DPS Balance - Are Locks too OP?

[Deleted]

This, soul swap is unarguably broken as hell.

On everyone complaining about Destruction's AoE being broken - consider an Elemental Shaman that can destroy the meters on Galakras (for example) with ~70% damage coming from Chain Lightning. Destruction does get pretty strong when you have enough targets to cap out on ember regen, but still requires quite a bit of Shadowburn sniping + Havoc to be superior, compared to a single button spam.

Rejoice fellow feral druids. It's okay to be incredibly OP (and do 10% more single target damage than any other class) if only it is difficult to accomplish!
I get where you're coming from though

[striderZA]

Rejoice fellow feral druids. It's okay to be incredibly OP (and do 10% more single target damage than any other class) if only it is difficult to accomplish!
I get where you're coming from though

Can't really argue with a DoC feral about complexity so... :P

[Deleted]

(and do 10% more single target damage than any other class)

Apart from affliction warlocks

[Retsef]

.... only if played well.

I know plenty of Warlocks that aren't all-that-and-then-some.

[Durantye]

.... only if played well.

I know plenty of Warlocks that aren't all-that-and-then-some.

More like if played averagely, if played at an average level still tops meters with blue parses.

[Deleted]

Beg to differ.

That might be true but abilities can do lower number output or can be changed even in live, and we are still in alpha mind you. Blizzard already stated that warlocks are currently OP and intend to nerf them in WoD. If there will be some OP ability because of embers (like healing from ember tap), the ability or even talent can be changed to something else, or nerfed.

Of course warlocks might be OP again. Somebody has to be.

[Deleted]

Warlocks are really strong cleave right now and they happen to have high single target as well, doesn't mean they are overpowered or broken though

[Deleted]

Warlocks are not overpowered in no way, shape or form. They are the most overrated class in the came. Their actual realistic damage output is no where near the widely accepted theoretical output. Their overall damage is actually pretty low compared to mages and priest which are way overtuned this tier. With good RNG fire can outperform any lock by up to 20%

Priest?

[Raiju]

Warlocks are not overpowered in no way, shape or form. They are the most overrated class in the came. Their actual realistic damage output is no where near the widely accepted theoretical output. Their overall damage is actually pretty low compared to mages and priest which are way overtuned this tier. With good RNG fire can outperform any lock by up to 20%

Your mage is a much better player than you.

[Raiju]

Perhaps if my sources of information were that anecdotal but my data comes from actual evaluations rather than personal experience or what the majority assumes which is unreliable and what most of this thread seems to be coming from.

Most of this thread uses actual data that is linked in the thread, p.s. I just checked out the hunter thread where you got called out badly, best you slink off quietly now

[Krillen]

Okay, Yeah and Maybe, have been trolling in every forum they go into, please do not listen to what any of them have to say as they have misleading info which they cant and wont back up. This is potentially confusing new players which, genuine players are trying to help with the game.

[Xyronic]

What are you guys talking about? Warlocks are completely balanced.

[Adhemar]

They should be nerfed!

A bit too late, now. They should have been nerfed two tiers ago.

[Gihelle]

As a warlock player, I agree that warlocks are a tad over the top right now (I don't say a lot because, if that was the case, even terrible players would be topping LFR meters by a long shot). And I would say that our strongest point isn't DPS right now, but survivability. That is definitely over the top, and I wouldn't be surprised if we have nerfs coming our way.

However, if your raid is 30% below the Warlock in DPS in a fight that's not Protectors or maybe Paragons (as the OP is stating), your raid is underperforming. A lot. I'd want to take a look into that before wanting the devs swinging the nerfbat.

And I really, REALLY hope you guys aren't using ranks as a way to tell which class is OP and which class isn't. At this point in this expansion, ranks for all classes are crowded by people in full BiS doing fights with unusual strategies that allows them to do max DPS. I could very likely pull a top 10 world parse for Destruction on Immerseus if I was the only person cleaving adds in the raid (and I've seen that in the logs so, so many times).

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Locks have been broken for this whole expansion

they either did really good/ highdamage, or low LOW damage

They either had too many self heals or died to quickly.

They either had to many CC's not on DR with anything else, or they had nothing

This expansion? Try the last 3 or so, because that's how I've felt.

I've always said that Warlocks are more or less THE sandbox class of WoW, and Blizzard has absolutely no idea what to do with us. They're either too overpowered or close to not viable at all in PvE, always, every single patch. We got lucky this expansion because we didn't hit that low at all, but Cata... yeah...

