the ones who have don't seem to have a problem with illegals coming into the country which started after the 70's and has the side effect of pushing down wages as they will do work for cheaper.
    Keep listening to your Faux News bullshit, bro.

    You really think Democrats are the reason illegal immigrants have driven wages so far down?

    Seriously? Think about it for two fucking seconds. Who benefits from people working for cheap?

    Oh...right...their bosses...CEOs...the Corporations...the vast majority of whom lean Republican on financial issues.

    Wake the fuck up dude. Republicans want illegal immigrants here more than Democrats do...
    ill probably be infracted for this post

  5. #225
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teebone View Post
    All I ask for is that We, the People get to vote on Congress' next pay raise and wether it goes through or not. Dont'cha think so, folks?
    I rather doubt most of Congress would care, given that they're on average literal millionaires.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
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  6. #226
    Scarab Lord DEATHETERNAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
    I see you conveniently left out the part where I said the best system is the current mixed charity and welfare one, where people get the best of both worlds, and welfare fills in the gaps that charity leaves sadly wide open.

    Including it probably was rather inconvenient to your response.
    Since I already addressed its inefficiency, not really.
    And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.
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  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    That's actually kind of pitiful. There's a ton of trades up here that you can go straight from a 2 year tradeschool diploma to making over 20 dollars an hour. That's entry level, and without over time.
    That's what I did.

  8. #228
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinner981 View Post
    And if all companies are able to hire more employees, that means there will be more people able to afford products. What goes around comes around they say. If all companies suddenly have more workers and therefore more people are making money, there will be more people to buy those burgers from mcdonalds. That's why increasing minimum wage across the board, which would raise the cost of living, would cause a company to sell less product on average.
    What happens when they're working for $4 an hour, and can't even afford that?

    People consume things at a pretty constant rate, and they buy what they can afford. There are essential costs of living, and when someone goes below that line, government intervenes. What you're talking about would result in the necessity of EXPANDING welfare.

    You're not going to increase consumer buying power by paying two people 3.50 instead of one person 7.00, unless you really do want to expand welfare.


    It seems that the ultimate end game of Republican policy is to reduce the "unemployment" figure with total disregard to the quality of life for those actually employed.
    “Terrible things are happening outside. Poor helpless people are being dragged out of their homes. Families are torn apart. Men, women, and children are separated. Children come home from school to find that their parents have disappeared.”
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  9. #229
    The Undying Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt4pack View Post
    Well the Democrats are also responsible as they're the ones who have don't seem to have a problem with illegals coming into the country which started after the 70's and has the side effect of pushing down wages as they will do work for cheaper.
    The imaginary threat of illegal immigrants has stopped for years already...
    In the fact of the matter, the situation in the US is as bad, that even the Mexicans don't wanna come over anymore. They're starting to be better off in Mexico now.
    Mexico is on recovery track and the people there doing better than they used to do 40 yrs ago..... On the contrary, Americans are doing worse to how they did 40 yrs ago.
    "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHETERNAL View Post
    Since I already addressed its inefficiency, not really.
    You just said it was inefficient and left it at that. You never explained why or how it was inefficient beyond your own personal feelings.
    “Terrible things are happening outside. Poor helpless people are being dragged out of their homes. Families are torn apart. Men, women, and children are separated. Children come home from school to find that their parents have disappeared.”
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  11. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHETERNAL View Post
    Since I already addressed its inefficiency, not really.
    Addressed its inefficiency? No, all you did was compare private charity to a business.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    I think the important point they were trying to make is that there are ALWAYS going to be entry-level jobs, unskilled labor, etc. There will ALWAYS (until cheap robot labor, one supposes) be a need for people to fill those positions. Every time someone gets promoted, gets new skills that earn them a better job, etc, they leave behind a position that still needs to be filled. But fuck the new guy for not having the skills and/or experience to get a better job in the first place.

