Page 54 of 90 FirstFirst ...
4
44
52
53
54
55
56
64
... LastLast
  1. #1061
    Quote Originally Posted by Mavick View Post
    When you sit back and look at that hopefully you see how much theory is involved in what you're saying. You compare that to the situation as it is now and you wonder if it's really worth it to take that step without knowing how much impact it may have and how utterly wrong you may be.
    The situation as it is? At the worst its a no brainer 500,000 people lose their jobs and 23,000,000 are no longer in poverty. What is the issue here?

  2. #1062
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    79,138
    Quote Originally Posted by matt4pack View Post
    So what's happening in France? They support all the same policies you are supporting. You just keep pointing out Canada which by the way has a housing bubble. If that ever bursts then things could change there as well.
    What, specifically, are you referring to? France isn't on the infographic in question.

    And my point is that the economic success or failure of these nations can't be summed up as simply as "socialism bad".

    Also, if the housing bubble in Canada were to break (and there's no real consensus that there even is a bubble; http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/03...n_5019368.html), that wouldn't cause our economy to collapse. The issue in the US was the widespread collapse due to banking policies that allowed for banks to be overextended in dangerous ways. Canada didn't have the same issue because we'd legislated against letting the banks do that in the first place. A housing bubble collapse would be bad news for the housing industry and homeowners who see their home as an investment, but it wouldn't destroy our economy.


  3. #1063
    Increase to minimum wage = inflation = same relative price for everything anyway......

  4. #1064
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Aelia Capitolina
    Posts
    59,342
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    What, specifically, are you referring to? France isn't on the infographic in question.

    And my point is that the economic success or failure of these nations can't be summed up as simply as "socialism bad".

    Also, if the housing bubble in Canada were to break (and there's no real consensus that there even is a bubble; http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/03...n_5019368.html), that wouldn't cause our economy to collapse. The issue in the US was the widespread collapse due to banking policies that allowed for banks to be overextended in dangerous ways. Canada didn't have the same issue because we'd legislated against letting the banks do that in the first place. A housing bubble collapse would be bad news for the housing industry and homeowners who see their home as an investment, but it wouldn't destroy our economy.
    Are commercial banks allowed to also be investment banks or is that separated in Canada-land?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bowjobs View Post
    Increase to minimum wage = inflation = same relative price for everything anyway......
    Already disproven. Find another talking point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  5. #1065
    Blademaster
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Waterloo, ON
    Posts
    40
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Are commercial banks allowed to also be investment banks or is that separated in Canada-land?
    .
    Yes, banks do both here.

  6. #1066
    Banned Orlong's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Class 1,000,000 Clean Room
    Posts
    13,127
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You do realize this is directly contradicting your prior claim, that increasing the minimum wage will just end up with everyone who makes more than that making proportionally less, right?

    All those raises and such take into account things like cost of living. That's the point. You can't argue for wage inertia while also pointing out the regular pay bumps that go on.
    Im not contradicting. Yeah, we get cost of living raises and so do people who STARTED at minimum wage but new hires are now going to get $3 more an hour. That screws people who are making $10 an hour plus. It just wiped out all the years of increases they worked hard for and now new people get to start at the same rate without doing any work prior to getting that rate. Unless you give EVERYONE $3 an hour the middle class gets less spending power. Yeah our wages will slowly increase through cost of living wages, but we will never recoup that $3 an hour loss in purchasing power. (IE The middle class people keep getting their cost of living raises, but the people who start at minimum wage now get $3/hour plus cost of living raises during the same period. It keeps the wages separated but not by as much

  7. #1067
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    17,973
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Are commercial banks allowed to also be investment banks or is that separated in Canada-land?
    Not separated.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Tayler
    Political conservatism is just atavism with extra syllables and a necktie.
    Me on Elite : Dangerous | My WoW characters

  8. #1068
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Welcome to the left wing. Here's your first lesson.