I like to remember Conflagrate being nerfed after TWENTY-FOUR HOURS back in Ulduar (http://wow.joystiq.com/2009/04/15/hotfixes-for-conflagration-and-ulduar/) as the prime example for this.

[Relapses]

Warlocks are not overpowered in no way, shape or form. They are the most overrated class in the came. Their actual realistic damage output is no where near the widely accepted theoretical output. Their overall damage is actually pretty low compared to mages and priest which are way overtuned this tier. With good RNG fire can outperform any lock by up to 20%

I'm sorry, I'm not even sure you're playing the same game at this point. Maybe in some random garbage guild that is progressing on normal mode Garrosh, but there simply isn't a single fight this tier where a similarly geared Warlock cannot absolutely school a likewise Priest or Mage.

(Subtly hoping this is just a massive troll. In which case, well played.)

[Kraineth]

Rejoice fellow feral druids. It's okay to be incredibly OP (and do 10% more single target damage than any other class) if only it is difficult to accomplish!
I get where you're coming from though

We don't though, Aff Locks and Combat rogues still beat us because they actually have good cooldowns, and fights are never perfect 6/9 minute fights where classes who have crazy cooldowns get balanced out with classes who have no good cooldowns.

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Warlocks are really strong cleave right now and they happen to have high single target as well, doesn't mean they are overpowered or broken though

They are though, and Blizzard has even admitted that they are, but they have also said that it is too late in the tier to bother nerfing Warlocks

[Deleted]

Warlocks are in a very good place atm.

[Pickwickman]

Warlocks are very strong but its not so much their dps that makes them so strong. On singletarget there are plenty of classes that both keep up and beat them.
Warriors, ferals, mages, shaman, rogues etc. It's their insane utility, insane survivabilty and mobility with zero drawbacks and broken aoe.

Like others have said, your lock just happen to be the best dps player you have, im sure he would beat everyone else playing another class equally skillful.
Start logging fights and see how the rest of your team measures up against others of their respective spec and compare how the warlock is doing, sadly, im afraid you'll find out most of them are playing shit, if its that big discrepancy between them.

This post hit the nail on its head.

Please, OP, log a raidnight and don't tell your raiders about it. Log it and link it here, there are many people that can dissect your logs and tell you just what the problem is.

At the moment locks are borderline OP even at medium skill level, and incredibly strong at near perfect skill.

I'd wager that your problem is that your lock is playing at 99% efficiency while your other DPS play at 75%.

A good lock can be 10% higher than the next best DPS even on single target, but 75-100k at the moment is 20-25% which is, for the pack of a netter word, bullshit.

Tour DPS group isn't on your locks skill level, not even near him, if they get blown to bits that hard. (Unless the stated tricks spam from rogues during profs etc.)

[Raiju]

I don't think a post that claims warlocks come behind 5 other classes in single target hits the nail on the head. I don't think anyone is arguing OP's team outside the warlock is likely worse - but it's evident if the warlock were playing another class, he'd probably just sit "neatly" on top of the pack, instead of being noticeably ahead.

[Farabee]

For me, it screams an imbalance, and also a stat weight issue. Mastery seems to be incredibly strong for locks, to the point where all our other DPS (no2 Fire Mage with huge crit etc) seem to be at a huge disadvantage. Even the Frost Mage who can get away with stacking Mastery is nowhere near this guy.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. Locks just keep on getting stronger the more Mastery they dump into the class, and there is no real breakpoint.

Also, destro locks don't have a secondary stat which is totally terrible for them unlike most other DPS classes as all of them synergize well with the spec. Crit boosts ember generation and Chaos Bolt damage, and haste boosts their AOE DPS massively along with the aforementioned ember generation. Meanwhile my ret paladin avoids crit like the plague, and my warrior cringes at haste gear. In a world where primary stats are no longer king, this is a big issue.

Warlocks also arguably have the most complete "toolset" for every fight baked into the class. They get high mobility with demonic circle/teleport and portals, Fel Flame to generate resources when they HAVE to move, the choice to use a pet or not along with pet abilities that offer insane utility on most fights (interrupt while casting, mass dispel, etc) and arguably the least "filler" talents of any class...everything is useful on a fight. Add this to battle rez, healthstones, and the crazy DPS they do as destro/afflic and it's easy to see why Blizz is going to take a giant dump on them in WoD.