Remove LFR completely?

[Spray]

Blizzard says that the reason Normal+ raiders feel forced to do LFR is because of set bonuses and trinkets. Does removing those from LFR not fix the problem?

As a current form I meant Mists of Pandaria state. I don't take WoD changes for granted, since they explicitly stated that everything is subject to change in beta.

I'll be glad though if they keep it that way. If someone wants to see all the content, he/she can, regardless of how much he/she's playing or how dedicated to the game he/she is. And better items will be reserved for raiders. Seems to be a very healthy solution!

[rayvio]

it'd be a bad decision. no matter how easy normal mode is to get into or to complete there will always be players wanting the easier option. LFR is one of the most popular features in WoW at the moment so removing it would alienate a large portion of the playerbase and offer no gains. despite hollow protests from the vocal minority LFR's presence in the game has absolutely zero effect on anyone who doesn't engage in LFR. those who want more challenging content have normal, heroic and mythic options and those who just want an easy ride to enjoy the story and scenery have LFR. it's comparable to playing in "story mode" or "casual difficulty" in other games, the harder options are there for those who want them and the easy options existing doesn't hurt anybody

[Hyve]

Warlords of Draenor is turning Looking for Raid into Tourist Mode. With the better balancing of the Flexible Technology, the Flex (Normal Mode in WoD) will be easily accessible to everyone, and the use of the in-game Group Finder will make it just as convenient and simple as LFR today.

[Donald Hellscream]

And what are you? A nice person? You're just like the people you insult. Judging and acting like you're better than anyone else. And you're not. You're no better than the people you want to bash. Actually, you're worse. Because you're ea hypocrite as well.

How exactly am I a hypocrite? Because i can't understand why people cry about LFR all the time?

For the record I have nothing againsts LFR not now and i won't have anything against it in WoD even if it won't have set items and trinkets.

I don't hate people who support the direction WoD is going in, well unless i hate myself because i can't fucking wait until the game is out.

It all boils down to the fact that some people are mad because someone who puts in less effort can get a recoloured and inferior version of the stuff they are wearing, which is what I don't understand.

It just doesn't make sense to link all problems ever to LFR.

Edit: To clarify even more I have never stated that I am better than anyone else, in fact I am a pretty average skilled WoW player who haven't even killed anything on heroic while it was current in this expansion, I did most of Wotlk and some of Cata while it was current but thats the past and holds little relevance now.

[Sansnom]

I can't think of a single logical reason to let LFR stay in the game.

Rewarding zero effort and knowledge with gear better than heroic 5 mans is pathetic.

Cool. So what do you propose as a replacement? Removing LFR fixes the problem, what ever there were in the first place, is only part of the solution.

Here are some conjectural possibilities.

Blizzards does nothing. No LFR. No replacement. People who uses to only run LFR now has nothing else to do. Some may step up. But I would guess many would not. If they could step up to flex or higher, they would have done. The only do LFR because it was their only options. So they will probably leave. Blizzards sees subs lost, possibly quite significant losts. This may affect WoW developments. Contents may be delivered with longer intervals. Good for the raiders and non-raiders. Bad for Blizzards.

Blizzards replaces LFR with other contents. Keeps the former LFR players happy. So Blizzards nows needs to split development between raid contents and non-raid contents. They would either need to hire more people to keep to their delivering contents at the same rate or introduce longer development times. So rather getting 3 or 4 raids, this drops to 2 raids and non-raid contents. Good for Blizzards, not good the raiders and non-raiders.

Blizzards does nothing. No LFR. No subs losts either. The casuals are sheeps and keeps paying Blizzards for no new contents for them but are quite to subsidize the development of contents for the raiders. Contents that they will not participate in. Good for you but not for the non-raiders.

I am sure which scenario many raiders would like, but how likely is that going to happen. Feel free to introduce your own version of possible scenarios. If you can think one scenario that keeps everyone, Blizzards, raiders, non-raiders, share-holders etc happy, I would love to hear it.

[Primernova]

A system like LFR, will never be introduced into any modern MMO, or any MMO in the future.

You can't destroy MMO communities, they have to have a common goal.

