Bladestorm vs. Dragon Roar

[soakeyy]

Recently, multiple people have told me that Bladestorm is actually better than Dragon Roar w/ the right gear on a single target fight. However, a few other people told me that Dragon Roar is still better single-target-wise.

Any thoughts or clarifications?

Thanks
Soakeyy

[Valech]

If I recall correctly it´s a dps increase single target if you use it outside the cs window while being enraged and cancel it once enrage wears off. something like that.

[CollisionTD]

If you're comfortable with the fury rotation, then bladestorm does beat out dragon roar on iron juggernaut. If you're still learning, I would stick with dragon roar simply because the added complexity isn't worth adding to your rotation just yet, and it's a very minor increase.

But yes, basically do: CS-gcd-gcd-gcd-gcd-BT-bladestorm. (The BT might be the 4th global, that's fine, use it right after BT.) Let it spin for 5~ seconds (6 ticks), cancel, BT. It's a dps increase as long as you spin for 4-6 seconds, 5 seconds just tends to be the optimal point.

[Raugnaut]

Its a dps increase, but it requires the usage of /cancelaura macros so that you can use MS/BT on CD.

[Deleted]

Its a dps increase, but it requires the usage of /cancelaura macros so that you can use MS/BT on CD.

Not MS because its not an increase as Arms, on single target.

[soakeyy]

Thanks. I'm quite comfortable with Furys rotation so I will try this next week during farm and maybe on Siegecrafter progression if I'm not on belts (they scare me).

[Darkfriend]

Thanks. I'm quite comfortable with Furys rotation so I will try this next week during farm and maybe on Siegecrafter progression if I'm not on belts (they scare me).

You'll want BS for Siegecrafter anyway, for mines.

[CollisionTD]

Thanks. I'm quite comfortable with Furys rotation so I will try this next week during farm and maybe on Siegecrafter progression if I'm not on belts (they scare me).

Honestly, iron juggernaut is the only encounter that I would consider dragon roar on. The subtle thing about dragon roar is that if you hit 2 targets, it splits damage. So, say for example you dragon roar and it clips a mine on juggernaut? Even though it says "IMMUNE", it reduces the damage of your dragon roar by 25% for 2 targets, 35% on 3, 45% on 4 and 50% on 5.

That's why everyone takes bladestorm on paragons. It's legitimately better for priority target damage, assuming you aren't blowing recklessness into bladestorm for padding. =)

[nowish]

You'll want BS for Siegecrafter anyway, for mines.

He might not do that tacatic tho!

[Archimtiros]

Doesn't matter what tactic you do, you still get mines.

[meteo]

Doesn't matter what tactic you do, you still get mines.

In 10man we only get one spawn and they are easily killed by our tanks. The melees aren't even allowed near them due to a scared raid lead. No happy faces during bladestorm for me

[nowish]

Doesn't matter what tactic you do, you still get mines.

So you are going to argue that you want bladestorm for 1 wave of mines which is easily managed by the ranged, and which require the melee to run to africa? If you are not tanking the boss where they spawn, which at least we dont. More padding please?

[Archimtiros]

In 10man we only get one spawn and they are easily killed by our tanks. The melees aren't even allowed near them due to a scared raid lead. No happy faces during bladestorm for me

Fair enough. I forget sometimes the differing dynamics in 10m. I will concede your point.

Bladestorm is still technically higher single target damage when used correctly, however I can understand using Dragon Roar for Belts if extra damage is needed to kill them, though I do not believe it necessary by any means.

- - - Updated - - -

So you are going to argue that you want bladestorm for 1 wave of mines which is easily managed by the ranged, and which require the melee to run to africa? If you are not tanking the boss where they spawn, which at least we dont. More padding please?

This depends on your comp and your strat. Our melee never run away from Mines because they are handled correctly using slows, stuns and honestly if targeted you can just run a circle around the boss while staying in melee range, which is what I personally do.
Edit: I will concede that I rarely need to kite Mines away, when either I have two targeting me from opposite sides or Shockwave Missile's are in bad spots. This isn't not a constant concern however.

As for your ranged, it depends on what ranged you have, how much and honestly how good they are. Strictly speaking Frost DK's, Warriors, Ele Shaman and Warlocks are the best AoE classes in the game and thus the best for handling the Mines.

