Republicans successfully block minimum wage bill

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The mayor of Seattle just proposed a plan that would gradually raise the city's minimum wage to $15 an hour over the next 7 years, lets see how it turns out.

I'm certain things will improve.

[Deleted]

Sorry if I'm skimming over a lot of this:

I get that overall, wages have gone up along with minimum wage hikes.

What I'm trying to wrap my head around is why that's a good thing? Someone else pointed out, more buying power = more demand. Simple economics, more demand, less supply, prices go up.

Take a product like Lasik Eye surgery.
Back around, 2000? It costed ~$2000 an eye? Maybe more?
Today, you can get it for around $300 an eye.

I'd wager that having less people able to afford something like that has driven prices down more than anything else.

Heck, I'd imagine the price difference would be more dramatic if I took inflationary dollars into account.

Supply side factors catch up in the longer run, so inflation is fairly muted.

For example:

If I have a car factory and more people start to buy cars, I make more money and reinvest (or a new firm notices the extra demand and thus opens a competing factory ) either way this expands supply. So in the longer term we have more investment, stable prices and growth. In fact this creates a cyclical 'multiplier effect' which is positive for jobs and output (GDP)

That's the basic economic theory anyway , although you were correct about the inflation (economists call it demand pull inflation) , its one part of the picture only

[Druidjezus]

I'm certain things will improve.

It's funny, people are losing their minds over it and it hasn't even passed yet, many of them don't live in Seattle at all. I really, really feel like someone who lives in Kentucky should get smacked for complaining about how a minimum wage increase in Seattle is communism. If they like it, they can go to Seattle, if they have a problem with it... stay where they are and stfu?

[oxymoronic]

Then take a loot at pay rates before and after pretty much any minimum wage increase.



That's a comparison between manufacturing wages, and the minimum wage.

As you can clearly see, the curves are pretty much identical.

The one that lags is the minimum wage. The big spikes are corrections, to account for this. And the upcoming hike is simply the next such correction.

You have given no evidence to support your claim. If your claim were true, doctors would make minimum wage today, as the current minimum wage has surpassed what was once a doctor's salary. The reality is, wages adapt to the new conditions, and those who make above minimum wage continue to make above minimum wage, because they are not apathetic, and are perfectly capable and willing to negotiate their own salary increases.

you know why that chart doesnt continue to today? cause the min wage went up sharply around that time.

[Resurgo]

Maybe if that was true. Stuff just keeps getting more expansive. Or a big business in a small town is the only place to get food and stuff is so cheap that one just has to because economy sucks(Think Wal-mart). Oh and Gas prices have been highest since.. I was in High School -_-

Take a look at inflationary adjusted pricing for oil/gas then
"inflationdata.com/inflation/images/charts/Oil/Gasoline_inflation_chart.htm"

They are higher (I'm not going to argue that), but I'd wager, we're doing okay when you consider how much demand places like China, and increased population brings to a commodity like that. More cars=more gas. More oil to make the tires that all those cars are riding on, etc.

Stuff gets more expensive relatively because of inflation. I could go to McDonalds and get a 2 Big Macs for $2 special maybe 10 years ago? Sure won't find that today. Bread used to cost a nickel according to my parents.

[Elegiac]

Take a look at inflationary adjusted pricing for oil/gas then
"inflationdata.com/inflation/images/charts/Oil/Gasoline_inflation_chart.htm"

They are higher (I'm not going to argue that), but I'd wager, we're doing okay when you consider how much demand places like China, and increased population brings to a commodity like that. More cars=more gas. More oil to make the tires that all those cars are riding on, etc.

Stuff gets more expensive relatively because of inflation. I could go to McDonalds and get a 2 Big Macs for $2 special maybe 10 years ago? Sure won't find that today. Bread used to cost a nickel according to my parents.

The problem is that we are still experiencing the fallout of supply shock over gasoline which has raised the cost of living across the board.

