I miss the fun I had back in BC :(

[wych]

This is so far from accurate I don't even know where to start.

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Re-read what he said. He actually said the opposite of what you're implying. He's saying its good you can play end game at multiple skill or commitment levels.

He's also implying that you needed to be some kind of uber nerd to enjoy end game in Vanilla and TBC, which is complete bollocks and the usual argument people fall back on who can't handle people doing something they aren't capable of.

[grexly75]

You're not having fun anymore because all of your friends quit along with the community you loved. It's who you play with that dictates how fun the game can be. WHen you're playing by yourself....then yeah.

1000% exactly this, it makes no matter what game you go to it will always be the same..

[gamingmuscle]

Besides raiding...where is there more stuff to do? Hopefully you do not mean pet battles? Seriously, I cannot find examples where there is more to do than what BC offered, please enlighten me.

From the tone, I get that you don't like pet battles. But you still just proved my point to be true. LOL

Then you have that tillers farm thing, and world bosses again, transmog. Probably other stuff. I mostly just raid.

[Grogo]

Ah the classic

"anybody who's above me is a no life nerd"
"anybody who's worse than me is a nothing scrub"

argument.


Yeah, you're chatting shit. I managed to kill Illidan and get into Sunwell in TBC without needing to dedicate my life to the game.

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The leveling in vanilla felt more "free", and more like a journey than now.

It felt like an open world where you could do what you wanted when you wanted.


Now it's:
-Enter zone A
-On rails through a quest line until end
-Probably don't see end anyway as you outlevel zone

I felt a lot more freedom with my leveling in Vanilla, now it's just Blizzard pushing players from quest line to quest line. The game feels more like CoD now where you're just pushed down a tunnel constantly, player choice is very very small now compared to what it used to be, the RPG feeling isn't as strong now.

This is pretty close to how I feel as well.

[Deleted]

The leveling in vanilla felt more "free", and more like a journey than now.

It felt like an open world where you could do what you wanted when you wanted.


Now it's:
-Enter zone A
-On rails through a quest line until end
-Probably don't see end anyway as you outlevel zone

I felt a lot more freedom with my leveling in Vanilla, now it's just Blizzard pushing players from quest line to quest line. The game feels more like CoD now where you're just pushed down a tunnel constantly, player choice is very very small now compared to what it used to be, the RPG feeling isn't as strong now.

Pretty much this.

The world was more open and free. There were far more RPG elements to the game as well. Everything today is on track and everything got phasing, because you don't need people anymore.

I so damn miss the class quests like Shaman totem quests, Warrior stance quests, Druid form quests, Warlock pet/mount quests, Paladin mount quest, etc.

The cool thing you could do with Zul'Farrak, by gathering the scepter from Hinterlands to summon an additional boss at the altar in Zul'Farrak. As well as Maraudon, doing the scepter quest to be able to open a portal to inner Maraudon.

The key quest from Blackrock Depths, you had to be dead to be able to pick it up.

Just stuff like that. The game just had so much more to it. A lot more soul.

[Zuben]

TBC was the dullest point for me after Cata.

[Pua]

The world was more open and free. There were far more RPG elements to the game as well. Everything today is on track and everything got phasing, because you don't need people anymore.

I so damn miss the class quests like Shaman totem quests, Warrior stance quests, Druid form quests, Warlock pet/mount quests, Paladin mount quest, etc.

The cool thing you could do with Zul'Farrak, by gathering the scepter from Hinterlands to summon an additional boss at the altar in Zul'Farrak. As well as Maraudon, doing the scepter quest to be able to open a portal to inner Maraudon.

The key quest from Blackrock Depths, you had to be dead to be able to pick it up.

Just stuff like that. The game just had so much more to it. A lot more soul.

I think you largely won the thread with this post.

People going back and trying vanilla or TBC again are forgetting that they've now become indoctrinated by the gaming paradigm where the designers tell you exactly what to do, and you do it. No more thinking, no more imagination, no more choice.

No more soul.

[mvaliz]

I never found BC really that fun. Better than Vanilla, but the fun faded real fast for me for some reason... probably all the emphasis on end-game raiding.

Now, Wrath I had a blast! Second closest to that would be Pandaria! ^_^

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I think you largely won the thread with this post.

People going back and trying vanilla or TBC again are forgetting that they've now become indoctrinated by the gaming paradigm where the designers tell you exactly what to do, and you do it. No more thinking, no more imagination, no more choice.

No more soul.

Bullspit

Honestly I feel in Pandaria I've had more free thought, free will to play how I want, more imaginative and immersive roleplaying and WAAAAY more choices than I did in Vanilla.

Unless you've limited YOUR idea of "imagination/choices/thinking" to involve a tiny microcosm called 5-man dungeons and raids. If so, i offer you my sympathies and suggest broadening your horizons a bit.

[Pua]

Bullspit

Honestly I feel in Pandaria I've had more free thought, free will to play how I want, more imaginative and immersive roleplaying and WAAAAY more choices than I did in Vanilla.

Unless you've limited YOUR idea of "imagination/choices/thinking" to involve a tiny microcosm called 5-man dungeons and raids. If so, i offer you my sympathies and suggest broadening your horizons a bit.

I expected better of you than that, mvallas. You're a good poster, let's not dive into petty insults about sympathies, eh?

My point is that there's no choice in the individual activities you do anymore. None. Sure, there are more of them; but whether you want to choose professions, quests, dungeons, raids, the Brawler's Guild, scenarios... It makes no difference. "Depth", as an objective term, is the amount of ways in which you can do something successfully. Nowadays, there's no depth in the game - you either do what the designers have intended you to do or you don't succeed. At best, a hotfix will be applied to stop you doing whatever you were doing and, at worst, you'll be banned for deliberate exploiting.

