Is Raiding Really The #1 Allure of WoW?

[Deleted]

What ho,

With the development cycles unexpectedly slowing down rather than speeding up as was often promised, I can't help but feel a little bit frustrated with the way things are. I respect everyone at Blizzard, and the complexity of developing a new expansion. But being a fan of WoW can be very difficult at times.

A reoccurring joke these days is the slightly cynical "it'll cost us one raid tier". But I'm almost wondering if it's the other way around.

Does the raids of every new expansion cost us too much? Is too much time spent on getting the normal treadmill people have come to expect in there, and too little time on everything else?

What are your thoughts?

[Deleted]

For me personally there's nothing in WoW which is worth a sub fee except raiding.

[fixx]

WoW is a game best known for well polished, balanced and relatively bug-free raiding. That's why recent competition (GW2, ESO) rather focus on PvP instead where they have better chances at making their mark in MMORPG scene.

[Xayl1]

I have to say I think so.

[Deleted]

For me personally there's nothing in WoW which is worth a sub fee except raiding.

Not just you, but that's because blizzard have made everything that isn't raiding completely trivial.

For whatever reason* blizzard have focused almost all efforts on keeping hardcore raiding alive, despite the obvious indifference of the vast bulk of the playerbase.

Think of all the compelling gameplay elements that wow used to have - challenging 5 mans (no, not a footrace using invisibility potions) a dangerous world to explore, long levelling times with a reward each level, world pvp, long assed quest chains that meant something, long term rep grinds with rewards, crafting that took serious farming but rewarded well if done etc etc All of that excellent compelling content has gone the way of the Dodo in the quest to justify the raiding budget.

About the only meaningful thing to do other than raid is pet battles, and that's by all accounts a happy accident.

If you asked the playerbase at large which would they rather have - raids or TBC style 5 mans, raids would go bye bye, I guarantee it.


*My own theory is that blizzards dev team see the game as a way to finance their own raiding hobby!

[fixx]

*My own theory is that blizzards dev team see the game as a way to finance their own raiding hobby!

People aim to make games they'd like to play themselves.

That applies to every single game designer ever born, not just for Blizzard.

[Deleted]

People aim to make games they'd like to play themselves.

That applies to every single game designer ever born, not just for Blizzard.

Aye! It's a shame about the millions of people who don't want to raid, the shareholders who lose out via lost subs etc though.....

The lightbulb moment for me was when i heard one of the Devs talk about how "as wow has gotten older, the players have jobs and wives and children etc etc" when it was fully apparent they meant themselves and they were changing the game to fit their own schedules. lol

[Deleted]

Not just you, but that's because blizzard have made everything that isn't raiding completely trivial.

For whatever reason* blizzard have focused almost all efforts on keeping hardcore raiding alive, despite the obvious indifference of the vast bulk of the playerbase.

Think of all the compelling gameplay elements that wow used to have - challenging 5 mans (no, not a footrace using invisibility potions) a dangerous world to explore, long levelling times with a reward each level, world pvp, long assed quest chains that meant something, long term rep grinds with rewards, crafting that took serious farming but rewarded well if done etc etc All of that excellent compelling content has gone the way of the Dodo in the quest to justify the raiding budget.

About the only meaningful thing to do other than raid is pet battles, and that's by all accounts a happy accident.

If you asked the playerbase at large which would they rather have - raids or TBC style 5 mans, raids would go bye bye, I guarantee it.


*My own theory is that blizzards dev team see the game as a way to finance their own raiding hobby!

Raiding is a huuuge part of the game and I can guarantee that if the playerbase could choose, raids would still exist. Even more now than ever with Raid Finder being so popular. There's a huge chunk of the playerbase that's interested in raiding, they are the ones doing LFR but don't have the required time to invest in normal/heroic raiding, they might not even be interested in looking up their classes optimal rotation or gemming, but they still want to see the content and raid. Putting them in a dungeon finder TBC style heroic would end up really really bad.

[Phuongvi]

just remove the loot and you'll get to raid

I don't know if it need more development than it does, but still, raiding now is like a 5 men dungeons ... not epic at all

[fixx]

If you asked the playerbase at large which would they rather have - raids or TBC style 5 mans, raids would go bye bye, I guarantee it.

Aye! It's a shame about the millions of people who don't want to raid, the shareholders who lose out via lost subs etc though.....

Most of those who dont like raiding dont like any instances or group play and play WoW for the solo play aspects (questing) only. I have few IRL friends who sub for 2-3 months after expansion drops, quests few characters to level cap and then unsub again. That's not really a problem for Blizzard or shareholders either, because expansions are pretty expensive.

[Deleted]

Cata heroics, and the huge outcry they caused the playerbase to nerf them, say hi. <3

They don't say hi quite as loudly as the hi raiding gets. <3

- - - Updated - - -

Most of those who dont like raiding dont like any instances or group play and play WoW for the solo play aspects (questing) only. I have few IRL friends who sub for 2-3 months after expansion drops, quests few characters to level cap and then unsub again. That's not really a problem for Blizzard or shareholders either, because expansions are pretty expensive.