[Druidjezus]

Supply side factors catch up in the longer run, so inflation is fairly muted.

For example:

If I have a car factory and more people start to buy cars, I make more money and reinvest (or a new firm notices the extra demand and thus opens a competing factory ) either way this expands supply. So in the longer term we have more investment, stable prices and growth. In fact this creates a cyclical 'multiplier effect' which is positive for jobs and output (GDP)

That's the basic economic theory anyway , although you were correct about the inflation (economists call it demand pull inflation) , its one part of the picture only

Ultimately though, demand pull inflation is a very good thing, and typically means you have a strong consumer-based economy. The last thing you want in a consumer-based economy is people not having enough money to spend on the goods you produce.

I believe I've said this in another thread on a similar topic many months back, but:

Minimum wage increases give people who are below the new minimum wage a bump (unless they were close to the new value) but it can have a negative effect on people who were just above the new minimum wage if they aren't able to get a raise. I think a large part of the friction here is that proponents of raising the minimum wage think those people WOULD be able to get a raise if the minimum wage went up, but opponents are not so confident. To me, those are really the only valid positions in the debate.

For someone who is currently making $12 an hour, a minimum wage increase to $10 an hour could have a significant impact on their purchasing power if they aren't able to get a raise by a similar amount in a short amount of time. It's possible that they will get a raise, but it's a legit concern that they'd end up getting screwed by the change.

If you're arguing against a minimum wage increase not because of the effects it might have on purchasing power but because you're a "RAWR FREE MARKET" r-tard then frankly you should go read some of the economic texts you claim to believe in, idealists have no place in a debate concerning reality.

[Mavick]

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/...last&sort=desc

Wait what?

Rofl, all that graph tells us is apparently we need to go live in Quatar apparently. Seriously man, the clear cut link I provided:

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/PA.NUS.PPPC.RF

ranks each country compared to the US in terms of purchasing power, where Switzerland apparently pays $1.50 for every US dollar of goods bought. That means, on average, the average Switzerland citizen pays 50% more for stuff than we do. That means they have less purchasing power than we do. That means you're full of shit, essentially.

[Zhangfei]

Rofl, all that graph tells us is apparently we need to go live in Quatar apparently. Seriously man, the clear cut link I provided:

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/PA.NUS.PPPC.RF

ranks each country compared to the US in terms of purchasing power, where Switzerland apparently pays $1.50 for every US dollar of goods bought. That means, on average, the average Switzerland citizen pays 50% more for stuff than we do. That means they have less purchasing power than we do. That means you're full of shit, essentially.

It doesn't apparently take into account what services are provided by the governments though - having more purchasing power doesn't actually mean you're necessarily better off. A Swiss maybe paying $1.50 for a cheesburger from McDonalds, but don't have to spend an extra $200 a month on healthcare and $200 on student debt.

[Druidjezus]

Rofl, all that graph tells us is apparently we need to go live in Quatar apparently. Seriously man, the clear cut link I provided:

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/PA.NUS.PPPC.RF

ranks each country compared to the US in terms of purchasing power, where Switzerland apparently pays $1.50 for every US dollar of goods bought. That means, on average, the average Switzerland citizen pays 50% more for stuff than we do. That means they have less purchasing power than we do. That means you're full of shit, essentially.

By your logic, people in Pakistan have TWICE the purchasing power of people in the U.S., so please elaborate how what you said makes any sense at all?

- - - Updated - - -

It doesn't apparently take into account what services are provided by the governments though - having more purchasing power doesn't actually mean you're necessarily better off. A Swiss maybe paying $1.50 for a cheesburger from McDonalds, but don't have to spend an extra $200 a month on healthcare and $200 on student debt.

It also doesn't factor in the PPP relative to the average income, which might make for an actually USEFUL chart.

[Xeones]

you know why that chart doesnt continue to today? cause the min wage went up sharply around that time.