Startlingly, the only part of the game nowadays that has any depth is probably pet battles. Perhaps that goes a long way to explaining why they've ended up so popular.

[finskee]

My point is that there's no choice in the individual activities you do anymore. None.

How do we accept the validity of your claim when you start your point with such an obvious exaggeration?

Sure, there are more of them; but whether you want to choose professions, quests, dungeons, raids, the Brawler's Guild, scenarios... It makes no difference. "Depth", as an objective term, is the amount of ways in which you can do something successfully. Nowadays, there's no depth in the game - you either do what the designers have intended you to do or you don't succeed. At best, a hotfix will be applied to stop you doing whatever you were doing and, at worst, you'll be banned for deliberate exploiting.

Are you saying for real that back in BC, when the devs made you jump through tiny hoops just to get into raids, that you had more choices back then in how to gear up? I think it is safe to say there were more hotfixes to exploits in BC and Vanilla than in any other time since. This is again more exaggerations. Notice I am purposely avoiding the word nostalgia just for you.

Startlingly, the only part of the game nowadays that has any depth is probably pet battles. Perhaps that goes a long way to explaining why they've ended up so popular.

Really?

[Pua]

How do we accept the validity of your claim when you start your point with such an obvious exaggeration?

Let’s not start with “we”. You’re asking for yourself, and not some group that you think agrees with you. And with that out of the way, let me put a little more meat on the bones of what I’m saying.

Are you saying for real that back in BC, when the devs made you jump through tiny hoops just to get into raids, that you had more choices back then in how to gear up? I think it is safe to say there were more hotfixes to exploits in BC and Vanilla than in any other time since. This is again more exaggerations.

I’m saying that you need to look at the whole game a little more holistically, rather than talking about the number of exploit fixes. For example, talk about dungeons; in Outland, five-man content was substantially harder than it is now, which means that it lasted longer and was viable endgame for more people. In fact, we could argue that it was the default endgame during vanilla, what with the puzzle-solving aspects that went into places like Stratholme, the Scholomance, Blackrock Spire/Depths and Maraudon not forgetting the time required to actually complete such places.

Raids have also become far more akin to arcade games rather than problem-solving MMO encounters. Remember that “depth” is effectively the number of ways in which you can do something, but raid encounters are now designed with a very obvious plan in mind, and deviation from said plan simply isn’t viable any more – you either do the encounter the way the designers tell you, or you don’t complete it.

Putting a group together used to have depth. You could prioritize buffs and compositions depending on your better players, but now it’s simply a case of picking up a few classes to cover eight buffs and then getting on with it. It’s also worth noting that most encounters where groups have difficulty nowadays are almost always sorted out with more DPS. Not better or smarter healing, a different tanking strategy or better mechanic management, it’s literally “drop healers for more deeps and complete the gimmick”.

Challenging, yes, but no depth.

Professions are an obvious example. Specializations used to be a fun part of professions that allowed those who’d invested more time to develop high-quality gear, specific to them, that others couldn’t necessarily have. Sets with bonuses could be built, and much of it lasted a lot longer than blue gear does nowadays because it’s simply discarded and gotten rid of.

I could go on, but I’m already veering most verbose. Each individual activity in the game is being railed and having its depth removed because this team doesn’t really understand what “depth” is.

Notice I am purposely avoiding the word nostalgia just for you.

How about avoiding it because it’s utterly irrelevant? There were many, many different design philosophies in Outland compared to Pandaria. Arguing otherwise is objectively wrong.

Really?

Yes, really. Pet battles have done extremely well in Pandaria because players can access them in an almost limitless number of ways. If you have a favourite pet, you can almost always find a team to fit them into and the competitive nature of them means that you can always come up against players or teams that cause you to check what you’ve got and use what works.

Depth.

[Cute Chen]

Sense of Accomplishment

that is what it is you are missing, and it is pretty much gone from WoW at this point. when everything in the game is handed out in easy-mode format the feeling you get even when defeating a new boss has changed from "HELL YES WE GOT THAT BASTARD DOWN!!" to killing a heroic boss and feeling like "meh, we've already killed him on 3 other difficulties, whoop-di-fucking-do"

Ah, memories. Wrath of the Lich King was the last expansion when, after my guild would defeat a boss, our vent would erupt with cheers and nerd-screams. From Cataclysm forward, it's just "Damn, no good drops. Okay, what's this next guy do?". It also doesn't help that they've basically run out of ideas for boss encounters. Every new boss' moves are just a variation of an older boss, or a combination of two or three.

[Kootur]

Then i strongly recomend you try out wildstar it should come out this june

Wildstar is a stupid clone. It's mmo du jour and will fail like rift, tera and swtor.

[Pua]

Wildstar is a stupid clone. It's mmo du jour and will fail like rift, tera and swtor.

Have you played it?

Did you play Rift, Tera or Star Wars?

[Farora]

normal/lfr/flex don't count........ just their existence puts raiding miles BEHIND where the game was AT LAUNCH

Indeed. Raiding is diminished thanks to all the different modes. Prestige raiders had in vanilla and BC is gone.

[dd614]

These people are true fanboys who will perform all sorts of mental gymnastics to justify their point.

Think the game used to be better? You actually don't, you're just blinded by nostalgia.

The fall in subs coincides with the change in the game's design towards pandering to casuals? Massive correlation doesn't prove anything/something something bell curve/the game still has 7 million subs!/subs don't matter for the quality of the game! (delete as appropriate)

It really is mental gymnastics at this point, great post. It just pisses me off when a poster says they miss TBC and preferred the game the way it was, you see a horde of angry replies about how they're wrong. How can their opinion be wrong?