KJC change in WoD Alpha test

[Didrah]

This change doesnt make any sense at all. GC once said that the same talent with a 1min CD would be useless and never be taken... we all agreed... and now they do this.

Completely uninspired / lazyass change IMO. I think the whole lvl 90 tree needs a complete rework but I doubt they'll do that after saying that warlocks have had their fair share of changes over the MOP timelapse.

Anyways... sad.

[Deleted]

Completely uninspired / lazyass change IMO. I think the whole lvl 90 tree needs a complete rework but I doubt they'll do that after saying that warlocks have had their fair share of changes over the MOP timelapse.

Couldn't agree more, not all changes / attention given is a positive.
I'll constantly harp on about how I feel MOP changed far too much with affliction for no good reason and our final talent tier has been a complete mess from the start, mostly because none of the talents are similar enough in role - they're all damage increases but in such radically different ways that they always end up being a case of 1 talent overshadowing the other 2 because they're so niche as to be useless.

[Jessicka]

https://twitter.com/WatcherDev/statu...47567710457856

What can I say, sometimes we just like to do pirouettes. All casters are losing some DPS on the move; different environment now.

Ugh, pirouettes that bring us back to an allready rejected plan from the previous beta? He's a lousy ballerina then.

Not to mention the fact that Destro locks are going to lose far more then "some DPS" as things stand now. They'll be bottom of the barrel on any movement fight. Resource production will dip, chance to get Chaos Bolts off will be smaller. Spec will probably struggle when learning the fight and not be used on progression cause movement planning is so important.

It makes me wonder what made them say that we needed to lose KJC. It must mean we did too well in their internal testing. Let's hope their internal testing shows that the current solution isn't going to cut it too.

Actually, SWG will allow Destruction to cast Chaos Bolts and Fears on the move again. These were a big part of the reasoning behind the nerf in the first place, and they've just put them right back in the game. It's just part and parcel of how they forget why they change things to begin with. This is a change that's going to mostly affect the overwhelming majority of Warlocks who just play casually; it deserves a ton more consideration than just copy pasting over someone elses ability.

Further, they talk of cutting mobility from all casters; yet Fire is already one of the most capable, mobile caster specs in the game thanks to it's plethora of instant casts, and they're giving it perks and changing the 90 talents up to improve that further. Almost as crazy as Mind Harvest will be for Shadow grabbing Orbs from adds for massive DP uptime.

[Tya]

What are they even doing with warlocks.

Every patch sees a total playstyle change.

Every expansion changes the entire class completely, leaving nothing left of what originally drew people to play it.

Where is the consistency?

[Count Zero]

I think every dps should have something they can cast while moving. It just feels a lot better to have something to attack with while moving, even if it's like half the dpet of your normal filler.

Either they make the encounters require less movement, or they tone down enrage timers to account for the lower dps (and Hunters top meters on most fights).

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, tho - clearly Blizz doesn't agree encounters are more fun with us not being limited by movement. I like having to move often while still dpsing to maximum potential. I think current KJC works well ... you still need to find the time to hard-cast Chaos Bolt / Haunt / Drain Soul / Soulfire. I just don't see how it's going to be more or even just as fun, to both have a simplified set of abilities as well as not needing to dps on the move (since we won't be able to, except for 15 seconds out of every 2 minutes, if we take new KJC).

Why can't they just do something to make melee less penalized for target switching ? Although they already have to dodge way less stuff than casters do. How hard could it be to give melee something like, "Performing no attacks for (however many) seconds generates (x) (resource). This effect cannot occur more than once every (however many) seconds". Done. Penalty for running to switch targets is mitigated.

Instead of bringing everyone up, they're bringing some down. But, again, they seem to think it'll be for the best ... and I'll have to reserve ultimate judgement until I see things in action. But I'm really having a hard time seeing how both trimming abilities as well as reducing movement will make things more fun, or even keep things as fun.

[sugarfree]

It's just stupid that casters (except healers) are not given some tools to cast while moving, something spammable. Melee can get ranged attacks and can attack while on the move, so why is it that casters have to remain stationary in PvP??????

[Soulzar]

This is probably a stupid idea, but what about replacing KJCs talent with a new one that has the following effects:

KJC (Aff/Demo): Casting Life Tap grants 10% movement speed for 6 seconds and reduces the cost and mana return by 15%, stacking 3 times.

