Putin puts troops in western Russia on alert in drill 1.1

[Skroe]

The fuck they were.

Also, like my signature? I wanted to immortalize your stupidity.

Holy shit, Garak said that? For real? I may have to take back my comment towards Hat about stupid comments.

*takes a stiff drink*

I like how he neglects that those "democratic elections" were declared highly fraudulent by international observers. Of course last time we had that conversation, Team Russia went to great lengths to argue that you can't trust international election observers.

[Elim Garak]

(pictures: A Gulag, Stalinist propaganda, crushing of the Hungarian Revolution by Soviet troops, a bread line in 1990)

I don't think a stupider thing has ever been said in the forums.
Typical.
Pictures:
1. German pows working.
2. Uncle Sam propaganda - USSR version
3. Not from 1917, and Hungarians look "really crushed" in the photo.
4. Not a bread line. Meat line.
5. Waiting for pictures from current times.

[Skroe]

He sure did. Though I expect nothing less from a guy who admits to being a Stalinist.

Elim Garak seriously admitted to being a Stalinist too?

What in the blue fuck?

[Elim Garak]

I like how he neglects that those "democratic elections" were declared highly fraudulent by international observers. Of course last time we had that conversation, Team Russia went to great lengths to argue that you can't trust international election observers.

It's funny how in a country that supports Putin like most USA presidents can only dream of - Putin needs to rig elections to get elected. Logic.

[Skroe]

I don't think a stupider thing has ever been said in the forums.
Typical.
Pictures:
1. German pows working.
2. Uncle Sam propaganda - USSR version
3. Not from 1917, and Hungarians look "really crushed" in the photo.
4. Not a bread line. Meat line.
5. Waiting for pictures from current times.

1. No. Gulag
2. No, actually Russian propaganda
3. Not saying it was from 1917. And yes, the Hungarian uprising was completely crushed.
4. It matters? Wanna know what I was doing in 1990? Not waiting for meat in an hours long line.
5. Pictures in current times:





Little green men in Crimea (aka the things people denied were Russian troops until Vladmir Putin said "of course they were!")




The time Russia tried to kill Ukraine's would-be President.



or Poisoned an enemy of Putin's with a radioactive isotope in his food.



Russian Economy by sector in 2013... more energy dependent than ever.



Clearly, things are just fine in the reign of Putin.

[Deleted]

What are you guys even arguing about anymore?

I liked this article : https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/05/10/...raine-conflict

Pretty accurate in the sense that both sides are trying to write a pre-determined narritive.

[Elim Garak]

1. No. Gulag
2. No, actually Russian propaganda
3. Not saying it was from 1917. And yes, the Hungarian uprising was completely crushed.
4. It matters? Wanna know what I was doing in 1990? Not waiting for meat in an hours long line.
5. Pictures in current times:

1. Do you even know what a gulag is? You of everyone should know better not to criticize prison labour in other countries past.
2. USSR propaganda no different from USA's propaganda.
3. Yes you were. You marked that picture with 1917. Photo shows no crushing.
4. Of course it matters. If there's no bread it's more severe of a problem than just meat lines. Just because you got lucky and your country wasn't on its way to collapse - doesn't mean you are allowed to make snide comments about problems people had in such a country.
5. More lies.

The time Russia tried to kill Ukraine's would-be President.

Proof or gtfo.

or Poisoned an enemy of Putin's with a radioactive isotope in his food.

Proof or gtfo

Russian Economy by sector in 2013... more energy dependent than ever.

Don't see anything drastic.

Clearly, things are just fine in the reign of Putin.

They are. Compared to the 90s. Relativity. Study it. Putin is not a magician. But things are improving rapidly.

[Rukentuts]

@Skroesec: And the assassination of that reporter for speaking against Putin. Freedom of the Press yo.

[Tierbook]

USA:

So will we get another thread locked by this bullshit?
I can continue linking historical and irrelevant things all day long.
I might even take it to the seventies with the Kent State Massacre.
Or I can link some modern Abu Ghraib-pictures if you want to take the moral high road.