Also, why do you not tank them where they spawn? I believe there is only one point in which we do not, and for only a handful of moments. It is much much easier to control the mines if you tank the boss where they spawn, and is likely why your melee are not adept at dealing with them. Not sure on the one wave either, but that is immaterial.

TLDR: Don't suck? I can't imagine this post coming from a well known and progressed guild. Blew my mind.

[nowish]

This depends on your comp and your strat. Our melee never run away from Mines because they are handled correctly using slows, stuns and honestly if targeted you can just run a circle around the boss while staying in melee range, which is what I personally do.
Edit: I will concede that I rarely need to kite Mines away, when either I have two targeting me from opposite sides or Shockwave Missile's are in bad spots. This isn't not a constant concern however.

As for your ranged, it depends on what ranged you have, how much and honestly how good they are. Strictly speaking Frost DK's, Warriors, Ele Shaman and Warlocks are the best AoE classes in the game and thus the best for handling the Mines.

Also, why do you not tank them where they spawn? I believe there is only one point in which we do not, and for only a handful of moments. It is much much easier to control the mines if you tank the boss where they spawn, and is likely why your melee are not adept at dealing with them. Not sure on the one wave either, but that is immaterial.

TLDR: Don't suck? I can't imagine this post coming from a well known and progressed guild. Blew my mind.

Wait what? I said that we are not using the tactic where we get tons of mines all the time (aka we kill mines on the belt), that 1 wave is not something that is troublesome during the encounter, it is the focus on missile management. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDKHOZ6sG2M this is pretty much how we deal with it. Reason? allowing the belt people to have higher uptime on the boss, beeing able to dps/position the shredder quicker etc.

Should I take that as an insult "your melee are not adept at dealing with them"? Never said we couldn't manage to deal with them, I said we do not need our melee to deal with them, 2 completely different things.

I've done both tactics fyi, kill mines on war, kill missile on my ww monk, I know how they both work and are supposed to be executed. I wish I would get to do to the imba aoe padding on mines on my war for fat ranking, since obviously that is all that matters to the majority of people (lol what)? But that was not what I wanted to point out with my post at all. I just implied that if the OP was dealing with the enounter the way we do, you don't pick and hold bladestorm for that one aoe wave!
I would also argue that rets got pretty god damn good aoe if stars align.

TLDR: Cant believe you honestly told me to not suck... watch the vid, what I meant with "run to africa" is the melee running from the boss position to where the mines spawn. I guess you misunderstood my post / I worded it poorly.

[Warriorsarri]

I think Archi assumed you ran with the "Midwinter" start, rather than the one where you mainly kill mines on the belt (Same start that we use).

Not MS because its not an increase as Arms, on single target.

Bladestorm is a bigger single target increase for Arms than it is for Fury. To use it optimally you cancel it whenever MS or CS is ready (If CS is already on the target you can keep spinning even if CS procs, until there's less then 1 seconds left on the debuff).

[nowish]

Thought he should have been able to figure that one out as I mentioned "1 wave of mines", tho no need to be a douche about it. Dont even know why I felt the need to defend myself... I usually just use BS on blackfuse anyway since the belt is a non issue at this point #carriedbygear

[Archimtiros]

I guess you misunderstood my post / I worded it poorly.

I misunderstood. I didn't mean to personally attack you mind, the way you expressed melee having to run to Africa and I did not do my own research/look up a video of your kill, I just took what you were saying and incorrectly applied it to my idea of the encounters execution.

So I'll chalk that one up to misconstruing your wording, jumping to conclusions on mine and I apologize for sounding douchy. That is definitely an encounter with many variations on how to "correctly" execute and it is easy to forget that many guilds do it differently.

[Darkfriend]

So you are going to argue that you want bladestorm for 1 wave of mines which is easily managed by the ranged, and which require the melee to run to africa? If you are not tanking the boss where they spawn, which at least we dont. More padding please?

No I'm going to argue that BS is better ANYWAY with the added benefit that if it hits even 1 add it's only going to make it better. Hell, even if it happens to hit the shreader it can only make it better.

So ye, its still better.

But don't take it just cuz adds, take it cuz its better :P