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  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    And neither will I be alive, which is why I dont give 2 shits about climate change even though I believe its natural and not made made
    Well, what you believe means absolutely jack. It's what science can, and has, proven.

  2. #602
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Not only that, but see where Antarctica is located ? Why does fossilized tropical flora exist there now under the ice? The answer is, the earth as a whole was much warmer than it is now.
    There is also this happening at the same time..

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...ia-earth-core/

  3. #603
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    The pollution we are creating is already affecting life forms on the planet in very negative ways and in less than 100 years will have a much bigger impact on life as we know it on this planet in a much bigger way than global warming will. We can make a concentrated global effort on manmade green house contributions, slow down global warming, while ignoring the other pollution factors and still be screwed in 100 years or less. The stressed points should be on all pollution made by man with a global effort. Which no matter who may be correct on global warming, the facts are clear we are destroying our environment from man made pollution.
    Nobody is saying that all we need to worry about are greenhouse gasses and the like. You're arguing against a position that doesn't exist. Taking a position on one subject, like anthropogenic climate change, doesn't prevent you from simultaneously having a position on, say, water pollution that's harming fragile ecosystems.

    You can be against both. It's not like the moment we have a second position on any topic, the first position vanishes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Not only that, but see where Antarctica is located ? Why does fossilized tropical flora exist there now under the ice? The answer is, the earth as a whole was much warmer than it is now.
    The correct answer is "plate tectonics and continental drift".

    While the Earth was warmer, the reason you see the fossils you do in Antarctica is because it wasn't anywhere near the South Pole at the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by thatmikeguy View Post
    There is also this happening at the same time..

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...ia-earth-core/
    Has nothing at all to do with that.

    The drifting of the magnetic pole has no effect whatsoever on the position of the geographic pole. In theory, the magnetic "north" pole could be on the equator, and the ice caps would still be where they are today.


  4. #604
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    Actually, I don't think that graph is current either. If I'm measuring right, it shows the current level at about 380ppm. It's actually over 400.
    Real time graph can be found here.

    http://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/

    Currently JUST over 400ppm, but the value goes up and down constantly. It's the overall trend that needs to be paid attention to, not what it's at right this second.
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  5. #605
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Ah, here's a up-to-current graph


    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
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  6. #606
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    If our contribution is negligible to nonexistent, then reducing that contribution will have no effect, except accelerating the development of things we should develop anyways. Our current preferred fuel sources are limited and we'll have to wean ourselves off of them eventually.


    If our contribution is significant or the primary cause, then reducing that contribution will save the world and make Captain Planet happy.
    The pollution from the volcanic activity on Iceland(2010) to our atmosphere, was greater than the estimated human pollution over the last 10 years.
    Last edited by DPA; 2014-05-14 at 04:37 PM.
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    Are you really looking for logic in a game that sends you dragons via the mail service?...

  7. #607
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Nobody is saying that all we need to worry about are greenhouse gasses and the like. You're arguing against a position that doesn't exist. Taking a position on one subject, like anthropogenic climate change, doesn't prevent you from simultaneously having a position on, say, water pollution that's harming fragile ecosystems.

    You can be against both. It's not like the moment we have a second position on any topic, the first position vanishes.



    The correct answer is "plate tectonics and continental drift".

    While the Earth was warmer, the reason you see the fossils you do in Antarctica is because it wasn't anywhere near the South Pole at the time.



    Has nothing at all to do with that.

    The drifting of the magnetic pole has no effect whatsoever on the position of the geographic pole. In theory, the magnetic "north" pole could be on the equator, and the ice caps would still be where they are today.
    Global warming being stressed is a political move to try to win support for a certain agenda in order to enhance the view of a party. Instead stress what almost all humans know and can see is happening. Manmade pollution. You do not need a scientist to confirm that. Just go to a oil slick and see how it impacts life. :P

    And from that chart of the one single large continent, Antarctica is fairly close to the south pole still. :P Even under present conditions, any land that close to the south pole would not have tropical vegetation unless the Earth in fact was much warmer than it is now.

  8. #608
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DPA View Post
    The pollution from the volcanic activity on Iceland(2010) to our atmosphere, was greater than the estimated human pollution over the last 10 years.
    "Pollution" in exactly what form? And do you have the actual numbers?

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
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  9. #609
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    For reference, this is what it looks like now in that projection

    FYI, that world map is so wrong it's not even funny. Notice how in that map the area of the lower 48 states of the United States combined with Canada is almost as big as Africa, and you could fit 1.5 Africas in the area of North America? We really ought to start using the real world map so people learn the true sizes and shapes of countries and continents.

    This, for example, is the true size of Africa:

    (Click to enlarge.)


    You can basically fit North America almost twice inside Africa.
    Last edited by mmoc3ff0cc8be0; 2014-05-14 at 08:49 PM.

  10. #610
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö View Post
    We really ought to start using the real world map so people learn the true sizes and shapes of countries and continents.
    The only "real world map" you're going to get is a globe. You can't flatten a sphere without distorting it somewhere somehow.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Tayler
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  11. #611
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Global warming being stressed is a political move to try to win support for a certain agenda in order to enhance the view of a party.
    I'm going to keep repeating this point.

    Science is not political. We aren't talking about adaptation strategies or responses. That is arguably political. The science itself is not.

    If a building's about to collapse, you can debate whether it's better to demolish it or repair it, and you can make political-agenda arguments either way. Disputing gravity itself to claim it won't fall down is not a political position, it's just ignorance.

