Serious PvP requires too much grinding. Grinding ≠ Skill

[IzoGray]

PvP is strictly about skill based matches. Every time a season starts the people who devote hours every single day are the only ones who can gear up for rated matches in time.

Honor gear should be much cheaper and easier to get, or at least there should be more honor given for winning and losing matches. Rated matches are where the skill comes into play and there's a cap on the amount of points you can get /week so even if you play all day you can't buy everything right away.

Then, by the time you get the honor gear, just to be able to survive in arena, you've already been out geared by the people who have been in there with their "headstart."

It just seems like a really dumb way to set up PvP. It's one of the biggest grinds in game.

[Bloodjunky22]

Honor gear takes maybe 12 to 20 hours of play to grind out., . . . that aint shit. /thread

[IzoGray]

Honor gear takes maybe 12 to 20 hours of play to grind out., . . . that aint shit. /thread

Oh thank you for your wisdom. I'm so glad you're on every single server to ensure we all have 5 second queue times and win every battle ground. Thank you so much forum fairy.

[Deleted]

To me, it's counter productive to a competitive environment to give the more skilled players a mechanical advantage by way of larger caps and faster item level gains. It does absolutely nothing but widen a gap between good players and bad ones which exists already by way of skill difference. It seems redundant when they're already better players, they don't even need the cap increase.

[hakujinbakasama]

Oh thank you for your wisdom. I'm so glad you're on every single server to ensure we all have 5 second queue times and win every battle ground. Thank you so much forum fairy.

Don't worry, go look at PVE discussions, the assumptions are the same on both sides.

[Bloodjunky22]

Oh thank you for your wisdom. I'm so glad you're on every single server to ensure we all have 5 second queue times and win every battle ground. Thank you so much forum fairy.

also check out some of the changes coming in WOD. . . . MoP gearing is easy as it is like my orig post states (if you have bad que times that sucks but still) With WoD we'll be getting chests that drop based on performance in said bg/skirms skirms will also award honor so theres an alternate path to BG grinding. so in all honesty there is not really much point in making a thread about something that already pretty easy to obtain (and getting easyer in the expac)

[Kaykay]

Here's a kicker.

Doing a bg ~80honor if you lose after 13 min. 180-220 if you win. (not counting the times you get gy farmed, the fact that you cant do fuck all if you dont have gear, and might aswell be afk in gy hoping your team can win)

doing a heroic dungeon ~ 60 honor per boss. with current ilvls takes 5-10 minutes to clear. 3-4 bosses ~240-300 honor per dungeon. It's a real shame when doing pve is the best way of earning pvp rewards.

[Bananarez]

The hardest part of the grind is actually grinding it out through battlegrounds. If you JP farm it doesn't take very long at all. I gave up on numerous alts this expac simply because losing 12-20 BGs for one piece of gear was absolutely miserable. You can't contribute to the win because you don't have any gear, and you can't get gear at a reasonable pace without winning. The only exception is AV/weekend where you can easily get carried and get 350-500 honor per win.

[hakujinbakasama]

The hardest part of the grind is actually grinding it out through battlegrounds. If you JP farm it doesn't take very long at all. I gave up on numerous alts this expac simply because losing 12-20 BGs for one piece of gear was absolutely miserable. You can't contribute to the win because you don't have any gear, and you can't get gear at a reasonable pace without winning. The only exception is AV/weekend where you can easily get carried and get 350-500 honor per win.

I completely fucking agree. PvP would potentially keep me in wow if it weren't for the way gear works. I'd wrath it be more profession and crafted based. It wouldn't be hard to create such a system, but... FUCK NO they won't do that.

[Deleted]

Doing a bg ~80honor if you lose after 13 min. 180-220 if you win. (not counting the times you get gy farmed, the fact that you cant do fuck all if you dont have gear, and might aswell be afk in gy hoping your team can win)

Actually I agree on this one.
Farming rares in Krasarang in ToT patch was actually 100x faster than doing BGs without any PvP gear. Fuck that, I've got 5-10 min queue, 10-20 min BG and if I lose I get some 100 honor. Well grats, you just wasted 30 minutes for 100 honor. Now to, waste some more (actually 22 times more) and you can buy 1 item.
I really want to try out a new class in PvP but the perspective of grinding that honor shit scares me away.

[hakujinbakasama]

Actually I agree on this one.
Farming rares in Krasarang in ToT patch was actually 100x faster than doing BGs without any PvP gear. Fuck that, I've got 5-10 min queue, 10-20 min BG and if I lose I get some 100 honor. Well grats, you just wasted 30 minutes for 100 honor. Now to, waste some more (actually 22 times more) and you can buy 1 item.
I really want to try out a new class in PvP but the perspective of grinding that honor shit scares me away.

The breakdown of it is even worse when you think about it.