No that is actually a complete and total blatant lie.

http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/chart.htm

1997 was the last minimum wage bump on the chart and it was exactly 10 years before the next increase which was a measly 70 cent bump. Even now it's just 7.25. That has been NO sharp increase in minimum wage in recent history.

[araine]

Because getting rid of the welfare programs would vastly decrease their quality of living and result in an increase in poverty. Not to mention causing the economy to contract.

But they dont care, as long as corporate profit goes up they are happy if it means 50 million more living on the streets and diving dumpsters behind mcdonalds for food.

[Trubo]

Rofl, all that graph tells us is apparently we need to go live in Quatar apparently. Seriously man, the clear cut link I provided:

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/PA.NUS.PPPC.RF

ranks each country compared to the US in terms of purchasing power, where Switzerland apparently pays $1.50 for every US dollar of goods bought. That means, on average, the average Switzerland citizen pays 50% more for stuff than we do. That means they have less purchasing power than we do. That means you're full of shit, essentially.

The way I understand for reading those figures is that anything below 1 means that someone who lives in the US would have an increase in purchasing power in the respective nation if they converted dollars to whatever currency said nation uses and a decrease in purchasing power if greater than 1. Assuming that's the case then that would mean nations who have a value greater than 1 with respect to the US have more purchasing power than the US with their currency.

[Xeones]

But they dont care, as long as corporate profit goes up they are happy if it means 50 million more living on the streets and diving dumpsters behind mcdonalds for food.

There would also be a massive increase in crime.

[Sazabius]

No that is actually a complete and total blatant lie.

http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/chart.htm

1997 was the last minimum wage bump on the chart and it was exactly 10 years before the next increase which was a measly 70 cent bump. Even now it's just 7.25. That has been NO sharp increase in minimum wage in recent history.

I was gonna say - what spike? lol

There would also be a massive increase in crime.

Crime is it's own industry and business is good.

[Resurgo]

I might be a bit of a negative nancy, but I'm of the opinion that Welfare is there, not to help the poor, but to keep the rich safer.

The more people out there with nothing to lose, the more rich people have to fear in their homes late at night.

[Xeones]

I might be a bit of a negative nancy, but I'm of the opinion that Welfare is there, not to help the poor, but to keep the rich safer.

The more people out there with nothing to lose, the more rich people have to fear in their homes late at night.

I don't think that is the main reason, but it is an effect. If we were to remove welfare we would see immediate reprisals. French Revolution all over again.

[Masark]

The mayor of Seattle just proposed a plan that would gradually raise the city's minimum wage to $15 an hour over the next 7 years, lets see how it turns out.

3, 4, or 7 years, depending on the size of the company and whether they provide health insurance.

Large companies (500+ employees) that don't provide insurance will be paying out $15/hour in 3 years.

Large companies that do will get an extra year of ramp up.

And small companies get it ramped up over 7 years.

- - - Updated - - -

I might be a bit of a negative nancy, but I'm of the opinion that Welfare is there, not to help the poor, but to keep the rich safer.

The more people out there with nothing to lose, the more rich people have to fear in their homes late at night.

"It is never wise to appeal to someone's better nature, they may not have one. Invoking their self interest gives you a lot more leverage"

[Felya]

3, 4, or 7 years, depending on the size of the company and whether they provide health insurance.

Large companies (500+ employees) that don't provide insurance will be paying out $15/hour in 3 years.

Large companies that do will get an extra year of ramp up.

And small companies get it ramped up over 7 years.

The minimum wage in Seattle is already higher than federal. It's currently at 9.75$ and we have one of the strongest economies in the country. Microsoft and Amazon have been expending, even during the recession. We are also the top producer of clean energy and are home to Boeing, Nintendo of America, with campuses of every telecom. We are booming... Go Hawks!

[Cthulhu 2020]

I can't wait for the next minimum wage thread, when all of these facts, examples, and historical references will have been ignored by the same forum posters, and they'll bring out yet again the same old tired rhetoric of biblical doomsday if the federal minimum wage is raised.