[Donald Hellscream]

I can't think of a single logical reason to let LFR stay in the game.

Rewarding zero effort and knowledge with gear better than heroic 5 mans is pathetic.

I got one! pleasing your customers.

Also adding something like that and then removing it would cause more trouble than it is worth.

[Scathbais]

I feel like the "I want the community back" and the "remove LFR because I want to make sure lesser players don't get to experience even a shittier version of what I get to experience because they suck" are mutually exclusive.

The problem with these threads is it is always the people who are not affected by the situation crying the loudest. If you raid normal and heroic and never set foot in LFR, random joe whose only character progression is through LFR doesn't hurt you one bit. But if you remove LFR, random joe would be plenty hurt while it would have zero impact on your gameplay at all. It feels like people are being exclusionary just to widen the gap between themselves and players they feel havne't earned the right to have fun in their video game.

LFR already has shittier loot (soon including no tier sets), recolours to make a visual distinction, separate achievements, limited rewards with regards to things like titles and mounts, and it opens later than their real counterparts so raiders get to experience the content first. Meanwhile, we get much better gear to commend our higher effort, we get unique colourations, we get mounts, we get titles, we get to the see the content first, we get (in my opinion) significantly more enjoyable encounters due to increased complexity, we get to raid with friends and not strangers, and we get achievements and progression tracking specific to our skill level. The system has got just about everything necessary to salvage the egos of players who don't want to be similar to "those people," without excluding those players entirely. Removing LFR entirely is just spiteful.

Wow, this is the PERFECT response and should be copied into every "kill LFR" thread on mmo-c.

+1

[Seefer]

People who uses to only run LFR now has nothing else to do.

According to LFR people the reason they do LFR is because they can't set time to raid, well........Flex (Normal in WOD) can be pugged in 4 places..........trade, oqueue, openraid, and Blizzards raid search tool, so why keep LFR unless it's to let people who refuse to get good at the game ignore mechanics and afk.

[Pony Soldier]

Who would this benefit by removing LFR? Seriously, what would be the point? Will it make WoW that much better of a game because something YOU think is stupid is removed from the game? It's optional content. It has been said a hundred times if you don't like LFR then don't fucking use it. Why get rid of it and take it away from the people who choose to use it? Removing LFR seriously makes no sense and it just sounds like people whining about how much they hate it and how casuals get their gear, in which case, don't worry about how other people get their gear, worry about yourself. Why can't people just ignore it? No, lets get rid of it because I think it's stupid and it's too casual, people shouldn't be allowed to choose how they spend their time in WoW nor are they allowed to have any kind of fun in LFR.

I was so happy when they introduced LFR to the game. After years of not being able to raid because I could never dedicate 3-4 hours in a raid because of school/work. LFR gives me the chance of at least experiencing the new raids without having to feel like I should rush home and raid with my guild. Without it, I would probably never be able to experience any of the new raids because 1. work and 2. I'm not part of the main raiding team. Only time I ever go is if they need a backup. So tell me, for someone like me how am I supposed to experience the new raids that come out? Just wait a couple years until I get invited to raid with the guild (if it's even on a day where I don't work)? Spend more than an hour of my time forming a raid group by myself just to have it fall apart 30 minutes into the raid? Or I guess I should just put WoW in front of everything else in life and just skip work whenever we raid. Not everyone is able to raid like you "hardcore xtreme" raiders do. LFR is the answer to that.

[Amerissis]

If you're not interested in progressing beyond LFR, what do you want the LFR gear for?

Same reason why heroic raiders want gear from heroic raids, while never progressing beyond heroic raids (soon to be called Mythic). Guess we should remove gear from there, too

[Pony Soldier]

I feel like the "I want the community back" and the "remove LFR because I want to make sure lesser players don't get to experience even a shittier version of what I get to experience because they suck" are mutually exclusive.

The problem with these threads is it is always the people who are not affected by the situation crying the loudest. If you raid normal and heroic and never set foot in LFR, random joe whose only character progression is through LFR doesn't hurt you one bit. But if you remove LFR, random joe would be plenty hurt while it would have zero impact on your gameplay at all. It feels like people are being exclusionary just to widen the gap between themselves and players they feel havne't earned the right to have fun in their video game.

