Please blanket nerf and do not implement item upgrades.

[nekobaka]

people feel entitled to "finishing" the content, even though they aren't actually good enough to do so.

Never mind that they have already seen the content.

As you have said, if there was another tier or expansion coming out soon there wouldnt have been these complaints as most of them didnt even "finish" the prior tier on heroic let alone bothered to go back to do it. Just bored players needing to feed their addiction and then blaming others for their issues.

[clevin]

Then you don't understand how high-end raiding works. "We're done" does not mean "We can slack off completely and not try". If there are still avenues of improvement, we must follow them.

Or what? Someone will come to your house and shoot you? Given where your raid is in progress (14/14H done LONG ago) if your RL insists on you capping VP on your main and upgrading everything I'd call them silly. If they insist on capping on your alts, they're just being dicks.

[Deleted]

Sorry, friend.
Blanket nerf would expose the longest tier hiatus ever very quickly and very severely.
Extra farm will keep some people farming, especially the ones that want to get into WoD with possible gear.

[Deleted]

If you take it upon you to farm gear for all 4 specs you only have yourself to blame if you're feeling "forced" to upgrade everything you sillybilly!

[Promdates]

The valor upgrades is not just a nerf to the raid tier, but essentially a nerf to the entire expansion content. Sure, they could have added an 8% nerf to T16, but then everything else outside of Siege of Orgrimmar would be exactly the same. At least with the upgrades, YOU yourself will be more powerful EVERYWHERE... not just within the raid zone.

It's a win/win for everyone. Players get overall stronger everywhere, blizz makes us keep playing to upgrade gear.

[Retsef]

As someone who is progressing still in Heroic Malk this is well received and wanted. I know that we arent the best in the world, but my home realm still hasnt seen a 10H or 25H Garrosh kill, and only the merged-into-us Realm has seen those happen... in the last 2 weeks.

I know that we aren't great raiders, but we are also about the only raiders on the server still making progression (haven't brick-walled fully yet).

Finding another 10% power/dps/hps/survivability will make the difference for us, at least through to Thok I would think.

[kaamila]

i find it cute that even with all the upgrades, i now have the item level of a 25man heroic raider would before the increased upgrades instead of a 10man one after lol. overall i think it was a success. we cleared 14/14H in about 3 hours.

[kamuimac]

Finding another 10% power/dps/hps/survivability will make the difference for us, at least through to Thok I would think.

it will through thok it wont so much through siegecrafter -_-

[Tharkkun]

it will through thok it wont so much through siegecrafter -_-

Last night alone, the upgraded gear on 10 raiders eliminated 2 swelling pride phases for us before 30% and shaved another after that. Things dying faster makes fights easier.

[Kezotar]

Just to rewrite my post..

We've had alot of nerfs regarding both, LFR, Flex, Normal and HC.

In addition to these nerfs we've had these
- Item Upgrades 4/4.
- Warforged
- Flex

These are new nerfs from our previous expansions..

How do these affect us?

LFR which was supposed to be done by played at lower item level and which are supposed to reward items of item level 528, can be upgraded to 536. After patch to 544.
We had FLEX - which gave us item level 540 INSTANTLY. With the 2/2 at that time 548! Now we're talking about a bigger nerf, 2 more upgrades, meaning that people only doing flex can reach a item level of 556! That's, higher than normal.

Now where does that leave us? It leaves us at you can actually be doing "NORMAL" content at item level MUCH higher than what you're atually recieving.. You were supposed to get upgrades, not downgrades..

If that's not enough, NORMAL has a chance to drop warforged! That's 6 MORE items level than normal! If the 553 that can be upgraded to 561 and after nerf this week to a whoopin' 569! If you are lucky, or not lucky after 6-7months with SoO to get warforged we're talking about a item level of 575! THAT'S THE ITEM LEVEL YOU CAN MAXIMUM ACHIEVE FROM DOING NORMAL RAIDS! And then heroics drop, what? 572? How can this even be NORMAL.. You have better gear than the gear that drops.

Now remember, ITEM UPGRADE is not a option or idea to make the item be stronger, it's a way to gap you closer to the raids and act as a nerf when you can't get more items that are good for you etc.

Either way. It's a huge nerf..

We were supposed to be doing:

SoO Normal with 525 - But as today we can do it with almost 560 iLvL!
We were supposed to do HC with 553 - But as of today we can stand proud doing it with 575!

So now tell me how fair it is doing content at 35 iLvL as before normal and 22 after normal prior to heroics!? That's a HUGE friggin nerf. Let's just pretend the "Warforged" are not nerf, let's just pretend they added that in the game with a inpredictable drop rate in addition with seals for a raid that's going to last for more than 1 year. Just let's pretend.