I like the Aff/Demo version, great idea so long as it stacks with Burning Rush. Lifetap was always the go to global while adjusting position. Lifetap being core to Locks, its a nice thing to buff to reward smart usage.

Destro I would like to see get a proc back like Improved Soul Fire from the Imp Machine gun days. One thing I really enjoy on my Boomkin and Ele sham are the proc to react to. This gives minimal help to movement with RNG instant procs, though not a total solution. I personally have not missed Searing Pain, though I have Soulfire.

[Gihelle]

Kil'jaeden's Cunning
Passive: Each time you cast [Malefic Grasp / Shadow Bolt / Incinerate], gain a charge of Kil'jaeden's Cunning, allowing you to cast your next [Malefic Grasp / Shadow Bolt / Incinerate] while moving. Maximum 5 charges.
Active: Consume 5 charges of Kil'jaeden's Cunning to conjure a Fiendish Illusion, which continues to cast [Malefic Grasp / Shadow Bolt / Incinerate] on your target for 20 sec. 2 min cooldown.

Archimonde's Darkness
Passive: Each time you cast [Malefic Grasp / Shadow Bolt / Incinerate], gain a charge of Archimonde's Darkness, increasing your Spellpower by 1%. Maximum of 5 charges.
Active: Consume 5 charges of Archimonde's Darkness to conjure a Dark Effigy of your target which persists for 15 sec. All damage dealt to the Dark Effigy is increased by 5% and redirected to the original target. 3 min cooldown

Mannoroth's Fury
Passive: Each time you cast [Malefic Grasp / Shadow Bolt / Incinerate], gain a charge of Mannoroth's Fury, increasing the radius of your [Seed of Corruption / Hellfire / Rain of Fire] by 100%. Maximum 5 charges.
Active: Consume 5 charges of Mannoroth's Fury to conjures a Cataclysm at the target location, dealing 500% of Spellpower as Shadowflame damage to all enemies within 50 yards, and applying [Corruption / Immolate]. 60 sec cooldown

I actually like those ideas far, far better than any iterations that our lv90 talents ever had. I linked those to Watcher/Celestalon on twitter, probably they'll just ignore it as usual but hey, it's worth a try.
Maybe tone down KJC to 3 charges (but make it able to go to 5 to summon the Effigy) and tone down MF's Spellpower values, but those are far more interesting and engaging. Good job.

[a C e]

Could this work for Destro?

While moving your Rain of Fire Ticks has a X% chance of procing Backlash ( there will be no need to use ROF while standing because it wont proc backlash )

[andromalia]

It's just stupid that casters (except healers) are not given some tools to cast while moving, something spammable. Melee can get ranged attacks and can attack while on the move, so why is it that casters have to remain stationary in PvP??????

People's patch note reading is like my wife's hearing...very selective. Healing also got a pretty big mobility hit. Here's one example of many:
Wild Growth (Restoration) now has a 1.5-second cast time (up from instant cast).

More because I'm really bored at work:
Prayer of Mending now has a 1.5-second cast time (up from instant cast).
Cascade now has a 1.5-second cast time (up from instant cast).
Divine Star now has a 1.5-second cast time (up from instant cast).
Halo now has a 1.5-second cast time (up from instant cast).

[Dastey]

Could this work for Destro?

While moving your Rain of Fire Ticks has a X% chance of procing Backlash ( there will be no need to use ROF while standing because it wont proc backlash )

On AOE though you would be moving after you cast conflagrate sometimes getting free proccs

[Deathgoose]

Maybe KJC, instead of being a SWG clone CD, should just be changed to re-add Fel Flame?

[traumabrew]

Remember for 5.4, a solid, logical and rational warlock community had a big role in shaping the KJC changes then and can do so now. Also, remember this is alpha and we do not have a beta to play with these changes yet.

At the beginning of an expansion it is easier for the dev's to make changes like these and compensate for them with the design of the game. In MoP, almost every encounter required a lot of movement. Changing how a class plays in regards to mobility is difficult because the raid design team probably had 80% of the raid mechanics designed at that time. Now, it is a clean slate. They knew they were going to reign in mobility from the start so they hopefully will design encounters that compliment class abilities. But we will need to see the beta in order to determine how the class will play. In MoP, we knew how the changes in 5.4 were going to affect gameplay because we knew what the previous 2 tiers were like and could safely assume that SoO would be similar.