    Welfare queens are by and large a myth.
    They are NOT a myth, I know they are a small minority though.

    I know this is anecdotal, and I have no way to prove it, but I'll tell you the story anyway. In my home town of Peoria, Illinois (about 240 miles from Hell) there was a single mother of 5 who was on welfare. She did not work, and she wasn't living it up or anything, they lived in a tiny 3 bedroom home (in Peoria that's not that expensive, and with 5 kids it was crowded) but she was getting by. She had the kids largely to get a bigger check each month (of her own admission) but here's the part that really gets me. She didn't have a job, not because she couldn't but (before she had the kids) she was too obsessed with daytime TV to work during the day. So obsessed, in fat, that whenever one of her kids was sick or hurt, she would not take them to the doctor until after her TV shows were off. At which point, it was just too late to get in at a regular doctor's office.

    This was before we had prompt/urgent care centers in Peoria, so what she then proceeded to do was take her child(ren) to the emergency room for EVERY little thing that happened. Now, as those of you who know anything about the medical system know, going to an emergency room as opposed to seeing a doctor during regular hours for things like the flu or upset stomachs is WILDLY more expensive. She did not work, had no insurance, and all of this was covered by taxpayers. She did this because she couldn't be bothered to stop watching her shows to show up for an actual doctor's appointment.

    May seem like an exaggeration, and you don't have to believe me, but she did exist, and she did forever have a negative impact on my view of people on welfare that it has taken me years to adjust from. SHE is the type of person who I would say 'let them die' about, frankly her kids would be better in a foster home than with her, and I RARELY say that.
    Druidjezus' Law: "As the length of any online discussion increases, the probability that [insert any topic here] will be mentioned approaches 1, duh."
    I am the Druid Jesus, and I approve of this message.

  9. #1069
    I am Murloc! crakerjack's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Ptwn, Oregon
    Posts
    5,014
    Let me say that minimum wage should go up, but it should be a ratio thing that applies to almost all jobs where you're not already earning 200k+. If someone has a certificate and only earns $15 an hour, their pay should go up to $20-25 an hour while the minimum wage only goes up to $15.

    I guess the main reason i'm bitter towards most people demanding more for minimum wage than just $15 is because they made the choice to not make education their number one priority. If you didn't go to college to get a decent degree, then you shouldn't be able to have a kids. I can't stress enough how much i'd love to get in the face of a mother who continues to have children when she's already on welfare and no job. When you ask those types of people why they have no money, the first reason is that they have too much on their hands. Common sense tells me that I should get a career first before starting a family so that I have a foundation to support not only myself, but everyone in my family. While I was working hard on project and devoting my time to get an A, other students were out drinking and trying to find where the parties were at. Not saying I didn't party or smoke weed, I did and still do, but with moderation. I knew people who were always in the party mode and every school night they were trying to find who was throwing a party or who wanted to go out to the bars. When I had no work or it was almost done, I would reward myself w/ a night out and enjoy myself, which I did. Some people just had an obsession with that lifestyle and could never fully grasp the concept of moderation. Because of my efforts, I make a living that is more than enough to support myself, while those people who slacked off are begging for higher welfare.

    Either you bust your ass and work hard at a young age and get to appreciate a less burdening lifestyle as an adult, or you slack off as a kid and get to bust your ass off w/ labor intensive jobs until retirement or death, which ever comes first. I made my choice, unfortunately, others didn't do the same, so now they're bitching about how the government owes them something. These people need to look in a mirror and realize that their choices as a kid growing up held extreme ripples in their future.
    Last edited by crakerjack; 2014-05-01 at 06:32 PM.
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  10. #1070
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    79,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Bowjobs View Post
    Increase to minimum wage = inflation = same relative price for everything anyway......
    Literally cannot be true. This isn't a matter where you can have a different opinion due to ideological differences; it can not be true. Mathematically impossible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Are commercial banks allowed to also be investment banks or is that separated in Canada-land?
    They can be both, but they can't use funds from one to shore up the other. That was the big issue in the US; banks were overextended on long mortgages and couldn't keep doing business when things came crashing down; they ran out of money. That isn't (and wasn't) allowed, here.