Then we're still looking at 29 and 16 item level difference. I mean, last I remember "Gurth HC had 416 iLvL". While the SUPER RARE panda blue rares had a item level of .. 450.
450-416 = 34. Sadly we have NOW in the SAME EXPANSION, and also not to forget the SAME CONTENT PATCH that huge difference. We're actually playing with the standards of WOD RARE BLUES as of today. Which are supposed to be overpowered in every way. And I'm not talking about only a weapon or a shield BUT FULLLY DECKED:

Now please.. tell me how DS or ICC was more nerfed than this.. Please.. Let's not mention the OP meta gem and the OP cloak. I'm pretty sure that there was maybe 1-3 shadowmournes amongst the players, or 2 rogues.. However, there's 25 cloaks and meta gems. Just the math, I'm sure that 35 item level not looking at cloak, but with it probably 40... Anyway, 8 item level = 11/12% DPS do the math, that's prolly 50% more dmg. Although I don't have the math and wouldn't know if stuff scaled that way, I'm certain 30% is a fair number, + nerfs + cloaks + meta gems.

My friend is like " Dude, faction change horde.. We're literally 21-maning garrosh, you could join for free loots.. " After this one more nerf they're all recieving about a 11% FLAT DMG INCREASE. That's like ... they can probably 15 man it now.

Thanks.

[Volitar]

I would rather a small nerf or something, I just really hate the stupid item upgrade system, same with thunderforged. Feels like they just wan't to keep you playing by dangling something in front of your face. Oh you're full heroic BiS? Go Upgrade all your items! Okay so now your full heroic bis with max upgrades? Go get full heroic thunderforge! Full heroic thunderforged?! >.>

[soulkeeperx]

The extra item upgrades really feel like a flat nerf, we went 14/14 hc in one night, we even skipped the 2nd transition on Garrosh lol

[Retsef]

Wow, I hope that this helps my guild's progression. I really do. Seems like it made a massive difference to everyone else.
Of course personally I had 140 VP left before they did the patch, never got the chance to bank some up.

[eErike]

OP: Want to be an asset and bring 4 specs to your guild?
Bring two druids, not one. Honestly.

If you have twice as much gear on a character than normal for raiders (no serious guild requires their players to play 3 different roles, if they do they will ask you to level an alt.) Then it will take twice as long to upgrade it, you went in for the extra mile, now you have to finish it. Have fun

[Captainn]

This item upgrade idea is horrible. It equates to roughly a 12% power increase, can we please just have a blanket nerf to the raid. Personally I'm not happy the contents being nerfed anyway, but that's besides the point. I play four specs on my druid and have spent months getting all my gear sets upgraded and into a Bis / near BiS state. 2 items per week for 64 items to upgrade means it will take 32 weeks for me to finish upgrading my gear. Thats around 7 months.

Please reconsider and blanket nerf the content or remove VP cap so I can atleast go ham and just get it all upgraded.

Nightrise.

EDIT: Something I think a few people have missed out on by directly replying to my OP instead of reading replies throughout the thread is that we cleared SoO a few months back. I also wasn't even taking mainspec gear let alone offspec gear before all the DPS who shared gear with me were decked out in it, so any lootwhore comments seem pretty irrelivant, we're 8 months into Siege. I play four specs for fun, and I do have ranks in all the specs. The change is negative for anyone who plays multiple specs for fun (which there are a fair few). I would rather see content not nerfed atall, however if people insist on a nerf happening I'd rather it blanket nerfed it and removed Cutting Edge than a hidden nerf that does have negative effects on some people.

Also no ones considered the effects on alts, the fact that its likely item level requirements for pugs you'd take your alts to will most likely rise in order for them to have the smoothest run possible. If you have been keeping up with your alts you'll manage, if you wanted to start a new alt you'll be in a state that you could get full heroic non-upgraded gear and be signifigantly behind on gear compared to people in normal gear that is.

I feel you man but I'm really excited about them :/ it sucks how it negatively impacted you but why don't you just focus on the main important spec then go from there? I know it sucks but that's really all you cand o

[Deleted]

There is still time blizz to do that also
We most likely will see blanked nerfs somewhere around 6.0 because of class changes
If they remove valor cap next week we all get bored again

[Deleted]

Ain't gonna happen. No new content until Xmas at least, so it's much better if you have to grind your nerf month after month.
Well, at least that's what blizdevs seem to be thinkin'.