    Those jobs will ALWAYS be there. We're just trying to say that since we need people for said jobs, and there will always be people working in said jobs, that maybe said jobs shouldn't suck so much.
    How does inflation make a job less sucky? Its not like they will be doing less work, on the contrary they will probably be worked even harder per hour if they are getting paid more.
    “Humanism means that the man is the measure of all things...But it is not only that man must start from himself in the area of knowledge and learning, but any value system must come arbitrarily from man himself by arbitrary choice.” - Francis A. Schaeffer

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Ave07 View Post
    The only people who make minimum wage where I live are those who work at McDonalds or Walmart, otherwise almost every job pays $10 and up here even construction.

    The rent here is ridiculously high here so I can't imagine how people live off those jobs unless they live at home or with multiple roomates.
    "even construction"

    you don't realize that some construction workers make more than the average college graduate EVER will.

    cashiers of all types make minimum wage usually, very few make 10% over minimum wage. that's "i'm forced to live with family or a roommate" territory, regardless of your hard, 40 hour week

    that's a shit life, most jobs lead to a shit life and the country can NOT do without them. until people realize that, and quit, and then every major corporation loses millions that first day, not much will change. america needs all these undereducated people or the country collapses

    the bottom line is the CEOs and owners have to make less so the ones on teh bottom can make more or eventually, nobody makes anything, it's happened before. huge empires fall apart when enough people are poor

  14. #234
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinner981 View Post
    It is at my store at least. I work at a pizza place, where the manager is living by the monthly paycheck. Us min wage workers make the pizzas (and all the other food for that matter), wait the tables and deliver the pizzas, not to mention clean the restaurant. Ask my manager how much would get done around there without any minimum wage workers, without forcing all 4 managers to be working 85 hours a week.
    So the management is going to go out and hire additional employees they don't need to satisfy present demand on the hypothesis that other companies will do the same and the end result will be demand increasing?

    You appear to be basing your thoughts on an economy-wide generalization of the popular-but-wrong "Ford paid well so employees could buy his cars" story.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
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  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by spinner981 View Post
    And if all companies are able to hire more employees, that means there will be more people able to afford products. What goes around comes around they say. If all companies suddenly have more workers and therefore more people are making money, there will be more people to buy those burgers from mcdonalds. That's why increasing minimum wage across the board, which would raise the cost of living, would cause a company to sell less product on average.
    It takes a special kind of fool to argue and actually believe that if people were paid more they'd buy less...

  16. #236
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinner981 View Post
    And if all companies are able to hire more employees, that means there will be more people able to afford products.
    The central issue is that people can't afford things when they are working. Having more people scraping by does not mean you'll increase sales, at all.

    You need to increase their capacity to spend, which means increasing the wages.

    We're talking about people who are currently on welfare/unemployment. Working a minimum wage job does not significantly increase their ability to spend.


  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Hraklea View Post
    As I said in a previous post, not everybody can beat poverty. That's a problem with capitalism, and libertarians don't deny it. But does the welfare state makes it possible to everybody to leave poverty? No, it doesn't. Asking the free market to do it is pure ignorance.

    The true issue here is which system allows more people to leave poverty. I believe it is a free market capitalism.
    If that's the case why are countries that have more social nets (barring uk and france) have much better economic mobility than the US? The US ranks the 3rd worst.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Ave07 View Post
    The only people who make minimum wage where I live are those who work at McDonalds or Walmart, otherwise almost every job pays $10 and up here even construction.

    The rent here is ridiculously high here so I can't imagine how people live off those jobs unless they live at home or with multiple roomates.
    Holy ignorant classist out the ass....

    Dude, Construction is seriously skilled work that pays quite well. WTF are getting this acting like Construction was some sort of low-level job!?

  19. #239
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    It takes a special kind of fool to argue and actually believe that if people were paid more they'd buy less...
    Or what he's implying, if they're paid less but there's more of them, they'd still be able to afford to eat at McD's. Or pay their rent.

    My ludicrous meter just broke.
    “Terrible things are happening outside. Poor helpless people are being dragged out of their homes. Families are torn apart. Men, women, and children are separated. Children come home from school to find that their parents have disappeared.”
    Diary of Anne Frank
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  20. #240
    As an American Democrat I have to say this.


    Anyone who wants a raised minimum wage must not know anything about economics. If they raise the minimum wage, the price of living goes up with it. It does nothing. Its like a placebo effect that in turn creates inflation.

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