Tall Poppy Syndrome against raiders.

[Lethey Alexandros]

Bandwagon resentment, at some point it became mainstream to hate anyone who has achieved more than you have in any outlet. Pro sports, gaming, financial stability, health, etc.

Person A has more than person B therefore person A must be an unpleasant person.

Since the end of wrath and the start of cata but more so with the introduction of LFR at the end of cata, I have watched the server population of my server becoming increasingly more hostile to raiders and the thing is, the raiders on my server are not running around asking to be praised or worshiped, they simply just post a guild recruitment post to find a new member for a raid team and the flames come on.

It is like watching an extremist feminist rally, there is not rhyme, reason, or method to what they do other than I suppose they are aiming to find some sort of self validation in attacking the raid population of the server.

[Xeerah]

Just 1 thing 2 say:

Ur so special "snowflakes" are being spit on, if they try to help - for example met a Warlock these days who had Spirit gems i mean plz Spirit
So I wrote nicely: "Dont take this by offend but spirit isnt doing any good for Warlock - spirit gives healer mana regen and most hybrid classes hit but warlocks dont get any of this - its not a good stat" (on whisper)
Guess what? Y he enraged

U can give tipps what u want, if u even dare to offer 1 your attacked verbally in seconds

[Lumineus]

Right, but the post I quoted said raiding at that level isn't a hobby but a sickness.

And it is. When you start doing a dozen alt runs of normal mode just to funnel gear for your double shift marathon run at world first, that's textbook obsessive behavior. I cannot imagine that this is the way the game is intended to be played. But that's not even the worst thing, it's the ripple effects, the trickle-down insanity, if you will. The strats and composition of these kills becomes law because of all the copycats and hangers-on. The class-stacking they do to squeak by DPS checks is actively harmful to game balance, as are their unfiltered comments. Bring your alt Warlock to raid with Blood Legion, Mages need not apply!

[Deleted]

Now days raiders are shouted down as 'elitists' or 'special snowflakes' by those who don't raid. It's really a disgusting environment when you have people saying raiders should F off and die simply for playing a game.

the ONLY people who are being called Elitist or Special Snowflakes, ARE the Elitist or Special Snowflakes of the raiding community, and this is because they are the most vocal about what they want or dont want. Have you ever taken the time to speak to "raiders" in game ? you will find that a lot of them are just normal people enjoying the game.

it is just a shame that the assholes of the raiding community make it seem like all the members of the raiding community are like this. Once again as in real life a minority of people tarnish the image of a group of people.

[RapBreon]

And it is. When you start doing a dozen alt runs of normal mode just to funnel gear for your double shift marathon run at world first, that's textbook obsessive behavior.

Question for you. Are people who spend their days training for the Olympics obsessive?

[Post]

And it is. When you start doing a dozen alt runs of normal mode just to funnel gear for your double shift marathon run at world first, that's textbook obsessive behavior. I cannot imagine that this is the way the game is intended to be played. But that's not even the worst thing, it's the ripple effects, the trickle-down insanity, if you will. The strats and composition of these kills becomes law because of all the copycats and hangers-on. The class-stacking they do to squeak by DPS checks is actively harmful to game balance, as are their unfiltered comments. Bring your alt Warlock to raid with Blood Legion, Mages need not apply!

No, it is not a sickness to spend a lot of time on your hobby. Are there people who are addicted to games? Yup. Can you say every raider at the top level has OCD? No.

[Deleted]

Question for you. Are people who spend their days training for the Olympics obsessive?

That's a bad question assuming you wanted to give an example of commendable effort put towards a cause. Olympics have been know trigger obsessive behavior to the point of ruining peoples lives and health. One thing is keeping your body fit but the amount of I'd even say self-torture the participants do these days is way over healthy competition.

[Overdispersion]

I've never experienced this behaviour you're speaking of.

[Lumineus]

Question for you. Are people who spend their days training for the Olympics obsessive?

