dire beast vs thrill

[DiscoGhost]

hey guize new to hunter.

tell me if im wrong, but my research shows that dire beast scales with BM mastery. in that case, would that make dire beast more consistent damage output than the rng thrill of the hunt? i have yet to test on a dummy but wanted community opinion.

[Nnug]

DB on single target, ToTH on fights where you need to keep up beastcleave or Thok

[Azortharion]

DB does scale with Mastery, and does do more damage than ToTH (by quite a bit).

[Nemesiz]

And TotH on Thok is only due to DB losing hits or Bats AoE, or even both?

[Azortharion]

And TotH on Thok is only due to DB losing hits or Bats AoE, or even both?

Dire Beast for Thok, too. Doesn't really lose attacks with most tacs used in the top end.

[Summis]

I'll give you a rundown of each encounter and which I tend to use, these are preference.

Immerseus- Thrill
Protectors- Thrill
Nuroshen- DB
Pride- DB
Galakras- DB (because the manner in which the packs spawn makes BW come off CD perfectly for the start of each one)
Jugg- DB
Shamans- DB
Naz- DB
Malk- DB
Spoils- Thrill
Thok- DB
Siege- Thrill (Belt Duty)
Paragons- DB (unless I'm in the padding mood)
Garrosh- DB

[Jeremypwnz]

Dire Beast for Thok, too. Doesn't really lose attacks with most tacs used in the top end.

Except mine (if you can count it top end), kiting Thok to 14-16 stacks.

[Azortharion]

I'll give you a rundown of each encounter and which I tend to use, these are preference.

Immerseus- Thrill
Protectors- Thrill
Nuroshen- DB
Pride- DB
Galakras- DB (because the manner in which the packs spawn makes BW come off CD perfectly for the start of each one)
Jugg- DB
Shamans- DB
Naz- DB
Malk- DB
Spoils- Thrill
Thok- DB
Siege- Thrill (Belt Duty)
Paragons- DB (unless I'm in the padding mood)
Garrosh- DB

Zero reason to use DB for Shamans even if you're not tanking them together - the DPS ToTH can grant you in the opener + on the slimes will make it pull ahead significantly.

Zero reason to go DB for Galakras, BW doesn't even affect DB.

Not sure why Thrill for belt duty. x.x DB can have full uptime and you'll have BW for every belt, greatly reducing its value.

- - - Updated - - -

Except mine (if you can count it top end), kiting Thok to 14-16 stacks.

Not "top end" as in.. Well, top 100 and whatnot, more like.. Guilds that killed Thok a while ago I guess.

[Summis]

Dire beast is the highest possible theoretical DPS gain unless it's an AOE heavy fight where you will be using multishot instead of arcane shot for the entire duration (or close to it). With bestial wrath you can basically spam multishot as if you had thrill, but you still have the DPS gifted by DB. Besides the opener and the 5 second window in which the oozes are up shamans is a single target fight (the way that most guilds do it). The same logic is used for galakras; with BW at the start of each pack I don't need thrill to effectively aoe. I use thrill on belts because it allows rapid fire to come off cd faster, like I stated originally it's just my preference.

[Azortharion]

Dire beast is the highest possible theoretical DPS gain unless it's an AOE heavy fight where you will be using multishot instead of arcane shot for the entire duration (or close to it). With bestial wrath you can basically spam multishot as if you had thrill, but you still have the DPS gifted by DB. Besides the opener and the 5 second window in which the oozes are up shamans is a single target fight (the way that most guilds do it). The same logic is used for galakras; with BW at the start of each pack I don't need thrill to effectively aoe. I use thrill on belts because it allows rapid fire to come off cd faster, like I stated originally it's just my preference.

The logic doesn't apply because ToTH and DB are fairly close to start with, and introducing the 1) opener (which is huge, by the way) and 2) the oozes (that depending on how many demo warlocks and ele shamans you have can be up for a significant period) AND the fact that wolf cleave might be slow all AND the fact that the boss move frantically around the zone for the entire encounter all diminish Dire Beast's value.