Well lets see your first picture was slavery, that was ended after a Civil war and if you want to bring that up we can bring up serfdom in Russia correct? no idea what the hell your second picture is though....

[Deleted]

What are you guys even arguing about anymore?

I liked this article : https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/05/10/...raine-conflict

Pretty accurate in the sense that both sides are trying to write a pre-determined narritive.

Propaganda mediatic wars are horrendous.

[Tierbook]

The draft-riots from New York.

That is exactly my point; those things are history.
But Skroesec thinks it's perfectly fine to complain about it, anything to make them out as the bad guys.
Gulags are gone now.
Stalin died in 1953.
The Hungarian Revolution was 60 years ago.
And "bread-lines" are a thing of the past.

Draft Riots and Slavery was over 150 years ago.... also Russia still has majority conscription forces....

[Kellhound]

Draft Riots and Slavery was over 150 years ago.... also Russia still has majority conscription forces....

And having issues with people dodging it right and left....

[Kellhound]

I know it's a long time ago, that's why it is stupid to use it as an argument against the US.
Just like using Stalin against Russia is quite.. let's not get infracted

Well, really, Uncle Joe wasn't Russian.

[Skroe]

I know it's a long time ago, that's why it is stupid to use it as an argument against the US.
Just like using Stalin against Russia is quite.. let's not get infracted

Here's the difference. Let me explain it to you.

When some American far-right nutter says that Blacks were better off under slavery, or some variant thereof, the extreme vast majority of Americans react with revulsion at the very statement. It is manifestly, offensive, horrific and counterfactual. Fortunately the nutters who say this kind of crap are usually white haired rural crazies who believe a host of other crazy things.

Meanwhile in Russia, it was President Vladmir Putin himself who said that the fall of the Soviet Union was the major geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century.

So on one hand you have the American people who are like "boy did we have some really bad old days... let's never go back to them... even thinking about "upsides" so to speak is intrinsically offensive".

On the other hand you have the Russian president, expressing sorry that the bad old days didn't stick around longer.

That is the difference. In an "it was long ago" argument, only one of those two countries, the US actually doesn't want to go rushing back to the horrors of the past.

Russia on the other hand? FP Mag's resident Kremlinologist put it best: Putin was a mid level officer during the fall of the Soviet Union. Mid-level officers tended to blame their superiors for the "betrayal" because these mid-level officers were not in high enough positions to see the endemic failures and contradictions of the Soviet System.

[Haven]

Nope, your Jew analogy doesn't explain why 1) neither Russians nor Ukrainians are hurt in Dnipropetrovsk that has more russian speakers than Odessa, or in Kiev which has 25% russian speakers, 2) unarmed Russians are not hurt in say Lviv, but 3) unarmed Ukrainians are hurt in separatist-dominated areas like Odessa or Donbass.

Much proof. So wow. And again, racial division. It's icomprehensible that an actual Ukrainian may rise against Kiev...

What dam? Have you seen screenshots of North Crimean canal? You don't need a dam for that, you just need to turn off one pumping station.

...and bring a couple of hundreds of sandbags.

Well lets see your first picture was slavery, that was ended after a Civil war and if you want to bring that up we can bring up serfdom in Russia correct? no idea what the hell your second picture is though....

Serfdom in Russia was abolished earlier than slavery in USA

Draft Riots and Slavery was over 150 years ago.... also Russia still has majority conscription forces....

Conscription is an awesome thing. Turns boys into men.

[Deleted]

"Let me explain it for you:"
*follows with mediatic propaganda based on incorrect translation*

Stay classy.

Back on topic, with the hope we stay here.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/#!/content/1.2646544

Reacting to the fighting overnight near Slovyansk, the Russian Foreign Ministry issued a statement condemning what it described as a sharp escalation of violence in eastern Ukraine, and accused Kyiv of using the talks as cover for military operations against its citizens.

The ministry said some people were wounded, but gave no specifics.