Absolutely yes. I think you have to be a little cracked to get that far. This is especially true of gymnasts. And for what recognition? The only reason anyone remembers Michael Phelps is because they took his medals over marijuana, which isn't even performance-enhancing unless there's like, an Olympic medal for writing rock music or something that I don't know about. I guess I don't really see how the Olympic games, a highly commercialized "amateur" sports event (except for basketball, and hockey, and...) contributes to society either, aside from causing massive controversy every time they're held in Russia, to say nothing of the horror stories about Soviet era training. Aren't the world championships for all of these sports inherently more definitive anyway?

[Yarathir]

Case in point of these replies.

You are using radfeminist tactics now.


"We're being persecuted for being female!"
"No, you're being criticized because of your stupid ideas."
"See? These dirty men oppressing me just prove that the Patriarchy and misogyny are at play here! Just more proof!".


Basically, you can only agree, because if you disagree, you only prove their point. That is what you are doing now, and it's pretty sad, because no one is going to play that game with you, because you're wrong.

[Deleted]

if you want to be looked-up, be top #1 or forget about it

[Post]

You are using radfeminist tactics now.


"We're being persecuted for being female!"
"No, you're being criticized because of your stupid ideas."
"See? These dirty men oppressing me just prove that the Patriarchy and misogyny are at play here! Just more proof!".


Basically, you can only agree, because if you disagree, you only prove their point. That is what you are doing now, and it's pretty sad, because no one is going to play that game with you, because you're wrong.

Not really, he's asking what's up with the hate. People are then telling him why they feel that way. They aren't saying "the hate doesn't exist" they're saying it does. It'd be like people telling feminists "Yeah we're oppressing women, but we have a reason to".

[Yarathir]

You have no idea what you're talking about. Of course not EVERY SINGLE PERSON looked up to raiders - but lots did, because they had better gear, better output, better effectiveness in both PvE and PvP, better looks, more health, and almost certainly more skill.

You sound a little.. what's the word.. butthurt? about the whole thing.

I remember when I first started playing, going into Darnassus for the first time and there was a huge horde raid in progress, with spells going off everywhere, people in amazing gear doing cool things, and I thought to myself, "Damn. That's awesome! I'm going to raid my little socks off and get stuff like that, and do whatever I want!"

What's wrong with having something to aspire to? Is it just because you and people like you are unable to do so? /shrugs

Is there something wrong with this? Is there something unnatural about it? Not really.

Maybe in real life, that would make sense. But people are not going to admire you for what armor you managed to obtain by pissing away time killing bosses in a game. That's not an actual accomplishment. The same way people won't go "wow, you mention that you killed the Lich King on 25 heroic before it was nerfed on your résumé? I will totally hire you now.".


Achieving things in games, which are meant for entertainment, are not reason for admiration. At best, the top 5-10 might be admired for their skill, but then again, they are also sponsored.

- - - Updated - - -

Not really, he's asking what's up with the hate. People are then telling him why they feel that way. They aren't saying "the hate doesn't exist" they're saying it does.

Yes he is. He's asking "what's up with the hate.". People are then telling him it isn't hate, but him expecting that they will admire his achievements, and them not living up to it because they are not playing the game to amuse him. Then he posts a "This just proves my point."



So yeah. That's exactly what he's doing.

[SodiumChloride]

A strain of populism has become prevalent in the US in the last several years...well, pushing decade.

It's the notion that your inferiority is as good as my superiority, that your ignorance is as good as my knowledge. That your stupidity is as good as my intelligence.

That your inability is as good as my ability.

It's an absurd notion, but it's how people who are lesser help themselves sleep at night. It's better to whine than to improve, amirite?

Dude ... It's a video game. You are suppose to have fun as long as you pay your $15/month.

Inferiority, superiority ... What?!

[Banzhe]

I have been playing WoW since launch with breaks here and there however at the moment I have never seen such vitriol against people who raid. Earlier in WoW raiders were looked up to by the whole community. Even if you couldn't raid and achieve what they did you still admired them and whole servers were proud of their raiding guilds and what they achieve.

EDIT - Forget about the being admired part if you guys can't get past it. It was a personal subjective memory so lets deal with what is going on today.

Now days raiders are shouted down as 'elitists' or 'special snowflakes' by those who don't raid. It's really a disgusting environment when you have people saying raiders should F off and die simply for playing a game.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome

EDIT-
Good responses guys but lets keep the insults down, to me and everyone else.

What sort of response were you expecting to get with a post like this?

