Do you agree "if you don't raid, you don't need raid gear"?

[xenogear3]

Blizzard is crazy about gear lately.
The last patch creates 4 tiers. ilevel difference is 50+.

Now it tries to give LFR no tier bonus and bad looking gear.
The argument is "if you don't raid, you don't need raid gear".

Do you agree?

[Klokie]

Can you give a link to where Blizzard say that?

[Zogarth]

Gear is a tool in order to be able to defeat more bosses. LFR gives you gear in order to beat Flex. Flex gives to beat normal. Normal gives to beat Heroic. That is how it works. So as long as LFR gives gear that allows you to do Flex all is well and fine. If it gives you too good gear (overgearing Flex) it would be a problem.

[CrazyEyez315]

You only deserve rewards equal to the amount of effort you wish to put into what you do. The rewards will be there, waiting for those who deserve them. Do you deserve them? That remains to be answered by you and you alone, through action, not words.

[Deleted]

hi i'm a 7 days per week heroic raider on 7 alts every day full clear, noone else deserves any gear or else i don't have fun


this thread summed up

Infracted.

[Adramalech]

If this is because of LFR tier, then no, I don't agree.

Gear is a tool. Better gear means better chances at beating something. Primarily, that means going up in the difficulty ladder in the current raid tier.

But there are other areas of the game that become easier, or become possible to beat, with better gear. Soloing old content comes to mind. Some players are only interested in that kind of stuff. That isn't to say that the new LFR only gear and dungeon gear won't be enough, but it'll certainly take a hit in how much they can improve.

The whole notion that you don't need gear if you're not gonna do raid progress is, in my opinion, a weak excuse to justify people's disdain for LFR. If heroic (soon mythic) raids were tuned in such a way that they dropped no gear and were all about the challenge, you can bet the same people saying LFR players don't need gear would be flooding rivers with their tears over not being rewarded.

And effort. Effort isn't an argument, either. As it stands now in patch 5.4, LFR takes less effort, and as a result, it gives worse gear. You feel forced to run it for set bonuses and trinkets? Welcome to being competitive. I'm sure you wouldn't like it either to spend hours in places like Felwood farming for some consumables for a single raid night, either. Same concept, different activity. You do anything in your power to gain an edge, either you like it or not; it's what you signed up for.


In the end though, after saying all this, I really don't care about LFR dropping different gear. I lived well before LFR existed, and will continue doing so now that it'll drop worse gear. I can't say the same for other people's opinions though, and I fully expect Blizzard to receive a backlash from this in the future, even if it's unjustified for me.

[Nevcairiel]

I'm not sure where people get the notion that LFR gear will be worse. It has always been worse, similar gear as dropped in different difficulties, just with worse stats.
The only real difference is that it will look different, and that it won't have a set bonus. Both of those will not make it really all that much worse, the usefulness of sets is very random at best anyway.

The only remaining point is trinkets. Of course LFR will still have trinkets, the only difference is that it won't have the same (but worse variant of) as the higher difficulties.
Watcher said in an interview recently that the difference here will be that the LFR trinkets won't be mechanic-changing things like we see in SoO right now on many trinkets, but more "simple" trinkets.

In summary, LFR gear will always be worse, since its easier to get. Its worse today, it'll be worse in WoD. In WoD it'll just look different, too, and not be part of a set. Big deal.

Regarding the actual question in the OP -
Raid gear is not *required* if you don't raid. After all, you need to raid to get it. But it certainly helps when doing some things. Many things get easier with more health and more damage/heal/avoidance.

[Heathy]

I don't agree, raid gear simply makes all content easier, not just raid content, but quests & pvp (if you don't have pvp gear) also dungeon farming (not that there is a reason to anymore). but i don't agree, also the question is contradictory, you can't get raid gear without raiding so in that sense you'd have to raid to get it anyway, which makes the question rather baseless.

the LFR replaced heroic 5 man epic gear rewards. it used to be 5 man > heroic 5 man > raiding now its 5 man > LFR > raid but its tuned so that you can just 5 man > raid, although i would argue the ease of the lfr makes it far too easy to get a power boost for your normal raiding.

then again once you reach max level, if you don't want to raid or pvp then you might aswell give up there because thats the only way you can improve a character. so it has less to do with what you think its used for and more to do with, i want this gear because it exists.

[Granyala]

Gear is a tool you need to be ready for the next boss.
If you don't intend to face that next boss, you don't need the gear.

Whether getting gear is nice in itself is an entire other matter.

I don't agree, raid gear simply makes all content easier, not just raid content

You can beat the content without the gear. Hence you don't need it. But as you said: it's nice to have anyway.
I can't beat Garrosh HC in non raid gear. I NEED gear to be able to even stand a chance.

