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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    You're responding to someone who described being poor and unskilled as a "lifestyle choice". Why bother?
    How is remaining in a minimum wage job for longer than, say, 12 months not a lifestyle choice? For that matter, remaining "unskilled"? There are plenty of marketable trade skills that can be acquired autodidactically, for no investment other than one's time -- how is not committing one's free time to acquiring them, not a lifestyle choice?

    Minimum wage hikes have no demonstrable record of raising anyone out of poverty not meaningfully increasing their purchasing power (especially since everything they have to buy probably comes from a business that just had its overhead hiked by the increased minimum wage).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Its easy to vote against it. You just have to be bought and sold by the corporations, like most the GOP.

    Well I'll just add this to my list of Reasons I'll Never Vote for the GOP for Anything. Item #2981.
    Or have the first and slightest clue about the costs and logistics of running a small business, that too could lead someone to vote against it.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    Saved thousands of jobs in the process. Nobody is supposed to be able to live on minimum wage, let alone support themselves or a family indefinitely. Minimum wage jobs -- low skill, low education jobs -- are supposed to be transitory, things you either have to get work experience you can parlay into better paying careers, or things you grab onto in time of need to avert crisis. They are not supposed to be a valid lifestyle choice.

    At $10.10/hr, thousands of small businesses across all channels would either be cutting down in size or closing altogether. And countless thousands of young people would lose their first job opportunity. Take a franchise QSR -- right now, you might hire a 16 year old to answer the phone. They can't go into your restaurant's walk-in, can't work with sharps, can't work late. By no rational measure is that 16 year old able to provide in labor anything worth $10.10/hr to their employer, just because of the law restricting them. So that 16 year old will not get that job, ever, when there is a 20 year old available who can do all the tasks. And in turn, like in a pizza restaurant, the entire job of "phone person" would probably go away, because for that much money, you need any employees you keep to be able to do all the jobs in the store as needed, make food, deliver, etc.
    Minimum wage jobs are a requirement for society to function. There are some optional ones like fast food of course, but our method of obtaining food is to go to the store. Without all those minimum wage employees you don't get food. Kids cannot replace all the minimum wage jobs.

    Believing that minimum wage jobs are "supposed to be transitory" indicates that you do not live in reality. We didn't have a society where everyone had great jobs and then someone got the great idea to add shit jobs for people to work above. No, we started with everyone being peasants and as a society advanced to the point where we have a middle class. Nothing in this has eliminated the need for menial labor in order for society to function. We don't have robots to do everything for us.

    Yes, there are people who will live their entire lives in minimum wage jobs. These people deserve to live, just because you shut your eyes to reality doesn't change that.

  3. #23
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightspear View Post
    In Denmark we don't have a minimum wage set by the government. Unions and Employer Unions work it out through negotiation.

    Yet the minimum wage is about 17000 kroner per month (37 hour work week). Thats roughly 3000 dollars per month. I think its about 18$ per hour.

    This may sound like a lot. But living expenses are far higher in Denmark.
    At current exchange rate, that comes to $21.33/hour.

    The OECD's comparative price levels gives Denmark an index of 154 (i.e. prices on average are 1.54x those in the USA), that comes out to an equivalent wage of $13.86/hour

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Virtua View Post
    I wish things were always so simple. ;P There are plenty of arguments as to why minimum wage should not be a federal issue, as has been stated in this thread. For example, in my area you can very easily get by on $7.25/hr, and still have plenty of money to spend. I once rented an apartment that included utilities, cable and internet for $425. Nice apartment too, recently built and not a single mechanical problem to deal with. Great area as well, right next to a river. and less than a half a mile away from the university I was attending. I was making minimum wage at the time and was able to pay for college, rent and perhaps maybe a little too much alcohol. ;p
    Did you have a car?

  5. #25
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  6. #26
    The Insane Kujako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeones View Post
    Did you have a car?
    I make high five figures and I don't. (shrug) it varies from place to place as I previously said.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

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  7. #27
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    How is remaining in a minimum wage job for longer than, say, 12 months not a lifestyle choice? For that matter, remaining "unskilled"? There are plenty of marketable trade skills that can be acquired autodidactically, for no investment other than one's time -- how is not committing one's free time to acquiring them, not a lifestyle choice?
    The fact that you have to ask these questions shows just how out of touch you are with those who struggle with poverty and less than ideal life situations.
    Forum badass alert:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  8. #28
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    How is remaining in a minimum wage job for longer than, say, 12 months not a lifestyle choice? For that matter, remaining "unskilled"? There are plenty of marketable trade skills that can be acquired autodidactically, for no investment other than one's time -- how is not committing one's free time to acquiring them, not a lifestyle choice?
    You appear to be labouring under the popular conservative delusion that acquiring skills will make a job appear.