Debris from the shooting was visible Saturday morning, including a badly damaged train and craters caused by mortar bombs or other heavy artillery.

Are they shelling the place?

The referendum doesn't have any legal consequences," said Valery Holenko, chairman of the Luhansk regional government. "But it has expressed the will of the people, which cannot be discounted. People genuinely went en masse to the referendum. This was a protest vote."

Holenko said the devolution of powers that the government is offering was no longer enough and that as a first step in appeasing eastern Ukrainians the government has to stop its "anti-terrorist operation" in the east.

Acting Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk, who was often busy with his iPad while some of the eastern lawmakers were making passionate speeches, called on the eastern leaders to resist the armed men and support the government's efforts to devolve powers to the regions.*

the guy really is an inept idiot.
I feel for Ukrainian people to be represented by such a power starved nerd

[Tierbook]

"Let me explain it for you:"
*follows with mediatic propaganda based on incorrect translation*

Stay classy.

Back on topic, with the hope we stay here.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/#!/content/1.2646544


Are they shelling the place?


the guy really is an inept idiot.
I feel for Ukrainian people to be represented by such a power starved nerd

Kinda sounds like your describing Rogozin in that last part

[Cynep]

Much proof. So wow. And again, racial division. It's icomprehensible that an actual Ukrainian may rise against Kiev...

1. What proof, name the cities where Russian-Ukrainian violence happened. Odessa, Mariupol, Kharkiv for a few days, the rest is in Donbass. Any objections above Cybran level? Now, Dnipropetrovsk, a city with a million Russian speakers, never had any Russian-Ukrainian violence. Explain.
My explanation: there is no hatred between normal people in Ukraine, Kremlin failed to incite Yugoslavia-like war.
2. Totally incorrect, hundreds of thousands of actual Ukrainians rose against Kiev this winter during Euromaidan.

- - - Updated - - -

...and bring a couple of hundreds of sandbags.

Yes, you're right here... http://uapress.info/ru/news/show/24003
"Some moscow scientists believe that it's no problem, fresh water can be ferried via airplanes", LOL.
More on canal topic, Russians are already embezzling money in Crimea: http://uapress.info/ru/news/show/25001

- - - Updated - - -

The referendum doesn't have any legal consequences," said Valery Holenko, chairman of the Luhansk regional government. "But it has expressed the will of the people

If they really have asked if people support federalization instead of that moronic independent state, he would be right. Separatists don't want local people to live better, they want Ukraine as a whole to be weak.

[Deleted]

1. What proof, name the cities where Russian-Ukrainian violence happened. Odessa, Mariupol, Kharkiv for a few days, the rest is in Donbass. Any objections above Cybran level? Now, Dnipropetrovsk, a city with a million Russian speakers, never had any Russian-Ukrainian violence. Explain.
My explanation: there is no hatred between normal people in Ukraine, Kremlin failed to incite Yugoslavia-like war.
2. Totally incorrect, hundreds of thousands of actual Ukrainians rose against Kiev this winter during Euromaidan.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, you're right here... http://uapress.info/ru/news/show/24003
"Some moscow scientists believe that it's no problem, fresh water can be ferried via airplanes", LOL.
More on canal topic, Russians are already embezzling money in Crimea: http://uapress.info/ru/news/show/25001

- - - Updated - - -


If they really have asked if people support federalization instead of that moronic independent state, he would be right. Separatists don't want local people to live better, they want Ukraine as a whole to be weak.

And thousands of actual ukrainians are against the against the current government.
Or are you saying those are not ukrainian?

Sure, ALL separatists want is a weaker ukraine.

[Kellhound]

Much proof. So wow. And again, racial division. It's icomprehensible that an actual Ukrainian may rise against Kiev...

...and bring a couple of hundreds of sandbags.



Serfdom in Russia was abolished earlier than slavery in USA

Conscription is an awesome thing. Turns boys into men.

Conscription Russian style leads to barbaric brutality that despite the Army's best effort to end is still rampant.