[hakujinbakasama]

I don't like this premise. First, I don't care about "raiding gear" what I care about is gear that allows me to do something more efficiently. It just so happens the progression in the is usually Raiding Gear.

If there was an option like that of a typical ARPG for gear itemization which allowed me to specific better, then I would steer away from raiding gear.

The problem I generally have with the conversation is how "Raiders" believe that people shouldn't be able to work for gear which would be on par with raiding gear. Or to explain that better, if I could avoid raiding, never enter raiding, but craft gear which helped me solo heroic LK then I'm all good; Take my money each month Blizzard.

However, it seems as if a huge aspect of play is alienated by "raiders" because they don't give a shit... even though they do.

[Vintersol]

If you have no drivers license, why do you need car?

[Yarathir]

I don't agree, because that would mean heroic raiders don't need gear either, as they won't progress to a harder difficulty either.

[Allarius]

also the question is contradictory, you can't get raid gear without raiding so in that sense you'd have to raid to get it anyway, which makes the question rather baseless.

Not really. There are plenty of ways to get raid level gear without ever setting foot in a raid. That's where the question comes into play. For people that DON'T raid at all, why do they need raid quality gear? You can already faceroll non-raid content with basic gear, so the question becomes why do you need/deserve gear at a level that you don't play at? It's one thing if you're incapable of completing content without it, but that's not the case.

(Not my personal opinion, just clarifying)

[Primernova]

The content should be the reward for raiding, not the gear.

You progress the story, if you're badass enough to hack it.

That, an adventure makes.

A real raider wipes their ass with gear.

[Heathy]

Ok lets say 50% of the wow player base doesn't raid, once they reach max level, run timesink isle, get full 496, do all the quests get all the achieves they want, then the only thing left is LFR or flex or normal raiding, or pvp, but they all collectivly say 'you know what i don't want to raid or pvp, so i'm basically stuck here at this power level with no real reason to progress' at that point the game loses half its player base until the next expansion, that doesn't happen though, so simply grinding the gear, for the sake of grinding it, is what keeps them playing.

you don't NEED it, the same way you don't NEED to play wow in the first place. but there are only so many avenues of progression before you run out of things that actually make your character better. perhaps its not the power gains but just the cosmetics there are various reasons why someone who doesn't raid could want to collect a set of raid gear, but it still comes back to them NEEDING to actually raid to get the gear you describing, if they can get gear without raiding, its not raid gear? as much as ppl might not like to see it, the lfr is actually a raid, the automatic group forming and speed in which you can get ppl together and go in might make it feel trivial, but it still a raid, it just didn't take 3 hrs to form manually.

[Deleted]

Just don't make the gear in LFR mandatory or better/equivalent to Flex/normal and we're fine.

The issues having tier and trinkets in LFR caused this expansion was too much. Not equipping a heroic piece because it would break your 4 set, part of which is Flex springs to mind. Having to coin LFR lei shen every week because he won't drop your trinket on normal also reminds me of bad times.

Only having to run LFR once or twice and being fully decked out and ready for flex would be fantastic for the LFR heroes who only do LFR but are too scared/intimidated/undergeared for Flex.

[Doylez]

Even if you don't necessarily "need" the gear, like in every RPG getting gear and advancing your character is fun and a big part of the game. If you can't do that because you don't raid then what's the point of even playing the game.

[Granyala]

Ok lets say 50% of the wow player base doesn't raid, once they reach max level, run timesink isle, get full 496, do all the quests get all the achieves they want, then the only thing left is LFR or flex or normal raiding, or pvp, but they all collectivly say 'you know what i don't want to raid or pvp, so i'm basically stuck here at this power level with no real reason to progress' at that point the game loses half its player base until the next expansion, that doesn't happen though, so simply grinding the gear, for the sake of grinding it, is what keeps them playing.

The question didn't revolve around subscription retention. Ofc gear is necessary for that, since gear is the only carrot WoW has. (A design fail if you ask me)

The question was: Do you need raid gear in WoW if you do not raid.
The answer is: you don't.

[Deleted]

If you have no drivers license, why do you need car?

For selfies of course.

[LexiSwe]

Better loot means u are able to kill faster which equals to better economy, and in the addition to the factor that enemies of the Horde (or traitors, if it the dilemma will happen once more, from timeless isle at the starting place (or was it isle of thunder? )) you will be ganked and frowned upon not having better gear.

With the obvious motivation you choosed a pvp realm shouldn't be a reason to be satisfied with being killed over and over again.