Do you feel Blizzard even pays attention to player trends?

[Sliske]

I think you would have to be extremely naive to believe that Blizzard's CMs and GMs aren't actively taking in information from players and relaying it to the rest of the staff.

A billion dollar company doesn't just fumble around, bumping into walls and hoping for the best.

[hakujinbakasama]

Well, I wouldn't be so harsh, because like it or not: The game has had up to 12 million subs and still has over 7 after 10 years. and that with competitors, that not only have a bigger franchise behind them (SW and LotR) but the designers of those MMos has ALL the chances to "learn" from WoWs "mistakes". Yet...SW failed horribly (until it went F2P)

So..fair enough, people can cry "wha wha..wha..they lost subs" all they want, but fact is: NOBODY does it more sucessfully after 10 years. And forgive them if they don't take every single suggestion from people on forums...in fact..I sometimes wonder if other MMos failed BECAUSE they tried to listen to waht WoW fans would do if they ran the game.

The great thing is...no matter what happens, people can ridicule it.

They gain subs? Oh..just because Justin Bieber is popular doesn't mean he is good
They lose subs? Oh..it is because they are idiots and don't listen

I would say "listening" is their problem... or maybe it's hearing... or comprehension... fuck I don't know. (blizzard)

As far as others go, I'm going to say that listening to the players isn't most likely their issue. What is going to be their issue is MONEYS! Rift was cool in a way but extremely clunky. This is where most of them fail. They do not get their most important shit together from the start and that's generally the combat system. Say what you want about graphics for WoW all these years later, they refined the shit out of their combat. It might not be the best or meet every taste, but it's very fluid and polished. Most mmos feel like you're controlling Micheal J Fox. The animations for combat or even simple things like jumping is just awful and awkward. Which is just damn dumb when you take 1.5 milliseconds to remember THAT is what your players will be staring at for 185641245 hours of game play.

Aion was breathtakingly beautiful when it came out. But it suffered from stupidly painful grind sessions and clunky crafting. Star Wars suffered from 10 years too late bitches!

WoW's biggest problem is that they've created all of these features in order to keep subscriptions where are almost always utilized as SOLO GAME PLAY! And ideally, people start to question paying $15 a month for a SPMMORPG. (Single Player mmorpg) Everything is DOMINATED on forces most players have zero control over, server time, server population, real life time and availability, and even faction. By the time a player knows they're boned they're usually so fully invested in their character(s) that they aren't going to just pack up shop and move over... more so if they don't really know what their missing.

If Blizzard is a business and money is thier game, their fucking focus should have been keeping players subscribed. RAIDS are not a solution to that. You can't basically hand them race cars though the leveling process and then expect them to raid the same content for 12 months... more so when a huge portion of your population only dabbles in it.

[hakujinbakasama]

I think you would have to be extremely naive to believe that Blizzard's CMs and GMs aren't actively taking in information from players and relaying it to the rest of the staff.

A billion dollar company doesn't just fumble around, bumping into walls and hoping for the best.

Real Money Auction House and Paid Transfers from PvE to PvP servers is on line 1 for you.

To expand and provide an anology...

When Fox News says "Recent polls show" my only response is "STOP ONLY POLLING PEOPLE IN YOUR OFFICES ASSHOLES!"
That's how I feel about Blizzard listening to feedback.

[Deleted]

I think you're sort of imprinting here a bit. It's now 7 months later which would reasonably mean there is less people doing that content. While you started with healers in 525, people at this stage are either burnt out, frustrated, or just looking for easy street. My argument, if I was forced to make one, is that considering they are removing the heirlooms come 6.0, there is a multi-layered barrier to getting one for those who would start now. Everything from your server, time availability, to the RNG hinders you. My frustration isn't that it takes work but that "work" is a misleading term as what is more important in all of this is a supply of willing people.

In reality, for me in particular as only for example, I'm not getting much in the way of LFR in at the 6:30 am - 9:30 am central hours this late in the expansion. Beyond that one of the days in the week is usually off limits due to maintenance or some bs authentication issue. I'm fine with that. It doesn't really bother me that much. You can't get everything in an MMO. I can't go back and have my true spirit wolf pet on my Hunter either.

What bothers me is that this doesn't work for me because of how Blizzard structures things acting as if their player-base isn't going to choose option A and then move on. I'm bothered that their stance is that they are once again going to remove something from the game because they feel we've had enough time. Example, where the fuck is my Plagued Proto Drake?