But if questing took a lot longer, they'd sub for longer, which means more money for the shareholders and a happier playerbase at large.

- - - Updated - - -

Raiding is a huuuge part of the game and I can guarantee that if the playerbase could choose, raids would still exist. Even more now than ever with Raid Finder being so popular. There's a huge chunk of the playerbase that's interested in raiding, they are the ones doing LFR but don't have the required time to invest in normal/heroic raiding, they might not even be interested in looking up their classes optimal rotation or gemming, but they still want to see the content and raid. Putting them in a dungeon finder TBC style heroic would end up really really bad.

This is arse about face.

Before LFR, virtually no one raided. They did all the other content instead. That content got removed and LFR is now the only meaningful thing to do.

Put other content back in and LFR will tank.

[Bigbamboozal]

I'm of the mind that this entire thread is outdated by numbers released by blizzard a while back.
Nope. It's ALL about pet battles now.
Seriously.
The number of players who did a pet battle today, beats the ever loving shit out of raiding, or pvp in any form.
I found that to be quite shocking.

[Deleted]

I don't know if it need more development than it does, but still, raiding now is like a 5 men dungeons ... not epic at all

That is very true sir!
Put in the old concept of raiding as it was in Vanilla and TBC maybe sprinkled with a few hardmodes ^^ And by old concept is that there is one difficulty, not 10 which enables all to do it. Keep it epic and mystic and so that you have to actually do a big effort to experience it.

[Deleted]

That is very true sir!
Put in the old concept of raiding as it was in Vanilla and TBC maybe sprinkled with a few hardmodes ^^ And by old concept is that there is one difficulty, not 10 which enables all to do it. Keep it epic and mystic and so that you have to actually do a big effort to experience it.

The problem with this idea for raiders is that because the budget for raiding will be slashed unless everyone gets to raid, you'll only get two raids per expac.

[fixx]

But if questing took a lot longer, they'd sub for longer, which means more money for the shareholders and a happier playerbase at large.

That's a pretty big if...

Considering doing all quests without breaks in MoP for example takes less than 24 hours if you're geared, maybe 30 hours undergeared. Now if you play one hour per day you'll be done in a month, with 30 minutes a day you'll be done in two months... Now armed with the little fact that world map complete with terrain, NPCs and quests is the most time-consuming part of WoW expansion making do a little bit of math how much more content Blizzard would have to do to double the subscription time of single player gamers? How much more they'd have to pay for that extra one or two months of subscription?

Nope.

What Blizzard mathed out long ago (and you can do today pretty easily) is that they get far better return for their invesment by getting raiders to repeat the same instance over and over again for extra subscription months without doing any extra content compared to getting single player gamers subscribe longer.

[Nerraw]

I probably wouldn't be playing right now if it wasn't for raiding.

[Ghostile]

Without raid content, I'd play something else.
would have probably never touched an MMO without WoWs raid content.

[Deleted]

That's a pretty big if...

Considering doing all quests without breaks in MoP for example takes less than 24 hours if you're geared, maybe 30 hours undergeared. Now if you play one hour per day you'll be done in a month, with 30 minutes a day you'll be done in two months... Now armed with the little fact that world map complete with terrain, NPCs and quests is the most time-consuming part of WoW expansion making do a little bit of math how much more content Blizzard would have to do to double the subscription time of single player gamers? How much more they'd have to pay for that extra one or two months of subscription?

Nope.

Erm they could just make the same quests take 12 days /played. Vanilla had fewer quests than mop and it took 21 days to hit max level. There is no technical issue

What Blizzard mathed out long ago (and you can do today pretty easily) is that they get far better return for their invesment by getting raiders to repeat the same instance over and over again for extra subscription months without doing any extra content compared to getting single player gamers subscribe longer.

Can't be the case because

1) Blizzard said that all raids apart from karazhan were a complete waste of money until they put 10 man modes in at the start of wrath.

2) For most of the game, only a very tiny percentage of people raided.

The way it worked until LFR arrived is that the bulk of the playerbase pottered about questing, pvping or whatever and blizzard took their sub money and spent it on raids that only a handful enjoyed. Then their finance department asked them why they were wasting so much cash on raiding and blizzards dev teams response was to remove all content that wasn't raiding by forcing everyone into LFR.

As another poster said, right now blizzard highest rate of return would be to add abother 200 battle pets for each raid boss they could have made instead.

[Deleted]

That is very true sir!
Put in the old concept of raiding as it was in Vanilla and TBC maybe sprinkled with a few hardmodes ^^ And by old concept is that there is one difficulty, not 10 which enables all to do it. Keep it epic and mystic and so that you have to actually do a big effort to experience it.

And then the 80% of players who enjoy raiding but can't do anything more than LFR unsub. GG no re

[xenogear3]

Blizzard thinks so.
It gets rid of almost everything now, including 5 man dungeons and the quests lead to raid.

Blizzard is also crazy about the gear.
Not only the gear has 4 tier in 1 patch, but also the ilevel difference is huge.

The craft and BoE gear were as good as the normal raid gear.
I used to wear them and do a competitive dps.
Now Blizzard makes sure that if you don't raid, you do crappy dps.