  11. #1071
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    What, specifically, are you referring to? France isn't on the infographic in question.

    And my point is that the economic success or failure of these nations can't be summed up as simply as "socialism bad".

    Also, if the housing bubble in Canada were to break (and there's no real consensus that there even is a bubble; http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/03...n_5019368.html), that wouldn't cause our economy to collapse. The issue in the US was the widespread collapse due to banking policies that allowed for banks to be overextended in dangerous ways. Canada didn't have the same issue because we'd legislated against letting the banks do that in the first place. A housing bubble collapse would be bad news for the housing industry and homeowners who see their home as an investment, but it wouldn't destroy our economy.
    I'm just pointing out that France supports all the policies being echoed in here yet they are struggling along. Every case is different but if you are going to point out successes then you also need to point out struggles with those policies.

    I never said Canada's banking system would collapse but it sure would hurt the middle class who are benefiting from appreciating assets just like what was happening in the US before the bubble burst. My home keeps going up in value so I can afford more mentality.

  12. #1072
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Aelia Capitolina
    Posts
    59,342
    Quote Originally Posted by Druidjezus View Post
    They are NOT a myth, I know they are a small minority though.

    I know this is anecdotal, and I have no way to prove it, but I'll tell you the story anyway. In my home town of Peoria, Illinois (about 240 miles from Hell) there was a single mother of 5 who was on welfare. She did not work, and she wasn't living it up or anything, they lived in a tiny 3 bedroom home (in Peoria that's not that expensive, and with 5 kids it was crowded) but she was getting by. She had the kids largely to get a bigger check each month (of her own admission) but here's the part that really gets me. She didn't have a job, not because she couldn't but (before she had the kids) she was too obsessed with daytime TV to work during the day. So obsessed, in fat, that whenever one of her kids was sick or hurt, she would not take them to the doctor until after her TV shows were off. At which point, it was just too late to get in at a regular doctor's office.

    This was before we had prompt/urgent care centers in Peoria, so what she then proceeded to do was take her child(ren) to the emergency room for EVERY little thing that happened. Now, as those of you who know anything about the medical system know, going to an emergency room as opposed to seeing a doctor during regular hours for things like the flu or upset stomachs is WILDLY more expensive. She did not work, had no insurance, and all of this was covered by taxpayers. She did this because she couldn't be bothered to stop watching her shows to show up for an actual doctor's appointment.

    May seem like an exaggeration, and you don't have to believe me, but she did exist, and she did forever have a negative impact on my view of people on welfare that it has taken me years to adjust from. SHE is the type of person who I would say 'let them die' about, frankly her kids would be better in a foster home than with her, and I RARELY say that.
    > Welfare Queens are not a myth.
    > Uses anecdote to prove it.

    Seriously. It in no way refutes the need for public assistance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  13. #1073
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    And then increased buying power will generate new jobs to replace them.
    2.5 percent of all workers and 1.5 percent of the population of potential workers at or below the minimum wage. Within that small group, 31 percent are teenagers and 55 percent are 25 years old or younger.

    That doesn't sound like a big job generating demographic to me.

    Are the Dems really trying to spin this as trickle up economics?

  14. #1074
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Aelia Capitolina
    Posts
    59,342
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    They can be both, but they can't use funds from one to shore up the other. That was the big issue in the US; banks were overextended on long mortgages and couldn't keep doing business when things came crashing down; they ran out of money. That isn't (and wasn't) allowed, here.
    Same thing in Australia. We had Keating to thank for a very robust financial sector structured around the big four banks that weren't allowed to merge with each other or use their commerical assets for investment purposes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  15. #1075
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    79,138
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    Im not contradicting. Yeah, we get cost of living raises and so do people who STARTED at minimum wage but new hires are now going to get $3 more an hour. That screws people who are making $10 an hour plus.
    There's the contradiction.