Not imprinting in the slightest. We didn't start 7 months ago, it was much more recently and most of us who have stuck it out as long as this were used to slow heroic progression through previous expansions and are here more for the social side of things. The frustrating part is having to train up new players when others leave after 3-4 weeks. My main has been parked locked-out on Garrosh for over a month and I just play my alt while we get another couple of players geared enough. We are taking it easy but certainly not easy street.

You are starting very late and if you can't commit to raid then that's your issue. You're not limited by your server though - you can raid cross-realm now. We take cross-realm players from time to time. There are 7 million WoW players, apparently, and even allowing for just the ones in your region it should be possible to find a raid you can take part in? If not I don't know what Blizz can do. There are items/achieves in the game that require commitment and/or good luck as you say and it's not compulsory that everybody who wants them can get them. I don't know whether they should stop heirlooms at 6.0 or not. I've read that even players who have been farming Garrosh since the start have terrible luck and have few items or duplicate items of little value (ie two intellect shields...), despite the bad luck compensation Blizz implemented. I don't expect to get an heirloom. It'd be nice if I do but won't feel disadvantaged if I don't.

[Jester Joe]

Real Money Auction House and Paid Transfers from PvE to PvP servers is on line 1 for you.

To expand and provide an anology...

When Fox News says "Recent polls show" my only response is "STOP ONLY POLLING PEOPLE IN YOUR OFFICES ASSHOLES!"
That's how I feel about Blizzard listening to feedback.

They removed the RMAH because people complained, and you know what? People complained about it being removed. So I wouldn't consider it just fumbling around and not listening.

[fixx]

Real Money Auction House and Paid Transfers from PvE to PvP servers is on line 1 for you.

RMAH was a test and definitely "hoping for the best" to see if a payment model that is hybrid between subscription and micro transactions would work. And it's a proven business model considering whole industries run from taking small cut from countless transactions. Problem is that D3 was the wrong game to try it on because AH breaks the essence of the series which is looting random stuff.

Paid server transfers on the other hand is a win-win situation... It brings Blizzard money and is something players asked for, so I don't see what's the problem.

[hakujinbakasama]

Of course you (and I) don't know. What we call their problem might be their biggest asset. 20 years of making good games proves that. They definitely don't have a problem. The players have the problem. I mean...if they make Diablo 2 and it sells 4.5 million copies and then make Diablo 3 and it sells over 10 million copies but people keep insisting it is a shit game...there really is no arguing with it. Sorry if you don't like the game, I have bought about 20 shitty games in my kife. Don't buy their games then unless you have tested them and don't buy the hype. Be an educated customer. But do you expect Blizzard to feel sorry? No, they say "Thank you" to the tune of 300 000 000 dollars. And as far as I can see still listened and re-vamped major parts for RoS.

That's a measure issue and trying to get someone to beak "the mold" and see the philosophical point is like trying to teach Helen Keller. D3 sold a SHIT TON the first few weeks. ANYONE remember the fallout??? Anyone??? No one brings that up. D2 sold a lot given the era it was released, Starcraft more so. How's that SC2 expansion doing fred? Their retention on players is at about 50% for expansions.

Oddly enough, player retention for D3 in the first 2-4 months was only 60% I believe. The numbers of active players was actually awful, to the point where there was nothing but cheers when Jay Wilson left. So, in a very serious way, the argument would be that Blizzard has been riding the coat tales of Blizzard North and in reality they sell a shit ton on Name Recognition but that doesn't mean their good. If they were "good" then they'd have better player retention.

Also, you can't really "test" games. Blizzard sorta bullshits that. D3 is a lot like WoW where most of the game is focused on max level. You don't get to sample that in Starter Editions or Demos. And trust me, RoS is still about 2 major systems away from making sense.

- - - Updated - - -

They removed the RMAH because people complained, and you know what? People complained about it being removed. So I wouldn't consider it just fumbling around and not listening.

It's more because they only half-ass it. The removal of the AH is great but they implemented a BOA system on everything. So they once again "fixed" a problem by creating another. I'm convinced they just walked down the hall and asked the WoW Dev team what they should do.

- - - Updated - - -

Paid server transfers on the other hand is a win-win situation... It brings Blizzard money and is something players asked for, so I don't see what's the problem.