Rapid Fire does pretty little for you on the belts, it's a weak cooldown, and going Thrill doesn't actually give you much more Rapid Fire uptime at all. Check logs for that.

I get that it's preference and all but there's no reason to base that on wrong pretenses and I don't doubt for a second that you (and OP) would see a DPS increase going for ToTH instead of DB on Shamans/Galakras/belt duty.

[Summis]

The logic doesn't apply because ToTH and DB are fairly close to start with, and introducing the 1) opener (which is huge, by the way) and 2) the oozes (that depending on how many demo warlocks and ele shamans you have can be up for a significant period) AND the fact that wolf cleave might be slow all AND the fact that the boss move frantically around the zone for the entire encounter all diminish Dire Beast's value.

Rapid Fire does pretty little for you on the belts, it's a weak cooldown, and going Thrill doesn't actually give you much more Rapid Fire uptime at all. Check logs for that.

I get that it's preference and all but there's no reason to base that on wrong pretenses and I don't doubt for a second that you (and OP) would see a DPS increase going for ToTH instead of DB on Shamans/Galakras/belt duty.

I guess i'ts how I've always done it. But for the sake of progress I will take your advice and switch talents on these fights, I'm always looking to change things up and try something new, the game would get too boring otherwise.

[Azortharion]

I get that it's preference and all but there's no reason to base that on wrong pretenses and I don't doubt for a second that you (and OP) would see a DPS increase going for ToTH instead of DB on Shamans/Galakras/belt duty.

Dire Beast for belt duty I meant* my bad.

[Nemesiz]

Azor: "AND the fact that the boss move frantically around the zone for the entire encounter all diminish Dire Beast's value."

Certainly that last part can't be used as an argument against the use of DB, since it doesn't lose hits on Thok (14-16 stacks), it shouldn't lose hits on other bosses either? Surely Thok must be the fastest of them all.

[Azortharion]

Azor: "AND the fact that the boss move frantically around the zone for the entire encounter all diminish Dire Beast's value."

Certainly that last part can't be used as an argument against the use of DB, since it doesn't lose hits on Thok (14-16 stacks), it shouldn't lose hits on other bosses either? Surely Thok must be the fastest of them all.

Shamans move faster than Thok does at the stacks you usually hit on HC these days (9 or so?), they also move much more frequently.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...ce=1&by=source in this log, the hunter's Dire Beast hit Thok 124 times, over 10 usages, this averages to 12 attacks each. A little less than it could be, mostly because the Beast started losing attacks at 13 stacks if we check when the beast didn't attack for its full duration: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...30&end=7910208

And what was happening with Blood Frenzy at the time: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...40&view=events

Taking another log on Shamans with the same # of Dire Beast uses (full), "only" 121 Dire Beast attacks hit. Sure, not a big difference, but then keep in mind that this is a top parse log (so relatively short fight for a split Shamans fight of 5:10). I can't know what OP is running, but he says he's new to hunter, so I guess I can safely assume that his potential HC Shamans kill will be much, much, much longer (allowing for many, many, many more movements where the Beast is likely to lose attacks). Summis' guild is west #294, so I guess it's a "safe" guess that their kills are 6-7+ minutes long.

This (but more so, my other points as I believe those are stronger than the argument of boss moving) should go to show that the shamans moving around (and depending on just how messy/bad/whatever your guild pulls it off, this movement will be much greater than what I'd expect from a top parse) is a valid argument for why ToTH > DB for Dark Shamans HC.

[Nemesiz]

Azor: "...but more so, my other points as I believe those are stronger than the argument of boss moving"

- Undoubtly so, I was just making sure I was on the same page. Also checking you up, god knows what you might get away with here on MMO-C... ^_^


I actually ran with DB tonight on Dark Shamans, so I'll have a looksie on it when our logs get thrown up on warcraft logs. I should be able to compare with your info here and other hunters in my guild (if they run the same), we do split tactic aswell. Our kill was 4m40sec, so I guess I could shave off 1 DB from the info you posted here.

Ty for the breakdown, I lack some WarcraftLog skills I see.