I also understand where the players are coming from. It feels as if this expansion is taking a lot away from players that we have grown accustomed to such as being able to fly once you hit level cap, item squish, "button bloat", snapshotting, etc.

I will wait and see how the beta plays before I get up in arms about the KJC change. But based on past experiences, a 2 min CD is too much. a 1 min CD seems fair. Also, they need to have some type of instant cast ability besides conflag or remove the charges to conflag (which makes it a fire version of FF).

- - - Updated - - -

Just re read the patch notes and:

•Kil'jaeden's Cunning You can cast Drain Soul, Incinerate and Shadow Bolt while moving. Warlock - LvL 90 Talent. Calls upon the cunning of Kil'jaeden to permit movement while casting Warlock spells. This spell may be cast while casting other spells. Lasts 15 sec. Warlock - LvL 90 Talent. Instant. 2 min cooldown.

So is it only usable with drain soul, incinerate and shadow bolt? If so, this talent will be poor. But as I said, lets see how it plays in beta

[pokeadott]

No KjC. No Fel Flame. No Destro PvP. No Fun.

On a related note, do they look at the big picture when implementing their "casters need to cast [stand still] more"? When we were standing still and turreting out Shadowbolts, we were barely moving at all in raids. Encounters today are more dynamic than ever, and they are trending even higher in complexity as the game evolves. Does a return to the past make sense given the state of the game they are developing around?

Very disappointed in these changes. There is a significant negative impact on fun for me.

[Socialhealer]

WELCOME TO THE SHAMAN WORLD BITCHES!

no really this makes it fair.

[Deleted]

- - - Updated - - -

Just re read the patch notes and:

•Kil'jaeden's Cunning You can cast Drain Soul, Incinerate and Shadow Bolt while moving. Warlock - LvL 90 Talent. Calls upon the cunning of Kil'jaeden to permit movement while casting Warlock spells. This spell may be cast while casting other spells. Lasts 15 sec. Warlock - LvL 90 Talent. Instant. 2 min cooldown.

So is it only usable with drain soul, incinerate and shadow bolt? If so, this talent will be poor. But as I said, lets see how it plays in beta

It's in red because that's what's been removed. They changed it from allowing permanent casting of those spells to the 15 sec duration, 2 min CD.

[Socialhealer]

snip
Something like that, maybe.

what a joke you cast too much incinerate you'd rarely ever be out of charges and be fully mobile.

[Dnusha]

Just re read the patch notes and:

•Kil'jaeden's Cunning You can cast Drain Soul, Incinerate and Shadow Bolt while moving. Warlock - LvL 90 Talent. Calls upon the cunning of Kil'jaeden to permit movement while casting Warlock spells. This spell may be cast while casting other spells. Lasts 15 sec. Warlock - LvL 90 Talent. Instant. 2 min cooldown.

So is it only usable with drain soul, incinerate and shadow bolt? If so, this talent will be poor. But as I said, lets see how it plays in beta

Dude, Red color - previous build, green color - new build.

[sugarfree]

People's patch note reading is like my wife's hearing...very selective. Healing also got a pretty big mobility hit. Here's one example of many:
Wild Growth (Restoration) now has a 1.5-second cast time (up from instant cast).

More because I'm really bored at work:
Prayer of Mending now has a 1.5-second cast time (up from instant cast).
Cascade now has a 1.5-second cast time (up from instant cast).
Divine Star now has a 1.5-second cast time (up from instant cast).
Halo now has a 1.5-second cast time (up from instant cast).

Read where I said EXCEPT HEALERS. Because I am quite aware of the mobility nerfs they received.

[Deleted]

This will suck so hard in PvP.
Melee will make a meatloaf out of all warlocks, looks even worse then cata for us locks.
I have a hard time seeing warlocks remotely viable in PvP after this and the removal of fel flame and the CC reduction + diminishing returns.
It will indeed be intredusting to see how beta plays out and i think this sort of gameplay is indeed dumbibg the game down alot, with almost nothing to cast while beeing traind by warrior/dk/pally/rouge/monk.
Warlocks will be like elly shammys that need a babysitter 24/7.

I think these changes will mean, spam everything while its not on cd, in that case its beeing dumbed down alot.