I'm assuming this is in reply to my comment about the PvE to PvP transfers. I cannot do that justice. If you really want it explained I suggest you go google the term and look at all of 10000 pages of "DO NOT WANT" on the mothership. There was ample testimonials of what it would do and how it was not a benefit. People were freaked out when Death Knights were in Development because PvP servers did not want to be flooded with DKs running rampant as a shortcut though most of the leveling. LFD made the whole thing worse. That's a debate STILL going on.

[Tekkommo]

Is Justin Bieber the best singer because he has the most fans

lol wut, how the fuck does he have the most fans?

Idiot.

OP you are whining over nothing, it's never been easier to get geared for end game. It used to be much worse and I think it is too easy these days. The cloak is not hard to get, yes it takes some time, but it is not long and it is a goal to achieve, you sound like the typical WoW player these days where you want everything handed to you on day 1.

[Tenjen]

yes they do.

But customers say a lot, are on different fences and want different things. many and most are contradictory.

what blizz does is go with a direction that best serves the game. But at anything they're going to have to shut off the people who wanted the exact opposite (and there will always will be such people) or wanted something else.

Also the structure they've gone with is less "no child left behind" and more "each person has a different place to go to".

[Jokerfiend]

The PuG scene in MMOs, has been and always will be complete trash. A good guild is where every player should be, but LFR destroyed the concept of a guild... LFR made everything PuGs, and took away what small shred of accountability, server only PuGs used to have, by making them cross realm!

Someone could have a gun to my head, offer me 10 million dollars and I would still refuse to ever click a button that grouped me for a raid in an MMO with a random queue.

Never once, I'm completely clean of ever having to look upon such a travesty of game design.

Wrong.

I pugged Ulduar until Yog without a guild. I never seen Alagon, nor Light's Out. Though I got to see the fight, atleast once, when it was current. I pugged most of the WOTLK without a guild, though I did do Nax and some of ICC with a guild. I skipped TOC completely.

I didn't even finish Cata, I never got to see LFR implemented.

So no, you are wrong pugging TBC and WOTLK was awesome. Vanilla and Cata had arguably the worst raiding requirements in this game. Vanilla was better than Cata though no one pugged AQ40 and beyond.

[hakujinbakasama]

You are starting very late and if you can't commit to raid then that's your issue.

Ok...

1. The cloak takes 2 months.
2. The cloak for nearly everyone I've seen is a requirement.
3. The issue with cloaks is ACTUALLY GETTING INTO the LFR on a restricted time scheduel.

My issue is NOT committing to a raid. That's not my problem or point. My problem was the you are FORCED due to player trends to do something and Blizzard acts like that either doesn't happen or you don't have to. Well.. no obviously you don't have to, but is it realistic that you'll succeed otherwise? That was my point of wanting to see their numbers if they exist or their out of the office perception. When they post tweets or comments they act like they are trudging along in all of these "systems" we're expected to use and I really don't believe anymore they have any touch with reality.

It's fine if you're not going to get something... again Plague Proto, but it's more obnoxious when they nonchalantly are just like "just do it on another character too! and hurry up! We're removing it all come 6.0 SOONtm"

- - - Updated - - -

OP you are whining over nothing, it's never been easier to get geared for end game. It used to be much worse and I think it is too easy these days. The cloak is not hard to get, yes it takes some time, but it is not long and it is a goal to achieve, you sound like the typical WoW player these days where you want everything handed to you on day 1.

Easier because LFR is sleep mode doesn't actually mean something if 50% of your play time or more is sitting in the que... if it ever pops for you. Oh, and god forbid you get into one that's partially completed!

[fixx]

I'm assuming this is in reply to my comment about the PvE to PvP transfers. I cannot do that justice. If you really want it explained I suggest you go google the term and look at all of 10000 pages of "DO NOT WANT" on the mothership. There was ample testimonials of what it would do and how it was not a benefit. People were freaked out when Death Knights were in Development because PvP servers did not want to be flooded with DKs running rampant as a shortcut though most of the leveling. LFD made the whole thing worse. That's a debate STILL going on.

Vocal minority crying "DO NOT WANT" like a fucking four year old baby without any good reason ever presented is exactly the kind of thing that Blizzard listens and decides against. And regardles of the imaginary testimonials nothing changed after the paid transfer was allowed.

I personally leveled 1-70 in a PvP realm during TBC on my very first opposite faction toon after few years of one-sided experience and died fewer times there than in PvE realm before even though I started in a new realm with no guild, no resources and no prior knowledge of the areas or quests in a realm where other faction had about 2:1 advantage in numbers. Leveling in PvP realms being inherently much harder or any different is a myth.