    And from that chart of the one single large continent, Antarctica is fairly close to the south pole still.
    In the same sense that New Zealand or Argentina are "fairly close to the South Pole", today.


  12. #612
    You know Canada, Alaska, and Mexico are part of North America too right?

    North America has an area of 9.54 million sqmi.
    Africa is 11.67 million sqmi.

    Google is amazing!

    And apparently you don't understand maps.
    Last edited by Ahhdurr; 2014-05-14 at 05:15 PM.

  13. #613
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    The only "real world map" you're going to get is a globe. You can't flatten a sphere without distorting it somewhere somehow.
    You can do a decent job. Different projections such as http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...on_rotated.svg

    There's still distortion, of course.

    Let's all ride the Gish gallop.

  14. #614
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahhdurr View Post
    You know Canada, Alaska, and Mexico are part of North America too right?
    Fair enough. I did mean only the lower 48 and Canada, the main, central land mass of the continent. Should've said so. The US without Alaska, together with Canada are around 6. Edited my earlier post to reflect this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahhdurr View Post
    And apparently you don't understand maps.
    I understand that there are plenty of things wrong in the map the world currently uses. Not just concerning North America.
    Last edited by mmoc3ff0cc8be0; 2014-05-14 at 08:49 PM.

  15. #615
    Quote Originally Posted by Sydänyö View Post
    I understand that there are plenty of things wrong in the map the world currently uses. Not just concerning North America.
    Edit: NM. I guess you were taking issue with the distortion of the map. First time I read it seemed like 'hurr America makes themselves bigger on maps' for some reason.
    Last edited by Ahhdurr; 2014-05-14 at 05:38 PM.

  16. #616
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahhdurr View Post
    Why bring it up then? I guess you were joking?
    Because it's one of the things wrong with the map.

  17. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voij View Post
    There are 3 common opinions on the topic of global warming:
    a) Global warming is real, human contribution is upwards of 75%.
    b) Global warming is real, human contribution is below 10%.
    c) Global warming is real, but we have no clue how much of it is due to human contribution.
    1 and 2 are the same thing, 2 is just a misunderstanding/intentional misinterpretation for the purpose of misleading people.

    Earth breaths in and out 774 and 778 gigatons of carbon each year, respectively. Humans breath out 32 gigatons.

    What people, who are intentionally trying to misinterpret the data to mislead, point out how utterly puny the human contribution "looks" in the grand scale. But when you look at our history, and no past climate change events have ever exceeded more than 5 gigatons per year naturally in our entire earth's history, that 32 number becomes a lot bigger. It aligns with our projections and models.

    3 is just straight up denialism, and deliberately attempts to ignore all data and studies. It's like saying we can't measure temperatures. It's just that global climate change has a much more complicated model. But every bit of it is measurable.

    We have no clue who of those people is right, because calculating global warming is pretty much impossible with our current assets.
    "We" is correct if you're talking about those people who have been intentionally misled away from the data and facts. Again, it's like saying we don't know how to measure temperature.
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  18. #618
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I'm going to keep repeating this point.

    Science is not political. We aren't talking about adaptation strategies or responses. That is arguably political. The science itself is not.

    If a building's about to collapse, you can debate whether it's better to demolish it or repair it, and you can make political-agenda arguments either way. Disputing gravity itself to claim it won't fall down is not a political position, it's just ignorance.



    In the same sense that New Zealand or Argentina are "fairly close to the South Pole", today.
    Science has been used before to push a political agenda. And I want to say, it is not just one party which is guilty of this. Both major political parties are in the US.

    And yeah, New Zealand is a fairly long island, which is why you will not see tropical plants at the end of the South Island. Same for Argentina. But according to that map presented, Antarctica is closer to the South Pole than those two mentioned are. With the exception of the northern part. But then why do they find fossilized tropical plants on areas of Antarctica which should not have had them?

  19. #619
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    I think Im going to need to see a citation for that.
    I guess you missed the part where they were blocking the sale of Tesla cars because they didn't go through a dealership. Or several western states running smear campaigns against solar panels, saying that those who use them are stealing from everyone else, which is of course utter bullshit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Science has been used before to push a political agenda. And I want to say, it is not just one party which is guilty of this. Both major political parties are in the US.

    And yeah, New Zealand is a fairly long island, which is why you will not see tropical plants at the end of the South Island. Same for Argentina. But according to that map presented, Antarctica is closer to the South Pole than those two mentioned are. With the exception of the northern part. But then why do they find fossilized tropical plants on areas of Antarctica which should not have had them?
    You said this before and I explained it. Plate tectonics. If you don't understand that Antarctica was once AT THE EQUATOR either because it is too difficult a concept or because it's inconvenient for the point you're trying to make, I don't know how to help you.
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  20. #620
    Banned Orlong's Avatar
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    All misleading as well. Almost all your electric car ban links are about states that arent allowing Teslas to be sold by the factory directly. They are free to sell as many as they want through a dealership. I dont agree with it, but its likely backed by unions that dont want non union people selling cars.

    The solar bans arent even states doing it. Mostly just small municipalities so dont act like all republicans want to ban the stuff. In addition they arent even banning solar panels, they are just requiring them to be on the back side of the roof or yard so they dont make everything look ugly. Personally I dont agree because i believe its your property and should be able to do whatever you want with it, but when you live under a stupid HOA youre stuck with the rules. Ill never live in one because of that

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