LFR already has shittier loot (soon including no tier sets), recolours to make a visual distinction, separate achievements, limited rewards with regards to things like titles and mounts, and it opens later than their real counterparts so raiders get to experience the content first. Meanwhile, we get much better gear to commend our higher effort, we get unique colourations, we get mounts, we get titles, we get to the see the content first, we get (in my opinion) significantly more enjoyable encounters due to increased complexity, we get to raid with friends and not strangers, and we get achievements and progression tracking specific to our skill level. The system has got just about everything necessary to salvage the egos of players who don't want to be similar to "those people," without excluding those players entirely. Removing LFR entirely is just spiteful.

I think this is better said than my post. This is pretty much what I'm trying to say.

[Deleted]

Everyone who put some actual effort into the game. If someone doesn't have the time, he shouldn't be able to see everything at the same pace as someone who actually tried to accomplish something by himself, and not get it handed to him.

so wing one lfr opens 4 weeks after normal. 2nd wing after 6 - what was that u said with "everyone seeing everything at the same pace" my lol'snowflake?...

yes lfr should be removed its gona be pointless, gear worse then dungeon hcs and no tier.
and while your at it please make legendaries and tier only be accessible through mythic raiding. (serious!)
if you want tier or legendaries then work for it! [sarcasm!]

[Dilbon]

I'm predicting that LFR will be more popular than ever in WoD.

[Sansnom]

According to LFR people the reason they do LFR is because they can't set time to raid, well........Flex (Normal in WOD) can be pugged in 4 places..........trade, oqueue, openraid, and Blizzards raid search tool, so why keep LFR unless it's to let people who refuse to get good at the game ignore mechanics and afk.

People LFR for all sort of reasons, time being one of the major reasons. Flex has similar problems as PUGS in the past. Entrance requirements defined by players, not by Blizzards. It was not unusual for the entry requirements to rise because the items levels players expects others to have. The legendary cloak for example. At this stage, people interested in raiding are expected to have it because it shows signs of commitment to "raid".

If you was forming a raid group and see one entirely new player and one well geared player looking for a spot, who would you choose? Form their own raid? These are LFR players. If they can lead a raid, they would most likely being have been raiding already.

Flex is easy to get for some players. Not so for others.

Some people do LFR because that is their only options. Now some portion of the player base wants this option to be removed. For no valid reason that I can see.

[Hb]

Would be a dream come true if they removed LFR. Freaking plague it is to this game.

[Luko]

Would be a dream come true if they removed LFR. Freaking plague it is to this game.

Explain, please.

[Deleted]

I'd personally much prefer it if pre normal mode raid progression was done in TBC style HC's

LFR is blizzards attempt to put lipstick on a pig, it would be much better if blizzard just accepted that the bulk of the playerbase doesn't want to raid and cut spending on raids and made other content instead.

[Sunblaze]

Remove it? Why? Who would that change even be for?

This. Why do people care? If you dont do lfr, why do you want it gone?
I've done mostly LFR during ToT and thats how i got my Legendary cloak.
I've done NO lfr at all since SoO cause i was able to jump into flex.

[Templis]

I'd personally much prefer it if pre normal mode raid progression was done in TBC style HC's

LFR is blizzards attempt to put lipstick on a pig, it would be much better if blizzard just accepted that the bulk of the playerbase doesn't want to raid and cut spending on raids and made other content instead.

It kind of is, though. The gear you get from heroics in the first tier of WoD should be enough to do normal modes (flex). From there you can progress through HC and eventually mythic.

LFR will apparently offer the same loot as heroic dungeons in terms of ilvl, so it will act like an actual stepping stone into raids, especially with the increased drop rate of LFR.

Granted, the grind to start raiding is a lot shorter, but heroics are at least relevant again in that regard and don't make LFR mandatory for casuals who want something more challenging than LFR. I'm not sure how they will balance this out once we get deeper into tiers in the expansion, but for now it's looking pretty decent.