[hakujinbakasama]

Vocal minority crying "DO NOT WANT" like a fucking four year old baby without any good reason ever presented is exactly the kind of thing that Blizzard listens and decides against. And regardles of the imaginary testimonials nothing changed after the paid transfer was allowed.

I personally leveled 1-70 in a PvP realm during TBC on my very first horde toon after playing alliance for years and died fewer times there than in PvE realm before even though I started in a new realm with no guild, no resources and no prior knowledge of horde areas or quests in a realm where alliance had about 2:1 advantage in numbers. Leveling in PvP realms being inherently much harder or any different is a myth.

*cough* Bullshit *cough*
Well maybe not who knows. I leveled on Dragonmaw where did you level? I can tell you that SERVER mattered. Maybe you didn't have a problem... what was your ratio? What was your server status? Dragonmaw was in the top 5 for Raid Progression US. The Alliance was constantly competing in the top 3 for US PvP. STV was a fucking killing field. I believe it was 2:1 Alliance. Those things matter. If you want to say it had ZERO effect, go look at server status post the change. You can see a steady drop in PvP server rankings. The Highend players did a lot of migration due to flooding up to the point where I'm sure most of them quit by Cata. When the top PvPers were not on board with the idea it isn't the typical bullshit cry babies forum posters try to make it out to be. Just like it was the majority of mid range raiders who didn't want LFR for the exact reasons it caused. Or the Changes to 10 mans... or the Shared lockouts.

[fixx]

Well maybe not who knows. I leveled on Dragonmaw where did you level? I can tell you that SERVER mattered. Maybe you didn't have a problem...

Exactly my point. Blizzard doesn't make design changes based on how it might affect one or two realms, but how it affects the game as a whole.

The realm in question had a population between low and medium and well below halfway of all EU realms in raid progression, but I was outnumbered 2:1.

[Banzhe]

Obligatory "Not a QQ"

The Blue tweet on the main page about Heirlooms really drove home the point to me that Blizzard either doesn't pay any attention to player trends or flat out ignores them.

It wasn't until Cata I actually felt "punished" for not playing 100% dire focused the whole expansion. I'm going to generalize for a moment and speak for the "rule" not the exceptions here. It seems that if you didn't start the expansion and push content with 1 character the whole time than your pretty boned. If you're wanting at this point to break into SoO you're most likely going to look at your pathway and realize it's not fucking worth it.

Legendary cloak - Mandatory
Random invite - 540+ ilvl Mandatory
Linked Achievements - Often Mandatory

To me, their retort to all of this is "The options and tools are there! LFR, Flex.... uh... LFR, You can do it!" Well, sure I suppose if you could LFR. The wait times are often fucking painful. There isn't a real "success" and you barely can say one "grows" as a player or anywhere near proficient in LFR.

I understand that it is easier if you have a solid base of support, ie other players and friends who are willing to go with you, but in reality considering seemingly EVERYONE is having attendance issues at this point, support is hard to find.

This isn't a complaint about LFR, or grinding, or any one thing specific. It just baffles me that Blizzard seems to deny this happens. I know it isn't entirely on them that a large section of their base gets bored and wonders off leaving another section sort of boned but shouldn't they have put SOMETHING in by now? I might only "feel" that it was different during Wrath because of everything being a bit slower paced and isolated to your specific server. I don't know. To me, it really is like they live in their own reality where what the majority end up doing isn't their fault.

Not sure I got this across as well as I wanted.

Legendary cloak - Mandatory - Not mandatory at all unless you are talking "higher" end progression, which you aren't for obvious reasons

Random invite - 540+ ilvl Mandatory - Idiot society within the game, not much else to say, same types of players asking for 560+ for norm Garrosh, the high gear is needed due to how many mistakes they make.

Linked Achievements - Often Mandatory - Sadly yes, as soon as a reasonable amount of time have passed on X content, this is arguably unavoidable.

I'm not going to comment on the rest of your post as it sounds like you've done what you wanted to do throughout the expansion, but now feel angry at blizzard for not getting your cloak, Garrosh loom and.., well I don't know, everything else?

[StationaryHawk]

They've been making it progressively easier to access raiding content. The problem lies in the community that wants above necessary gear from players for their own convenience.

[Deleted]

Paid server transfers on the other hand is a win-win situation... It brings Blizzard money and is something players asked for, so I don't see what's the problem.