You can't gain skill if you don't get to participate. So you're basically playing twice.

[Deleted]

honor gear aint worth shit. Full season gear vs honor is a lost game unless the enemy team goes afk.

[TJ]

Here's a kicker.

Doing a bg ~80honor if you lose after 13 min. 180-220 if you win. (not counting the times you get gy farmed, the fact that you cant do fuck all if you dont have gear, and might aswell be afk in gy hoping your team can win)

doing a heroic dungeon ~ 60 honor per boss. with current ilvls takes 5-10 minutes to clear. 3-4 bosses ~240-300 honor per dungeon. It's a real shame when doing pve is the best way of earning pvp rewards.

Currently doing this to get my honour gear, this guy isn't joking, farming dungeons is probably 3-4 times as good as doing BG's.

- - - Updated - - -

honor gear aint worth shit. Full season gear vs honor is a lost game unless the enemy team goes afk.

You've got to start somewhere. New players have to go for the honour and PvE players do too since PvE gear makes you hit like a wet noodle.

[Itisamuh]

They need to just do away with conquest gear, and have the honor gear each season be the best. Rated battlegrounds are too inconvenient to set up, and many players could honestly not care less about arena. I absolutely despise having to grind a new set for every character each season before I can even start to have fun, and even then be a full tier behind arena players. Gear goes against a competitive environment, and should have little to no weight.

[Ktperry]

Remove iLvl from pvp gear, and give it for free ( The honor gear that is ).

Decided to try again some pvp on my ret, which is like 5 seasons old gear, like 488iLvl.
Did 2 bg's, lost both for 1h i gained like 200honor.
Switched to my pve gear ~557iLvl, queue as ret, but as tank role, got 3,2k JP in under an hour. So yeah, BG's are quite pointless for gearing up.

[Relicra]

What is worse is missing a few weeks of capping then not being able to play for real until you have full gear much later because the difference in gear is so ridiculously big. Really fun not being able to play the game.

[Mormolyce]

Seriously never understood complaints about honor gear, I hardly even PVP at all and I got full honor geared in multiple seasons in less than a week of casual play.

It really couldn't be easier without you farting it up.

[Milkyz]

Arena Skirmishes & Ashran will help a lot as additional ways of grinding honor.

[Rucati]

Oh thank you for your wisdom. I'm so glad you're on every single server to ensure we all have 5 second queue times and win every battle ground. Thank you so much forum fairy.

Except everyone on every server can do random heroics and farm honor three times faster than in BGs. So this point is moot.

Regardless, honor gear is very easy to get, and really isn't something that needs to be complained about. If you want to talk about grinds the bigger issue is the conquest catchup, which takes somewhere in the ballpark of 70-80 arena wins to cap all your points, which is a massive grind.

But really, it's still not that hard. PvP isn't that grindy at all at this point, especially compared to the vanilla grind for High Warlord.

[Tazienne]

Except everyone on every server can do random heroics and farm honor three times faster than in BGs. So this point is moot.

Regardless, honor gear is very easy to get, and really isn't something that needs to be complained about. If you want to talk about grinds the bigger issue is the conquest catchup, which takes somewhere in the ballpark of 70-80 arena wins to cap all your points, which is a massive grind.

But really, it's still not that hard. PvP isn't that grindy at all at this point, especially compared to the vanilla grind for High Warlord.

First off, don't bring in the original honor system as it does not compare at all to the current environment. High Warlord did not require any sort of skill, it required having more time played on that character (not even by one person) than most others.

On topic, the point isn't how "easy" the gear may be to acquire, the point is that it is not fun and we are playing a game. Even a conservative estimate of 20 hours to earn a full suit (which is a total lie for nearly every server) is still a week or two of time for most casual players. We might get around 2 to 3 hours to play a day and at 20 hours for a full suit, I would still have to suffer through a full week of logging in and not enjoying my time in a freaking GAME. Time that I'm paying to allowed to play. How does that make sense???

The issue is that the honor grind for gear that isn't even really competitive is pointless. Every person doing that grind is a drag to their team. They will be verbally abused every game by someone who has better gear and needs someone to blame when they aren't doing as well as that person wants. They cannot feel good about contributing to the team effort as they know that their gear is weak and they are not truly pulling their weight. PVP should be completely about skill, not gear. PVE is the area of the game where they get to balance things around whether or not you are special enough to have this particular super shiny weapon from this uber boss.

All casuals want is the ability to actually be competitive with people on our same level and not have to spend a week or more simply to acquire a set of gear that is still inferior to what many other players are using simply because they have more time. And once we get that armor, what do we do? Sit in trade chat and spam for people to go and lose arenas with to slowly acquire gear that will be out of season by the time we actually get it.

Does it really sound fun to you to spend upwards of half a season or more losing more often than not, knowing that your teams are suffering because of YOU?