There is nothing new to it, those who have take some sense of accomplishment in what they've achieved (rightfully so), and those who haven't / can't need to somehow attempt to diminish that sense of accomplishment to feel better about where they are.

[Algore]

Nothing unusual. Of course the bottom pile of trash will concede to continuous hate, because themselves just ain't cut out.

[Post]

Maybe in real life, that would make sense. But people are not going to admire you for what armor you managed to obtain by pissing away time killing bosses in a game. That's not an actual accomplishment. The same way people won't go "wow, you mention that you killed the Lich King on 25 heroic before it was nerfed on your résumé? I will totally hire you now.".


Achieving things in games, which are meant for entertainment, are not reason for admiration. At best, the top 5-10 might be admired for their skill, but then again, they are also sponsored.

- - - Updated - - -



Yes he is. He's asking "what's up with the hate.". People are then telling him it isn't hate, but him expecting that they will admire his achievements, and them not living up to it because they are not playing the game to amuse him. Then he posts a "This just proves my point."



So yeah. That's exactly what he's doing.

No. They aren't saying "we're fine with you, stop thinking we hate you" they're saying "we hate you because raiders are generally elitist assholes". Stuff like:

"well when folks are acting like elitist assholes who all need to be super special snowflakes they are gonna get called that"

"Cause - effect. Raiders became elitist assholes, people started calling them on their shit"

"Raiding guilds weren't "looked up to" in the past, they were generally hated for one or several reasons"

Isn't saying "We don't hate you".

[Yarathir]

Yes, because this is totally about people being jealous of others' accomplishments in a damn game, and not about those aforementioned others expecting to be worshiped and treated like gods because of their accomplishments.



Pfffaahahaha. Oh man.

- - - Updated - - -

No. They aren't saying "we're fine with you, stop thinking we hate you" they're saying "we hate you because raiders are generally elitist assholes". Stuff like:

"well when folks are acting like elitist assholes who all need to be super special snowflakes they are gonna get called that"

"Cause - effect. Raiders became elitist assholes, people started calling them on their shit"

"Raiding guilds weren't "looked up to" in the past, they were generally hated for one or several reasons"

Isn't saying "We don't hate you".

The OP mentioned tall poppy syndrome, and that that must be the reason. What those posts did was just helping him out of the dream. He complained about not being looked up to for his "accomplishments" in a video game, and people reacted accordingly. And that is exactly what is being done: people being called on their shit. No one is going "screw raiders. They should be gone. Blizzard: remove everything but LFR because raiders suck!". You're not being persecuted because you are a raider, but because you rub it in everyone's face and want, nay demand, that people pay attention to you because of it.


And that last one is so blatantly intentionally cut off from the rest of the post. That post was actually informative. It explained why guilds were hated, not just "lol screw raid guilds.".


And in the end, if he was offended by that, he was probably one of those people. I mean, all those posts you mentioned are not saying "OP you are such a little snowflake.". It's explaining that people aren't jealous of the accomplishments of some raiders, but sick of their need to flaunt it and get validation in turn.

[Rizendragon]

TLDR: Blizzard made the game more accessible. This translated into everyone seeing everyone else as equals (this is both a good and bad thing, dependent on individual situations).

LFR will NEVER be on par with heroic/mythic achievements. To say they are is idiocy...

[Djuntas]

I sure tough alot off the top players I looked up to deserved it.

The one I admired the most over the years was a paladin Kolorian, who managed multi-glad, leaded a guild that killed Kiljaeden etc belive pre-nerf w/e.

Later that guy joins Paragon inn tier11 as a mage.

Also many players off Loot ftw was awesome, especially there GM; That guy did monstrous DPS.

Also, all the awesome people from <Imba> back inn Vanilla on my server who managed high gear inn naxx40. I got to see just what that does inn WSG, when Might of menethil insane warrior joined, and I was healing.

....The coolest thing Ive ever seen, even if BM hunter was OP, was Munken back inn Sunwell (SK gaming ftw!), when they streamed there world fast attempts on Bruttalius; He DC'd mid-fight and returned to still be 1# DPS...He broke above 4k DPS....insane. I belive that was like the first live stream on a raid inn wow ever even?