Actually paid Transfers from PvE to PvP servers was something they promised they'd never do and was a slap in the face to all those who leveled on PvP servers. Along with allowing players to create characters on both factions on a PvP server. Some things will never be forgiven.

Basically they can't win. There isn't single player position. Player demands are varied and often contradictory. They've probably learned not to make any more promises though.

[fixx]

It's an old argument because it's the truth. WoW might have 200 million subscribers and it could still be a steaming pile of shit. Subscriber numbers mean nothing, especially in the case of WoW which seems to design content as if they only have around 100k subscribers.

If any game (like for example WoW) has the highest number of players still after ten years and all other competitors in the same bracket of games are long dead they must be doing something right. Or do you disagree with common sense?

And what do you mean by designing for 100k people?

Ok, ok... Lady Gaga has more fans. You seem to only further proove my point. You're so clever.

Peanuts compared to Madonna, Michael Jackson or The Beatles... Only point you're proving is that you lost the point and the map while ago.

[Velshin]

Obligatory "Not a QQ"

The Blue tweet on the main page about Heirlooms really drove home the point to me that Blizzard either doesn't pay any attention to player trends or flat out ignores them.

It wasn't until Cata I actually felt "punished" for not playing 100% dire focused the whole expansion. I'm going to generalize for a moment and speak for the "rule" not the exceptions here. It seems that if you didn't start the expansion and push content with 1 character the whole time than your pretty boned. If you're wanting at this point to break into SoO you're most likely going to look at your pathway and realize it's not fucking worth it.

Legendary cloak - Mandatory
Random invite - 540+ ilvl Mandatory
Linked Achievements - Often Mandatory

To me, their retort to all of this is "The options and tools are there! LFR, Flex.... uh... LFR, You can do it!" Well, sure I suppose if you could LFR. The wait times are often fucking painful. There isn't a real "success" and you barely can say one "grows" as a player or anywhere near proficient in LFR.

I understand that it is easier if you have a solid base of support, ie other players and friends who are willing to go with you, but in reality considering seemingly EVERYONE is having attendance issues at this point, support is hard to find.

This isn't a complaint about LFR, or grinding, or any one thing specific. It just baffles me that Blizzard seems to deny this happens. I know it isn't entirely on them that a large section of their base gets bored and wonders off leaving another section sort of boned but shouldn't they have put SOMETHING in by now? I might only "feel" that it was different during Wrath because of everything being a bit slower paced and isolated to your specific server. I don't know. To me, it really is like they live in their own reality where what the majority end up doing isn't their fault.

Not sure I got this across as well as I wanted.

As the above poster said this is not Blizzard fault but some players own fault...I mean Blizzard can't fix some players attitude the link achiev or no invite policy is created by the players not Blizzard. Blizzard didn't create the achievement system for that reason. It's just some players fault which Blizzard can't fix. The only solution is to have as many options as possible in the game and even then you will always have some ppl misuse it or exploit it or misunderstand the system.

For example today I read in the trade chat some players asking something like: LFM for Garrosh normal item lvl 600+ or no invite....see my point? how is that Blizzard fault? really?

[Deleted]

Ok...

1. The cloak takes 2 months.
2. The cloak for nearly everyone I've seen is a requirement.
3. The issue with cloaks is ACTUALLY GETTING INTO the LFR on a restricted time scheduel.

My issue is NOT committing to a raid. That's not my problem or point. My problem was the you are FORCED due to player trends to do something and Blizzard acts like that either doesn't happen or you don't have to. Well.. no obviously you don't have to, but is it realistic that you'll succeed otherwise? That was my point of wanting to see their numbers if they exist or their out of the office perception. When they post tweets or comments they act like they are trudging along in all of these "systems" we're expected to use and I really don't believe anymore they have any touch with reality.

It's fine if you're not going to get something... again Plague Proto, but it's more obnoxious when they nonchalantly are just like "just do it on another character too! and hurry up! We're removing it all come 6.0 SOONtm"

Ok so there are the problems with your peculiar situation and a general problem that MoP is well past it's sell-by date and people aren't playing it so much.

Given that Blizz clearly intend the Garrosh heirlooms to be a time-limited reward for completing the raid, how do you think Blizz should respond to the player trend?

Two ways they've responded that I can think of are that i) they've introduced cross-realm raiding for SoO and ii) they've dropped the price of MoP to $10.