    There are more, a lot more, unemployed people than there are open jobs. There are even more unemployed+underemployed people than there are skilled jobs.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Tayler
    Political conservatism is just atavism with extra syllables and a necktie.
    Me on Elite : Dangerous | My WoW characters

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Virtua View Post
    Yeah, but I had it paid off before I even started college. Just a cheap used Civic, but it got me by.
    Yea, my insurance meant that after bills in college I wouldn't have survived without a bit of cash from my father each month. Something is off with you being able to eat on that budget.

  10. #30
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It's $10.25 here in Ontario. Going up to $11 in June. And people are still making a solid case that it should be higher.

    Those trade skill jobs? Pay even better. Because minimum wage pay bumps translate up the pay scale.

    And that's with a similar cost-of-living index and comparable dollar values, too.
    That's the part I would worry about. Getting a 3% cost of living raise from most employers requires twisting their arm.

    10% or more? Ha.
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    I am ACTUALLY ASKING for them to ban me and relieve me from the misery of this thread.

  12. #32
    Scarab Lord DEATHETERNAL's Avatar
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    Good. One small victory for liberty.
    And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.
    Revelation 6:8

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHETERNAL View Post
    Good. One small victory for liberty.
    One giant defeat for the economy.
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
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  14. #34
    The Insane Kujako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHETERNAL View Post
    Good. One small victory for liberty.
    Are you pro-welfare? Cause you can either pay people enough to live, provide them welfare, or let them die. Most people consider the third choice bad, but let us know how you feel.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Oh good. Once again the day is saved thanks to the Republicans. Now we just need to sit here huddled around our burning trash bins for warmth and let Free Market Man do his work.
    The invisible hand of the market will lift people up and out of poverty.

    By their bootstraps.


    With elbow grease.
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    I am ACTUALLY ASKING for them to ban me and relieve me from the misery of this thread.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    The fact that you have to ask these questions shows just how out of touch you are with those who struggle with poverty and less than ideal life situations.
    Odd, this conversation has me convinced I am one of only a few participating who has spent a day in the real world trying to make ends meet for myself and for people depending on me -- which doesn't happen for anyone running a business by overpaying for the value of labor, or by someone finding the first minimum wage job they get and assuming that never moving up to anything better is someone else's fault.

  17. #37

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Xeones View Post
    It's not enough for a person to live on. Only way to get people off welfare is if they actually make something.
    Why don't we just print $100 trillion and give it out to everyone so they can pay their rent for years!

    smh...

  18. #38
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    You appear to be labouring under the popular conservative delusion that acquiring skills will make a job appear.

    There are more, a lot more, unemployed people than there are open jobs. There are even more unemployed+underemployed people than there are skilled jobs.
    What would happen in that case is you'd have people with MBAs flipping burgers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  19. #39
    Immortal SL1200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtua View Post
    I wish things were always so simple. ;P There are plenty of arguments as to why minimum wage should not be a federal issue, as has been stated in this thread. For example, in my area you can very easily get by on $7.25/hr, and still have plenty of money to spend. I once rented an apartment that included utilities, cable and internet for $425. Nice apartment too, recently built and not a single mechanical problem to deal with. Great area as well, right next to a river. and less than a half a mile away from the university I was attending. I was making minimum wage at the time and was able to pay for college, rent and perhaps maybe a little too much alcohol. ;p
    Typical blathering from someone who doesn't know what it takes to raise a family. It's nice to be young.

  20. #40
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    Odd, this conversation has me convinced I am one of only a few participating who has spent a day in the real world
    And your posts have me convinced you have no empathy or ability to see anything outside of your own life circumstances.

    You can sit there are go "I'm the only one who knows the truth" all you want. Doesn't make it true.

    If nothing else, the fact you assert that you feel like you are one of the few who has "spent a day in the real world" is actually just proving the opposite.

    EDIT -- And really, what is so offensive about the idea of a full time job providing enough income to be self-reliant and not require government assistance? I really don't understand why that seems to be so offensive to people.
    Forum badass alert:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

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