    The people who are making $10/hour plus right now will see pay raises. You just said that, and then later claimed they wouldn't.

    Again, any glance at wage history in the Western world disproves your claim. It doesn't happen anywhere. It's not like we don't have hundreds of minimum wage increases over the past century or so to look at.

    If people making $10/hour right now don't ask for a pay raise, and end up making minimum wage, then the issue is that they didn't negotiate their salary. It has nothing to do with the increase in minimum wage, and everything to do with the apathy of the workers in question.


  16. #1076
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    I haven't made anything up, actually.
    Switzerland with it's sky high minimum wage having higher buying power which was completely false?

  17. #1077
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Aelia Capitolina
    Posts
    59,342
    Quote Originally Posted by Kezmaefele View Post
    2.5 percent of all workers and 1.5 percent of the population of potential workers at or below the minimum wage. Within that small group, 31 percent are teenagers and 55 percent are 25 years old or younger.

    That doesn't sound like a big job generating demographic to me.

    Are the Dems really trying to spin this as trickle up economics?
    Once again, it's been shown that upward adjustments to the minimum wage have a cascade effect at all wage levels. More pay across the board = more buying power = more demand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  18. #1078
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The people who are making $10/hour plus right now will see pay raises.
    Based on what?
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    I am ACTUALLY ASKING for them to ban me and relieve me from the misery of this thread.

  19. #1079
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    Based on what?
    Theory. And some will post out historical references that aren't remotely close in scale to what this proposed raise was to be.

  20. #1080
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Rigging your election
    Posts
    36,843
    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    Let me say that minimum wage should go up, but it should be a ratio thing that applies to almost all jobs where you're not already earning 200k+. If someone has a certificate and only earns $15 an hour, their pay should go up to $20-25 an hour while the minimum wage only goes up to $15.

    I guess the main reason i'm bitter towards most people demanding more for minimum wage than just $15 is because they made the choice to not make education their number one priority. If you didn't go to college to get a decent degree, then you shouldn't be able to have a kids. I can't stress enough how much i'd love to get in the face of a mother who continues to have children when she's already on welfare and no job. When you ask those types of people why they have no money, the first reason is that they have too much on their hands. Common sense tells me that I should get a career first before starting a family so that I have a foundation to support not only myself, but everyone in my family. While I was working hard on project and devoting my time to get an A, other students were out drinking and trying to find where the parties were at. Not saying I didn't party or smoke weed, I did and still do, but with moderation. I knew people who were always in the party mode and every school night they were trying to find who was throwing a party or who wanted to go out to the bars. When I had no work or it was almost done, I would reward myself w/ a night out and enjoy myself, which I did. Some people just had an obsession with that lifestyle and could never fully grasp the concept of moderation. Because of my efforts, I make a living that is more than enough to support myself, while those people who slacked off are begging for higher welfare.

    Either you bust your ass and work hard at a young age and get to appreciate a less burdening lifestyle as an adult, or you slack off as a kid and get to bust your ass off w/ labor intensive jobs until retirement or death, which ever comes first. I made my choice, unfortunately, others didn't do the same, so now they're bitching about how the government owes them something. These people need to look in a mirror and realize that their choices as a kid growing up held extreme ripples in their future.
    They exist. But the fact remains that conservatives wield welfare queens like it's the entire system. Studies have found that incidents like these are in the 1-3% range of ALL welfare recipients.

    Remember the whole drug testing for welfare debacle in Florida? The one where the governor who enacted the bill had stock in the company that did drug testing? The one that COST the state more than it saved in people it took off welfare due to the number of welfare users on drugs being below 1%?

    Using welfare queens, as rare as they are, as a sword against welfare is dishonest at best.
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
    2023: "What's with all these massively successful games with ugly (realistic) women? How could this have happened?!"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •