WoD: Why are they removing so much?

[Mafic]

To me it seems they are removing too many features that made the game as a whole improved to play. Given it is older game one would expect tools like this to increase over time but not to be stripped away. Does it make the game more attractive to new players? Does it make the game more attractive to existing players or players that used to play?

Someone help me out because while MoP had its flaws I didn't feel like they were stripping what made WoW the game it is (talent system changes were and still are controversial). WoD seems like they are trying to start over, and all these changes are being made because they did not approve of the changes made over the life of the game. But is a reset like Star Wars' NGE a good idea for an already successful game like WoW especially given its age?

[fixx]

The sky is not falling, and nothing valuable is removed in WoD.

[Cafua]

I'm pretty sure the majority of the player base likes the new talent system. Also I really don't think WoD is going to feel like starting over because they're taking everything they've learned from all the past expansions and bringing forth a well rounded, trimmed up version of WoW.

[Zalraki]

They are removing a lot of stuff so Blizzard will have it easier during development and tuning. They are not doing it for the players. And even with all the removed stuff it still takes them longer to add content than most smaller companies

[Osmeric]

What exactly are you talking about, OP?

And the comparison to SWG NGE is ridiculous.

[mistahwilshire]

They're removing all the stupid shit.

[DrMcNinja]

They removed: Two stats. Added more.
They changed nothing to raid difficulties.
They remove spells.
They add Garrisons.
They add new glyphs, spell upgrades and lvl 100 talents as well as giving spec specific talents.
They remove flying.
They add a 24/7 PvP zone.
They plan to add more dungeons and MAYBE mythic for the older ones to keep them on the same level as new dungeons.
They give us 2 new fancy capital cities.
They gave us a free 90.
They add MORE different armor arts (I.e. LFR, Normal and HC will have different looking armor)

Now let's do the math: For every feature they remove, we get roughly two things added somewhere else.

[fixx]

They are removing a lot of stuff so Blizzard will have it easier during development and tuning. They are not doing it for the players.

That's bullshit excuse and you'd know it too if you stopped to think about it for a minute.

Least amount of time spent tuning would be if they changed absolutely nothing. But now with removed stats, removed buttons and item squish everything needs to be changed... Not easier but harder tuning. Lot harder.

[Deleted]

It was necessary, the game at 60 had unnecessary (or at least sporatic/occasionally useful) things and had enought useful things. Burning Crusade got more, Wrath of the Lich King got more, Cataclysm got more, Mist of Pandaria got more and now Warlords of Draenore will get new ones. There are so many defunct spells (or occasionally used ones) its inconvenient.

Heals for example you have variatons depending on Cost, Output and Cast, unnecessary.
Ferals for example had Shred and Mangle. Both the standard CP generator depending on situation, both had to be bound, you either use one or the other, had to have both bound incase of a situation in the fight. They buffed Mangle to act like shred but you still got penalised so they scrapped it now.
So many CDs, they had to add features to combat it. Be it burst CDs for DPS, making situations that needed them become even more intense requiring everyone who could to use simultaneously to meet the requirement.(1 buff stretches the DPS an additional 30%, 3-4 and it doubles. Remove the number of CDs and remove the jump in the DPS.

Reforging was a mute point, stats varied in importance so you had to or older gear>New (at least at lower ilvls at changes of Teirs). Balance the stats and the need to reforge reduces.

Quest log changes, no-one really reads other than what is needed(or if it had where pre-tracking) so the kill x/collect y so be it. at least they keeping the main strand of quests the same.

Yes over time things get more features over time. However there is always a threshold where there are TOO many features and it infact harms the game. Blizzard are removing the clutter to improve gameplay, it also allows the game to remain popular and allow people the chance to continue playing without having to evolve a third up so the can use all their bindings.

[Blitzdoctor]

This is the Great Cleanup expansion. The idea seems to be less is more, and hopefully it turns out exactly that.

[LTCrystallite]

They're doing far more good than harm though. As an Enh Shaman, I agree with them changing "many pitiful damage sources = overall good dps" to "more condensed dmg sources = same overall good dps". Stronger Windfury, Lava Lash resets, stronger consistent dmg vs. total reliance on ascendance.

On top of that, the gear progression is going to feel nicer since you can get your hands on shiny new stats, and for progression they're being very mindful that players don't want to just do what's "the best and obvious choice". Normal raids are balanced around you having full Heroic Dungeon gear and some crafting/garrison items as well. Challenge modes will also offer Heroic or LFR equivalent gear, or at least that's the current plan (via Ion Hazz interview).

I think the point is to make things more straightforward so the interactions in the game itself can be more intrinsic. For example, no flying at the start of the expac, and TBA for the rest of it. Why? I agree with the point Bashiok made about how instead of planning your path on the ground and caring about the environment, we feel upset when we're flying over everything to go gather an herb or to collect a quest item, and then "OMG we have to fight something!? I've never been so upset!"

I looked back on each expac and that's EXACTLY how I've felt for a long time. I'd rather enjoy playing the game instead of feeling like it's a chore to have to interact with the content.

[TyrianFC]

Because WoW is a 10 year old bloated mess of a game in certain areas.

Removing/cleaning/trimming dead wood is a GOOD thing - for a game this old, this complex (especially for new players), and with this amount of features.

[Flaim]

This is the Great Cleanup expansion. The idea seems to be less is more, and hopefully it turns out exactly that.

exactly!
why having 5 buttons do (basically) the same thing, if you can consolidate them all into one?
there are currently so many abilities one needs special peripherals (i.e. razer naga) just to be able to bind everything because all of them are useful under certain circumstances.

[Zoaric]

I can't find the proper picture, but here's WoW now, sure it's big, and there's lots
there, but it's messy. There's a lot of unneeded excess there.


And here's WoW in Wod. There will be stuff removed, but the game will be cleaner,
more respectable and just be overall better.


(WoD's picture being tiny is purely a coincidence.)

[ringpriest]

To me it seems they are removing too many features that made the game as a whole improved to play. Given it is older game one would expect tools like this to increase over time but not to be stripped away. Does it make the game more attractive to new players? Does it make the game more attractive to existing players or players that used to play?

Someone help me out because while MoP had its flaws I didn't feel like they were stripping what made WoW the game it is (talent system changes were and still are controversial). WoD seems like they are trying to start over, and all these changes are being made because they did not approve of the changes made over the life of the game. But is a reset like Star Wars' NGE a good idea for an already successful game like WoW especially given its age?

This has been Blizzard's SOP since Burning Crusade. Whittling the game down a little bit at a time. In my opinion, the two most likely reasons for this happening are ease of maintenance and development, and a sort of variant Not Invented Here syndrome that seems to infest all sorts of program design.

With maintenance and development, its cheaper for Blizzard if new stuff doesn't need as much dev time. That's why we've generally seen an endless series of cuts to things like class-specific quests and profession complexity. Stuff that isn't experience by all players is 'less efficient' in terms of "game time played per designer hour" or some metric like that. (While there have been occasional exceptions such as the legendary daggers questline, its clearly a case of one step forward, three steps back.)

There's also a tendency in corporations and programming for the "new guys" to want to replace the "old guys" stuff with their own, either because they honestly believe its better, because they want to demonstrate their own abilities rather than just maintain someone else's design, or both. There's also a degree of "change for the sake of change".

With some things, like the removal of talent trees, you can see both motivations at work - the new system is obviously far easier to balance, and it completely eliminated the "old stuff". It will be interesting to see how these dynamics play out now that more of the original "old hands" appear to be occupying positions of influence in the WoW dev team.

[Hb]

Because they added too much unnecessary shit..

[Lilly32]

I'm pretty sure the majority of the player base likes the new talent system.

wait what? are they finally getting rid of the current garbage system and adding something similar to what we had during TBC and Wrath? You know when gaining a new level actually meant something.

[ComputerNerd]

Lets look at the only example you state, talent changes.
Nothing controversial about them, only fuss being created in the minds of players who are quite simply stupid.
Every argument about how the old system was better is simply flawed.
The fast majority of points were spent the exact same way, there were simply right and wrong ways.
There was never really "choice".

While you can argue about how much choice there is now, that is the fault not of the framework but of the choices contained within.
Before it was the framework which killed choice, now its only imbalanced or poorly designed choices within it.
That can be fixed without breaking the whole thing. It could not be before.

The only genuine argument, and really a feature that doesn't need tied to talents is the per-level reward.
I have suggested levelling duration rewards per-level, for levelling gear or per-level duration buffs.
That way there is nothing persisting from it at level cap, and doesn't have right or wrong choices.

If you think something should not be removed, then mention it specifically rather than a generic and ill-thought out attack.

[Frozenbeef]

Because they are streamlining in order to improve the entertainment value along with the fun factor and other buzz words...

[Curlyfry]

Ignorant threads like this and the responses that fill this page fill me with sadness None of you know how Game Development works, to say they are doing less work now than before is wrong, you just see it that way because you truly don't know how it works on the inside. Its easy to point out things going away, good or bad, and say the end is near. Good luck in this thread, I hope it gets filled with constructive criticism <[:^)